[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society atsocial gatherings

[Carly Mihalakis]

Hi, Chris, and Ashley,

Personally, I dress up when going to junior college class because to 
me, I do not work. School is my work, it is how I demonstrate for the 
department of rehab, as well as for others who may be looking on 
curiously, my sincerity, and the seriousness with which I take my 
"job" and  for rehab' helping me with tuition.
Car Bramlett wrote:
>Chris,
>Be careful about spouting off ideas and perhaps preaching. I suppose 
>not conforming makes us look weird,
>incompetent and abnormal. But just what do you want a seminar to be?
>No, I don't think this topic lends itself to a conference call. Just 
>exactly how would you convey the info? If we are going to discuss 
>fashion or how to act this is best done by modeling. We need to be 
>shown and have descriptions. So it has to be hands on and a phone 
>conference just doesn't do this well IMO.
>
>Also, Chris since you are young and used college social gatherings 
>as an example of fitting in, I wanted to inform you that
>gatherings are rather informal. I doubt there are many unspoken 
>rules there; I'm pretty perceptive and I even asked  other students 
>about the scene privately afterward. They dress like college 
>students on campus which generally means with t shirts and blue 
>jeans. Some students wear t shirts and athletic style shorts. Some 
>dress in v neck or collared shirts. Most students wear sneakers or 
>sandles depending partly on weather and confort.
>
>The main rules I see are those followed anywhere a group gathers, 
>rules of respecting each other. Rules such as if there is food, wait 
>your turn for it to be passed or wait in line, depends on how the 
>food is handled. For instance at my bible study meetings. we passed 
>food around the room on a plate or set it on the little coffee table 
>in the middle of the room for people to walk to.
>Rules also included talking in an indoor voice since other 
>activities often were going on in other rooms,
>listening to each other, do not cut others off, waiting your turn to 
>speak, and don't leave early unless you have somewhere important to 
>go. Oh, and no assigned seating; first come, first served.
>
>I mention this so you don't have the impression that social 
>gatherings are these formal times with many procedures and policies 
>to follow. Social gatherings are simple a place to get together and 
>have fun and share information; they are just that-- to socialize.
>Other than common curtesy, I cannot think of many unspoken rules. 
>Now if you go to other more formal settings, big difference!
>A church, restaurant, a cocktail party, a reception, a more formal 
>dance are examples of more formal unspoken rules in those settings.
>
>If we did a seminar, we would have to point out that these norms 
>pertain to particular settings. What is acceptable one place is not 
>in another. I struggle to find out norms in places too. I might have 
>to ask someone and listen more to find out what is going on.
>It seems to me that sighted people learn new norms by observation 
>and for me it takes a few times of observing a situation to figure 
>out a pattern and discern their norms.
>
>Ashley
>
>-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:04 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted 
>society atsocial gatherings
>
>Hi Brandon and all,
>
>I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread,
>as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought
>up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed
>the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message.
>
>Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
>instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
>"fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
>should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
>(the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
>seminars at conventions.  One of the topics at the parents
>seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
>skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
>acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
>gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
>I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
>we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
>schools, with our friends, or in our communities.  Therefore, it
>is important  that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
>society has made.  If we don't know them and follow them, what
>does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
>different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.  These are the
>very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out
>from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
>blindness and blind people.  In other words, these are the very
>things we don't want sighted people thinking about us.  If this
>is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
>get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
>citizens at risk.  So, I think this would be a great thing for
>the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
>doing already.  Also, since this is an important topic for blind
>students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of
>a future NABS membership call.
>
>Just my thoughts,
>
>Chris
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>
>Hello,
>We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
>sex.  There is
>a huge difference.  If the student division is the only one with
>some
>practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
>:)
>I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
>sighted
>community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the
>blind
>community.
>I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or
>not) have
>some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally against
>the grain
>of sighted society.  My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
>suggested that
>the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
>world thinks.
>Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
>looks at a
>gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird.
>or a
>sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him
>and when
>she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
>really weird and
>she turns around and walks a mile away.
>This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
>both sexual
>health and social issues are topics that are very much in need of
>attention
>among blind individuals, and students in particular.
>I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
>aren't meant
>to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems would
>greatly
>improve convention.
>Thank you,
>
>Brandon Keith Biggs
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Arielle Silverman
>Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>
>Hi all,
>I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
>Whozit
>condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably
>some
>NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that
>NABS
>selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity
>among
>young or unmarried blind students.  I don't agree with that
>position,
>but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension,
>an
>NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
>providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
>or
>bringing on an unwanted political debate.
>I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
>Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and
>perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
>proverbial banana or some such.  When I was 15, I went to a
>diversity
>camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
>available
>as one of several choices.  They passed around condoms and in
>fact,
>this was the first time I actually felt one.  A general workshop
>about
>sex, dating and etiquette, etc.  might be worth having.
>Arielle
>
>On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>Hello,
