[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings
Ashley Bramlett
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sat Sep 15 06:02:57 UTC 2012
Beth,
That's terrible. But keep in mind that that is an extreme situation.
Parents can enforce social behavior without these extreme behaviors on their
part.
Social norms is much much more than not rocking.
And, beth, if you want to, you can still improve your behavior.
One way to know if you are standing straight is to stand against a wall. If
your head is straight and centered, it will be in the middle of your
shoulders. You can draw an imaginary line between your ears and shoulder
bones. I mean a straight line.
I found out this wall trick when my personal trainer from years ago talked
about posture. Posture is important for anyone doing exercise. So, she does
this talk and demo with everyone, not just me. Its easy for anyone to have
bad posture now since our society fosters sedintary living and we work at
computers or slouch in front of tvs for relaxation. So, when we exercise, we
bring some of these bad habits with us without knowing we did so.
If you feel your body needs some flexibility or better alignment, you can
also ask a doctor about it and if needed get refered for physical therapy.
Posture, balance, gait, and general gross motor activities should be
addressed as children. Sometimes they are not or they are addressed in the
wrong way.
This is why I believe a physical theripist for kids could help in this
regard. They recognize imbalances early on and can go over activities with
the child to improve their deficits. However, it may not be too late as an
adult, particularly if you
are young.
As for talking out loud, my parents criticized this too.
I still do this in the privacy of my home, it helps me think after all.
But what I try to do elsewhere is think these things instead of saying them
out loud.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Beth
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:32 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings
Made some sense to me, Arielle. I agree. There are plenty of
people that are labeled "weird", as I was one of them. My mother
repeatedly beat me on the head for moving it, screamed at me for
moving the head back and forth, and threatened violence for
talking out loud to either myself and people she didn't like. If
a subject matter was not pleasing to my parents, they'd
rigorously criticize me for talking about such things as my love
life, certain elements of school, etc., and then there were the
things they didn't like altogether. My bf thinks I'm making this
up, but when I was four, I was told that princesses weren't real
and I would never be one. Well, little girls like to pretend,
and I was being a simple little girl, but my mother wanted a
woman out of me before I was ready for that. Jason thinks the
emotional abuse that took place was all stories, but it's not.
Four-year-old girls play dress up, which is a social norm. Is it
not? Rhetorical question number one. Number two: just because a
parent is sitting there picking apart your conversation about a
certain guy you like to a relative, does that mean you have to
abide by their rules for talking to relatives? You can't talk
about your sweetheart to your family, says my mom or dad. They
never knew the NFB philosophy or CCB. I left them because of all
the fights over something they did that was totally wrong and
inconsiderate, and the way Florida VR wanted to play games with
my life. When I say my mother threatened violence against my
head wagging or subject matter infractions, she would hit me hard
for doing so and cause a load of pain. She would threaten to do
it again if I was caught moving it around. She would often
threaten to put a sign around my neck saying "Keep your head
still." That to me was pure hell. A for the subject matters,
grounding or certain itemss taken away such as stereos or
Internet privilege even when I was over eighteen.
Beth
----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:26:52 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
sighted societyatsocial gatherings
Hi all,
I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted
society"
is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms,
attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no
religious or political differences, no unique languages,
cultures,
customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many
subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not
killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs
relating to
dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ
between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture
(i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in
Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from
lawyers
etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of
nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe
that
blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to
make
informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not
follow,
just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to
work
even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course,
there
are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like
everybody
else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this,
or
"blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we
need
to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for
specific
situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is
probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if
I am
doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can
probably
get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if
most
of the other people there are wearing suits.
I do think it is useful to give blind students information about
how
they can learn about the norms present in their particular
culture,
i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to
read
about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum
for
students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to
blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that
preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in
does
much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident,
and
again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to
come to
these decisions for ourselves.
Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind
folks
who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and
sighted
alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we
need
to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social
makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human
beings
with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I
always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset
of
the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group.
I
spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate,
struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal
with
lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting
eye
contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind"
than
the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful
graduate
student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed
relationship.
In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending
in
and of how "different" I look at times, because this was
emphasized to
me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and
I
have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and
balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was
learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination
impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to
the
fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's
face
when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look
up
toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it
takes
a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I
end
up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I
have
been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye
contact. Some others in our community have additional
disabilities or
mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition
practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer
in
their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits
like
these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any
better or
being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all
members of our community have strengths and abilities of their
own,
even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we
should do what we can to empower these people instead of using
them as
examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope
that
made some sense.
Best,
Arielle
On 9/14/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes:
1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out
of
me because it just does for some reason.
2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls
shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us
girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I
will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and
this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care
of
themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my
current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a
man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand
that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we
are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind
woman
cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since
Jason
can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me
to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or
different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than
ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I,
due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad,
but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working
for
nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I
accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different
organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules
saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home
wife. You will be poor." No way.
