[nabs-l] Asking People to Write Off List Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Fri Mar 23 05:54:57 UTC 2012

I also think it is funny when someone rights:

I emailed you, did you get it? I have not gotten a reply from you.
Please email me off list.

Or something along this line. And then a few days later a simular
email goes out again from the same person and you can tell that the
person for whom the messages aare for most likely are ignoring the
person requesting the contact.

On 3/23/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
> I truly appreciate that there's someone on this list to ask this kind
> of questions!!!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 11:55 PM, "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home"
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>
>> Before you ask people to write to you off list, do you try writing to them
>> off list first?
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester"
>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Wow!
>> I think Jews, (depending on which group,) believe the same thing.
>> BTW, Beth, will you be at convention, this year?
>> Please E-mail me offlist.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
>>> any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
>>> they are
>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
>>> want one for
>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
>>> dogs can
>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
>>> However, there is
>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
>>> don't like it
>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>
>>> Nicole
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
>>> height,
>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
>>> hard for
>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
>>> squarely in
>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
>>> Even
>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
>>> true
>>> story.
>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
>>> of
>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
>>> is
>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
>>> most
>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
>>> being,
>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
>>> other
>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
>>> go
>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
>>> even
>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
>>> our
>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
>>> this:
>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off
>>> conversation.
>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
>>> will
>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
>>> casual
>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
>>> walk
>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
>>> requests
>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
>>> blindness
>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
>>> courting
>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
>>> there
>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
>>> parties
>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
>>> your
>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
>>> have a
>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful
>>> in
>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
>>> Arielle
>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
>>> be
>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
>>> as a
>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
>>> come
>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
>>> ideas
>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
>>> decide to
>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
>>> so
>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
>>> person
>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
>>> than
>>> mere visual acuity.
>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
>>> your
>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
>>> something
>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
>>> means. Be
>>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
>>> local
>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
>>> parties. But
>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
>>> ends
>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
>>> and
>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
>>> the
>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
>>> you do
>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
>>> thing
>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
>>> experience of
>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
>>> because
>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
>>> they
>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
>>> who
>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
>>> perspective.
>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
>>> among
>>> them all.
>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
>>> reference
>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features
>>> of
>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
>>> chic,
>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
>>> Because I
>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
>>> some
>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Mary
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>> blind people
>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>> person.
>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>> Take care,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>> own
>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
>>> online. As a
>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
>>> and he
>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>> and I
>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>> some of
>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>> and
>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
>>> disastrous
>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>> actually
>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>> were
>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
>>> us
>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>> could
>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
>>> that was
>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
>>> of
>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>> was
>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>> person
>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>> met
>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>> sites. I
>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>> opinion,
>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>> things
>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>> most
>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider
>>> when
>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>> share in
>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>> sighted
>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>> it
>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
>>> most of
>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
>>> online, and
>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>> said,
>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>> from a
>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more
>>> understanding
>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>> other
>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>> completely
>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>> their
>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>> such
>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>> can
>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>> to
>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>> was on
>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>> didn't
>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>> the
>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>> first
>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>> blindness was
>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>> find
>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>> public
>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>> profile up
>>> and seeing what happens.
>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>> my
>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>> sites.
>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>> and
>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>> attractive
>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>> the
>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>> hence
>>> are better catches.
>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>> during
>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>> profiles,
>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>> at some
>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>> and
>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>> before
>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>> when
>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>> happen at
>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>> would
>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>> get to
>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>> have done
>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>> person
>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>> thinking.
>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>> the
>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>> blind. I
>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>> was
>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>> what
>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>> my
>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>> relationship I
>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>> with the
>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>> think
>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>> blindness
>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>> interests and
>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>> us
>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>> there
>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>> passions
>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>> I
>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>> to
>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>> singles'
>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>> your
>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>> division,
>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>> better
>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>> simply for
>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>> like
>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>> general
>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>> etc
>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello Robin,
>>>
>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>> learn
>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>> others.
>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>> Not
>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>> and
>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>> options,
>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>> being
>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>> people
>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
>>> necessarily
>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>> etc
>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>> questions.
>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>> willing
>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>> not
>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>> that
>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>> (whether online or not).
>>>
>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>> your
>>> dating search.
>>>
>>> Nimer J
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>> that
>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>> you meet
>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>> yes,
>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>> would
>>> be
>>> very
>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>> as
>>> they
>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>> find
>>> that
>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>> feel
>>> that
>>> is
>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>> a
>>> daily
>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>> found
>>> there
>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
>>> when
>>> they
>>> are
>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>> sited
>>> person
>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello to everyone,
>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>> dating
>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>> you
>>> had
>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>> forward to
>>> hearing your stories.
>>>
>>>
>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>> Perhaps
>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>> like a
>>> breeze
>>>
>>> among flowers.
>>> Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>> recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>> contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>> or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>> machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>> system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>> XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>> news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>> (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>> recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>> contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>> or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>> machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>> system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>> XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>> news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>> (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> Emory 2012
>>> "Do I dare
>>> Disturb the universe?
>>> In a minute there is time
>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>> --
>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>
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