[nabs-l] Asking People to Write Off List Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Fri Mar 23 04:25:11 UTC 2012

I truly appreciate that there's someone on this list to ask this kind
of questions!!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 11:55 PM, "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home"
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

> Before you ask people to write to you off list, do you try writing to them off list first?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Wow!
> I think Jews, (depending on which group,) believe the same thing.
> BTW, Beth, will you be at convention, this year?
> Please E-mail me offlist.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
>> any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
>> Beth
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
>> they are
>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
>> want one for
>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
>> dogs can
>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
>> However, there is
>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
>> don't like it
>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
>> height,
>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
>> hard for
>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
>> squarely in
>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
>> Even
>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
>> true
>> story.
>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
>> of
>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
>> is
>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
>> most
>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
>> being,
>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
>> other
>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
>> go
>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
>> even
>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
>> our
>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
>> this:
>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off
>> conversation.
>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
>> will
>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
>> casual
>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
>> walk
>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
>> requests
>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
>> blindness
>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
>> courting
>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
>> there
>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
>> parties
>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
>> your
>> blind however, all bets are off.
>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
>> have a
>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful
>> in
>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
>> Arielle
>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
>> be
>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
>> as a
>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
>> come
>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
>> ideas
>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
>> decide to
>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
>> so
>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
>> person
>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
>> than
>> mere visual acuity.
>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
>> your
>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
>> something
>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
>> means. Be
>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
>> local
>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
>> parties. But
>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
>> ends
>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
>> and
>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
>> the
>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
>> you do
>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
>> thing
>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
>> experience of
>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
>> because
>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
>> they
>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
>> who
>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
>> perspective.
>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
>> among
>> them all.
>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
>> reference
>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features
>> of
>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
>> chic,
>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
>> Because I
>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
>> some
>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>> Sincerely,
>> Mary
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>> blind people
>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>> person.
>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>> Take care,
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>> own
>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
>> online. As a
>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
>> and he
>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>> and I
>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>> some of
>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>> and
>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
>> disastrous
>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>> actually
>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>> were
>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
>> us
>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>> could
>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
>> that was
>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
>> of
>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>> was
>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>> person
>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>> met
>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>> sites. I
>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>> opinion,
>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>> things
>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>> most
>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider
>> when
>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>> share in
>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>> sighted
>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>> it
>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
>> most of
>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
>> online, and
>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>> said,
>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>> from a
>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more
>> understanding
>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>> other
>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>> completely
>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>> their
>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>> such
>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>> can
>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>> to
>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>> was on
>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>> didn't
>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>> the
>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>> first
>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>> blindness was
>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>> find
>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>> public
>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>> profile up
>> and seeing what happens.
>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>> my
>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>> sites.
>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>> and
>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>> attractive
>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>> the
>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>> hence
>> are better catches.
>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>> during
>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>> profiles,
>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>> at some
>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>> and
>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>> before
>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>> when
>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>> happen at
>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>> would
>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>> get to
>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>> have done
>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>> person
>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>> thinking.
>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>> the
>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>> blind. I
>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>> was
>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>> what
>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>> my
>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>> relationship I
>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>> with the
>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>> think
>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>> blindness
>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>> interests and
>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>> us
>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>> there
>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>> passions
>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>> I
>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>> to
>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>> singles'
>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>> your
>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>> division,
>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>> better
>> way to build lasting connections.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>> simply for
>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>> like
>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>> general
>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>> etc
>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>
>> Later.
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Hello Robin,
>>
>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>> learn
>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>> others.
>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>> Not
>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>> and
>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>> options,
>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>> being
>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>> people
>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
>> necessarily
>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>> etc
>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>> questions.
>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>> willing
>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>> not
>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>> that
>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>> (whether online or not).
>>
>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>> your
>> dating search.
>>
>> Nimer J
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>> that
>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>> you meet
>> them, they're a criminal.
>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>> yes,
>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>> would
>> be
>> very
>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>> as
>> they
>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>> find
>> that
>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>> feel
>> that
>> is
>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>> a
>> daily
>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>> found
>> there
>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
>> when
>> they
>> are
>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>> sited
>> person
>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello to everyone,
>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>> dating
>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>> you
>> had
>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>> forward to
>> hearing your stories.
>>
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>> Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> like a
>> breeze
>>
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
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>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>> machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>> machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
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>> --
>> Mary Fernandez
>> Emory 2012
>> "Do I dare
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>> --
>> T.S. Eliot
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