>This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have
>never
>seen
>
>a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
>having to
>be
>
>embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
>condoms in
>the store.  Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
>browsing...
>Condoms,
>
>lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
>probably need
>to
>
>provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on
>a condom
>or
>
>use a dental dam.
>Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial.  The
>packing
>guide in the nabs newsletter  said to pack a ton of things and I
>for one
>don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
>that sell
>hot
>
>serial, so wasn't able to grab a box.  But I would have loved to
>buy a box
>for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
>(Then of
>course
>
>we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't
>bring
>their
>
>own utensil's).
>Thanks,
>
>Brandon Keith Biggs
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Anmol Bhatia
>Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>
>
>You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
>convention...
>
>Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table.  We can even
>braille
>them
>
>so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have.  lol
>
>Anmol
>
>I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>Perhaps
>there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>like a breeze
>among flowers.
>Hellen Keller
>
>
>--- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
>mailing
>list"
>
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
>Hi, Brandon,
>
>I went into a place in Denver to  buy a dildo yes, on
>the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
>I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
>Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum.  If I
>remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
>blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
>you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
>the bookstore, personnel.  Let us know how goes it,
>okay?  At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
>Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
>professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
>Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
>
>Respectfully,
>Jedi
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
><brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>wrote:
>
>Hello,
>Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
>turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
>I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
>really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind...  That
>only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
>Thank you Arielle for those websites.  I don't feel
>that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
>never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
>knows that site is trust worthy.
>I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
>used in oral intercourse.  The same is not for lube I
>presume?
>Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
>was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
>the experience is often not pleasant.
>Thanks,
>
>Brandon Keith Biggs
>-----Original Message----- From: Arielle
>Silverman
>Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>
>Hi all,
>I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
>are kind of in a
>gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
>for this list, since
>most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
>unique to blindness.
>So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
>too far afield, I
>will happily respect your judgment.  However, I
>also think that
>Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
>legitimate one and
>that there might be other blind people out here,
>including teenagers,
>who have similar concerns about how to get
>condoms, birth control or
>sexual health information without a lot of
>awkwardness or
>embarrassment.  It can be particularly difficult if
>you have to depend
>on someone else (especially parents) for
>transportation which can make
>going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
>There are a few places to buy condoms online,
>including
>www.condomania.com
>www.undercovercondoms.com
>and
>www.condomdepot.com
>Believe it or not, they also have some condom
>choices at
>www.amazon.com
>If you go to your health center on campus for any
>reason, it shouldn't
>be a problem  to ask a doctor or nurse there
>about condoms.
>I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
>having sex with a
>partner because that is a highly individual
>decision.  However, I feel
>it important that anyone who is considering having
>sex for the first
>time ensure you understand what all of your
>options are for preventing
>pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
>advantages and
>disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
>to use condoms  and
>birth control.  There are  a couple different
>websites with this kind
>of information:
>www.plannedparenthood.org
>(includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
>or
>www.scarleteen.com
>This issue is particularly close to my heart at
>the moment because my
>boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
>pregnancy at a very
>inopportune time (while still in college, with a
>guy she had only
>known for a few months) and was apparently taking
>birth control pills,
>but had not been taking them consistently.  While I
>don't believe that
>sex  should be feared, it is something that
>takes some responsibility,
>planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
>while minimizing the
>risks.  Also, while I won't go into details here,
>there are other ways
>to be physically intimate with someone that are
>less risky, which
>these online forums will talk about.
>I also want to bring up  an issue that is
>somewhat relevant to sexual
>health, which I experienced and I think that some
>of you might also be
>struggling with.  This is the issue of having your
>parents drive you to
>doctors' appointments and then having them want to
>sit in or even
>participate in your appointments.  Since I attended
>college in my home
>city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
>doctors' appointments
>and would then want to come in and chat with the
>doctor while he/she
>was examining me.  This was partly because my
>parents and I saw many of
>the same doctors and she often thought it was a
>good opportunity to
>ask the doctor a quick question about her own
>health while she was
>there, or because she was curious to see what the
>doctor recommended
>to me about a particular issue.  I eventually
>realized that while it
>wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
>privacy as an adult
>patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
>room while I was seeing
>the doctor.  I didn't actually take this stand
>until I was 21 and in
>hindsight I wish I had done  it much earlier.
>By the time you are 18,
>unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
>you have a right to
>privacy of your medical information and it is
>important to establish a
>good doctor-patient relationship without a third
>person interfering.
>This is especially true when it comes to sexual
>health and by the time
>you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
>discussing your sexual
>activities or questions with your doctors without
>your parents being
>around.  You might also want to consider getting a
>driver or even
>taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
>this problem.
>On a related note, by the time you are in high
>school, you should know
>the names of all medications you take on  a
>regular basis and any
>chronic medical conditions you may have.  If you
>ever have to go to the
>emergency room, this kind  of information may
>be requested of you.
>Best,
>Arielle
>
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