[nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Brian Hatgelakas
brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
Mon Mar 26 14:29:48 UTC 2012
amen! Desiree!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
> By the same token, you can't force something that's not meant to be.
> If a sighted person doesn't want to get past the stereotype, that's
> their loss, not yours.
>
> On 3/25/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all, jeff again
>>
>> See it all comes down to a point of who you have been around, I have
>> been around 3 other blind people besides the chapter metting in
>> detroit MI which i don't get to go all that much anymore, I am in
>> flint, and well that's a lot of gas money.
>>
>> But anyway, If a sited person in my kase, just takes one look at me
>> and does the stairow type, and I hate that more than anything. I do
>> beleave that a boy or girl, man or woman should becompletely okay with
>> each other's different things and if their truly in love with each
>> other, then nothing will be a problem.
>>
>> sorry if this does not make sence, or fits in with the rest of the
>> stuff, it is very late hear, and I am about to fall over.
>>
>> have a good night to all
>>
>> Jeff Crouch
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Love your message Desiree, and I agree that generalizations aren't a
>>> good thing. I have met very few blinde men or women that would measure
>>> up to my physical and cognitive perceived abilities, but that doesn't
>>> mean they don't exist. On the other hand, I haven't met very many
>>> blind people in general, and many of the ones I have met also have
>>> some underlying condition or disability. It's important that if we do
>>> have standards, we ought to apply those same standards to everyone,
>>> whether sighted or blind. Unless of course one of your standards is
>>> that you're going to stick with dating a sighted person ...
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Dez,
>>>>
>>>> I've never been in contact with blind women in my age bracket who have
>>>> succeeded in life like I have. I myself have standards just like yours
>>>> and
>>>> use these on sighted people as well as blind people. If I had an
>>>> actual
>>>> NFB
>>>> chapter full of blind people like my self in my area It would be much
>>>> easier
>>>> for me to network and make blind friends. My parents had beliefs
>>>> similar
>>>> to
>>>> your parents because I never grew up around the NFB. In fact I've just
>>>> recently discovered this organization in the past few years.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
>>>>> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
>>>>> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
>>>>> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
>>>>> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
>>>>> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
>>>>> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
>>>>> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
>>>>> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
>>>>> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
>>>>> even abused them due to their blindness?
>>>>> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
>>>>> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
>>>>> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
>>>>> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
>>>>> another thing though.
>>>>> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
>>>>> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
>>>>> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
>>>>> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
>>>>> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
>>>>> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
>>>>> hurtful.
>>>>> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
>>>>> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
>>>>> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
>>>>> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
>>>>> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
>>>>> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
>>>>> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
>>>>> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
>>>>> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
>>>>> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
>>>>> traits either.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>>>>>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> their parents roof. My rule is that any woman I date should be on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am. I've graduated
>>>>>> college
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Me neither. But I am just warning Jeff to be careful. Back then
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the
>>>>>>>> High
>>>>>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more
>>>>>>>> luck
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> dating during college than high school. But again during the few
>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was
>>>>>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I
>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> and am very happy I did. By doing this the women by the time
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get
>>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> in something you know won't last. Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls. Good
>>>>>>>>>> luck
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch"
>>>>>>>>>> <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just
>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world,
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me,
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and
>>>>>>>>>>>> mellissa.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee. I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
>>>>>>>>>>>> online.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
>>>>>>>>>>>> disastrous
>>>>>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of
>>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
>>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
>>>>>>>>>>>> online,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have
>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more
>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their
>>>>>>>>>>>> family
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was
>>>>>>>>>>>> visiting
>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial
>>>>>>>>>>>> relationship
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together.
>>>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel,
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your
>>>>>>>>>>>> appearance,
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ...
>>>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with
>>>>>>>>>>>> online
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
>>>>>>>>>>>> sad.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for
>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me
>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for
>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me
>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> jeff crouch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
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