[nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

[Beth]

Chris,
You didn't exactly cross the line.  I appreciate the defense of 
Islam even if you haven't been one yourself.  Someone like Deq 
doesn't like dogs, won't mess with dogs, won't even get a guide 
dog.  Here's an example of why dogs are whatever they are in 
Islam: I had a Somali friend come with me to take me home from 
the mosque one fine Friday.  Then, the upstairs neighbor's pet 
Shi Tzu came over because apparently, I had accidentally called 
out to her.  My friend drew back, going, "Oh no, a dog."  I had 
to reassure my friend that the dog was no harm, and she probably 
is a good guard dog at that.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Yes, because that's her religion and that's what she believes in.
She freely chose to convert to Islam, and that's incidentally
what they believe.  Beth, if I'm stepping over the line in trying
to defend you, please let me know! :)

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:22:35 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Would you give up on all the benefits of having a guide dog just
because at some point a long time ago someone decided that dogs
arr
not pure...?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
wrote:

 For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want
or any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
 Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

 I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
they are
 not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
want one for
 this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
dogs can
 sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
However, there is
 of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs
don't like it
 when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

 Nicole

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello All,
 This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.
First,
 dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard
for
 someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
height,
 someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be
hard for
 anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
squarely in
 the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
Even
 geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
true
 story.
 I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
of
 mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon,
is
 that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
most
 people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
being,
 who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which,
like
 Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
other
 hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone
and go
 on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making
ourselves even
 more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
our
 self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
this:
 Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
 If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
 though not always, make a comment which will spark off
conversation.
 If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation
she will
 angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
 stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
casual
 touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
 Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman
walk
 into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
requests
 to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed
to
 enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
blindness
 will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal
courting
 sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't
there
 before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
 instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at
parties
 and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out
your
 blind however, all bets are off.
 This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
have a
 dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly
successful in
 dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like
Arielle
 and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
be
 irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and
consider as a
 potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that
come
 into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
 intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
 parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
ideas
 they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
decide to
 stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are
so
 incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from
each
 other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
 thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
person
 despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
than
 mere visual acuity.
 So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
 explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
your
 into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
something
 I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
means.  Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
local
 bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
parties.  But
 most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for
a
 sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never
ends
 well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
 completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full
happy and
 fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
the
 sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But,
you do
 learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
thing
 we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the
experience of
 friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
because
 it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since
they
 have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind
people who
 think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
 experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
perspective.
 All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones
among
 them all.
 A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
reference
 to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best
features of
 yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
chic,
 when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
Because I
 have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get
some
 delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
 Sincerely,
 Mary

 On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm gonna way in on this topic.
 My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
blind people
 growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
person.
 We've met in person twice and it's been great.
 Take care,
 Doug

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello all,
 Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
own
 experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
online.  As a
 matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
and he
 is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now,
and I
 have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that
some of
 what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
and
 bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
disastrous
 because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we
actually
 got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
were
 present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
us
 being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
could
 meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
that was
 a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
of
 another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
 actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
was
 hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
person
 besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also
met
 sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
sites.  I
 met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
opinion,
 that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
things
 in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
most
 people have said already, one of the main things to consider
when
 dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
share in
 common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a
sighted
 person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
 sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because
I
 haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in
person
 mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore
it
 really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and
we
 mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
most of
 these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends
online, and
 basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have
already said,
 I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
from a
 blind person.  A blind person might be a little more
understanding
 considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the
other
 side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
completely
 adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
their
 entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
such
 as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people
can
 have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
to
 handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.


 On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot
of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
blindness was
 revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
public
 place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
during
 an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
at some
 point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
when
 they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
happen at
 any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I
have done
 both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
blind.  I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
my
 nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
think
 of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share
interests and
 passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together.
However, there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
singles'
 parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
simply for
 the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
learn
 from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
others.
 As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
being
 rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
etc
 etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
willing
 to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...
why not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck
with your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
would
 be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
as
 they
 appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people
and find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
when
 they
 are
 confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
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 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
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 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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 --
 Mary Fernandez
 Emory 2012
 "Do I dare
 Disturb the universe?
 In a minute there is time
 For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
 --
 T.S.  Eliot

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