[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society atsocial gatherings
Ashley Bramlett
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sat Sep 15 05:14:13 UTC 2012
Chris,
Be careful about spouting off ideas and perhaps preaching. I suppose not
conforming makes us look weird,
incompetent and abnormal. But just what do you want a seminar to be?
No, I don't think this topic lends itself to a conference call. Just exactly
how would you convey the info? If we are going to discuss fashion or how to
act this is best done by modeling. We need to be shown and have
descriptions. So it has to be hands on and a phone conference just doesn't
do this well IMO.
Also, Chris since you are young and used college social gatherings as an
example of fitting in, I wanted to inform you that
gatherings are rather informal. I doubt there are many unspoken rules there;
I'm pretty perceptive and I even asked other students about the scene
privately afterward. They dress like college students on campus which
generally means with t shirts and blue jeans. Some students wear t shirts
and athletic style shorts. Some dress in v neck or collared shirts. Most
students wear sneakers or sandles depending partly on weather and confort.
The main rules I see are those followed anywhere a group gathers, rules of
respecting each other. Rules such as if there is food, wait your turn for it
to be passed or wait in line, depends on how the food is handled. For
instance at my bible study meetings. we passed food around the room on a
plate or set it on the little coffee table in the middle of the room for
people to walk to.
Rules also included talking in an indoor voice since other activities often
were going on in other rooms,
listening to each other, do not cut others off, waiting your turn to speak,
and don't leave early unless you have somewhere important to go. Oh, and no
assigned seating; first come, first served.
I mention this so you don't have the impression that social gatherings are
these formal times with many procedures and policies to follow. Social
gatherings are simple a place to get together and have fun and share
information; they are just that-- to socialize.
Other than common curtesy, I cannot think of many unspoken rules. Now if you
go to other more formal settings, big difference!
A church, restaurant, a cocktail party, a reception, a more formal dance are
examples of more formal unspoken rules in those settings.
If we did a seminar, we would have to point out that these norms pertain to
particular settings. What is acceptable one place is not in another. I
struggle to find out norms in places too. I might have to ask someone and
listen more to find out what is going on.
It seems to me that sighted people learn new norms by observation and for me
it takes a few times of observing a situation to figure out a pattern and
discern their norms.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society
atsocial gatherings
Hi Brandon and all,
I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread,
as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought
up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed
the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message.
Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
"fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
(the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents
seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it
is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what
does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the
very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out
from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very
things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this
is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for
the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind
students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of
a future NABS membership call.
Just my thoughts,
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
Hello,
We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
sex. There is
a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with
some
practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
:)
I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
sighted
community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the
blind
community.
I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or
not) have
some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally against
the grain
of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
suggested that
the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
world thinks.
Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
looks at a
gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird.
or a
sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him
and when
she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
really weird and
she turns around and walks a mile away.
This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
both sexual
health and social issues are topics that are very much in need of
attention
among blind individuals, and students in particular.
I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
aren't meant
to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems would
greatly
improve convention.
Thank you,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
Hi all,
I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
Whozit
condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably
some
NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that
NABS
selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity
among
young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that
position,
but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension,
an
NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
or
bringing on an unwanted political debate.
I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and
perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a
diversity
camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
available
as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in
fact,
this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop
about
sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having.
Arielle
On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have
never
seen
a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
having to
be
embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
condoms in
the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
browsing...
Condoms,
lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
probably need
to
provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on
a condom
or
use a dental dam.
Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The
packing
guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I
for one
don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
that sell
hot
serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to
buy a box
for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
(Then of
course
we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't
bring
their
own utensil's).
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Anmol Bhatia
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
convention...
Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even
braille
them
so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
Perhaps
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a breeze
among flowers.
Hellen Keller
--- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
wrote:
From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
mailing
list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
Hi, Brandon,
I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on
the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I
remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it,
okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
Respectfully,
Jedi
Sent from my iPhone
On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
wrote:
Hello,
Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That
only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel
that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
knows that site is trust worthy.
I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I
presume?
Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
the experience is often not pleasant.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- From: Arielle
Silverman
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
Hi all,
I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
are kind of in a
gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
for this list, since
most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
unique to blindness.
So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
too far afield, I
will happily respect your judgment. However, I
also think that
Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
legitimate one and
that there might be other blind people out here,
including teenagers,
who have similar concerns about how to get
condoms, birth control or
sexual health information without a lot of
awkwardness or
embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if
you have to depend
on someone else (especially parents) for
transportation which can make
going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
There are a few places to buy condoms online,
including
www.condomania.com
www.undercovercondoms.com
and
www.condomdepot.com
Believe it or not, they also have some condom
choices at
www.amazon.com
If you go to your health center on campus for any
reason, it shouldn't
be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there
about condoms.
I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
having sex with a
partner because that is a highly individual
decision. However, I feel
it important that anyone who is considering having
sex for the first
time ensure you understand what all of your
options are for preventing
pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
advantages and
disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
to use condoms and
birth control. There are a couple different
websites with this kind
of information:
www.plannedparenthood.org
(includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
or
www.scarleteen.com
This issue is particularly close to my heart at
the moment because my
boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
pregnancy at a very
inopportune time (while still in college, with a
guy she had only
known for a few months) and was apparently taking
birth control pills,
but had not been taking them consistently. While I
don't believe that
sex should be feared, it is something that
takes some responsibility,
planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
while minimizing the
risks. Also, while I won't go into details here,
there are other ways
to be physically intimate with someone that are
less risky, which
these online forums will talk about.
I also want to bring up an issue that is
somewhat relevant to sexual
health, which I experienced and I think that some
of you might also be
struggling with. This is the issue of having your
parents drive you to
doctors' appointments and then having them want to
sit in or even
participate in your appointments. Since I attended
college in my home
city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
doctors' appointments
and would then want to come in and chat with the
doctor while he/she
was examining me. This was partly because my
parents and I saw many of
the same doctors and she often thought it was a
good opportunity to
ask the doctor a quick question about her own
health while she was
there, or because she was curious to see what the
doctor recommended
to me about a particular issue. I eventually
realized that while it
wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
privacy as an adult
patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
room while I was seeing
the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand
until I was 21 and in
hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier.
By the time you are 18,
unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
you have a right to
privacy of your medical information and it is
important to establish a
good doctor-patient relationship without a third
person interfering.
This is especially true when it comes to sexual
health and by the time
you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
discussing your sexual
activities or questions with your doctors without
your parents being
around. You might also want to consider getting a
driver or even
taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
this problem.
On a related note, by the time you are in high
school, you should know
the names of all medications you take on a
regular basis and any
chronic medical conditions you may have. If you
ever have to go to the
emergency room, this kind of information may
be requested of you.
Best,
Arielle
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
iggs%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi
%40samobile.net
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co
mcast.net
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%
40yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
iggs%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
mail.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
iggs%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
More information about the NABS-L
mailing list