Beth
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
sighted societyat social gatherings
Chris wrote,
Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules
which
our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow
them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we
are
weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.
Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural,
that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one
another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such
unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety,
self-loathing, and anguish.
We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago,
particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I
put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is
pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is
interested.
Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people
are
accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can
look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they
are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of
respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we
can
follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the
message
should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel
pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the
formation
of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings,
and
your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair,
discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis.
By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting
into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's
behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has
to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly
unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men
ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women.
These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the
result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot,
or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as
arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the
effort
similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more
explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called
right
way to act.
This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform
does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed
social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't
judge
or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the
unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge
someone
who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical
journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being
blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming
can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should
work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind
people
how to look and act like sighted people.
Regards,
Marc
On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum
<dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Brandon and all,
I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this
thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has
brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we
changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's
message.
Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
"fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
(the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents
seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it
is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what
does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the
very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut
out
from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very
things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this
is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for
the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind
students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic
of
a future NABS membership call.
Just my thoughts,
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
Hello,
We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
sex. There is
a huge difference. If the student division is the only one
with
some
practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
:)
I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
sighted
community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by
the
blind
community.
I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth
or
not) have
some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally
against the grain
of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
suggested that
the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
world thinks.
Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
looks at a
gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so
weird.
or a
sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to
him and when
she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
really weird and
she turns around and walks a mile away.
This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
both sexual
health and social issues are topics that are very much in need
of attention
among blind individuals, and students in particular.
I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
aren't meant
to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems
would greatly
improve convention.
Thank you,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
Hi all,
I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
Whozit
condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are
probably
some
NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel
that
NABS
selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual
activity
among
young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that
position,
but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by
extension, an
NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
or
bringing on an unwanted political debate.
I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general,
and
perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a
diversity
camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
available
as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in
fact,
this was the first time I actually felt one. A general
workshop
about
sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having.
Arielle
On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
wrote:
Hello,
This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people
have
never
seen
a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
having to
be
embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
condoms in
the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
browsing...
Condoms,
lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
probably need
to
provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put
on
a condom
or
use a dental dam.
Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial.
The
packing
guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and
I
for one
don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
that sell
hot
serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved
to
buy a box
for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
(Then of
course
we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who
didn't
bring
their
own utensil's).
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Anmol Bhatia
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
convention...
Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can
even
braille
them
so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
sad.
Perhaps
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a breeze
among flowers.
Hellen Keller
--- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
wrote:
From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
mailing
list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
Hi, Brandon,
I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on
the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I
remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it,
okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
Respectfully,
Jedi
Sent from my iPhone
On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
wrote:
Hello,
Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That
only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel
that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
knows that site is trust worthy.
I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I
presume?
Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
the experience is often not pleasant.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- From: Arielle
Silverman
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
Hi all,
I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
are kind of in a
gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
for this list, since
most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
unique to blindness.
So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
too far afield, I
will happily respect your judgment. However, I
also think that
Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
legitimate one and
that there might be other blind people out here,
including teenagers,
who have similar concerns about how to get
condoms, birth control or
sexual health information without a lot of
awkwardness or
embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if
you have to depend
on someone else (especially parents) for
transportation which can make
going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
There are a few places to buy condoms online,
including
www.condomania.com
www.undercovercondoms.com
and
www.condomdepot.com
Believe it or not, they also have some condom
choices at
www.amazon.com
If you go to your health center on campus for any
reason, it shouldn't
be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there
about condoms.
I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
having sex with a
partner because that is a highly individual
decision. However, I feel
it important that anyone who is considering having
sex for the first
time ensure you understand what all of your
options are for preventing
pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
advantages and
disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
to use condoms and
birth control. There are a couple different
websites with this kind
of information:
www.plannedparenthood.org
(includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
or
www.scarleteen.com
This issue is particularly close to my heart at
the moment because my
boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
pregnancy at a very
inopportune time (while still in college, with a
guy she had only
known for a few months) and was apparently taking
birth control pills,
but had not been taking them consistently. While I
don't believe that
sex should be feared, it is something that
takes some responsibility,
planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
while minimizing the
risks. Also, while I won't go into details here,
there are other ways
to be physically intimate with someone that are
less risky, which
these online forums will talk about.
I also want to bring up an issue that is
somewhat relevant to sexual
health, which I experienced and I think that some
of you might also be
struggling with. This is the issue of having your
parents drive you to
doctors' appointments and then having them want to
sit in or even
participate in your appointments. Since I attended
college in my home
city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
doctors' appointments
and would then want to come in and chat with the
doctor while he/she
was examining me. This was partly because my
parents and I saw many of
the same doctors and she often thought it was a
good opportunity to
ask the doctor a quick question about her own
health while she was
there, or because she was curious to see what the
doctor recommended
to me about a particular issue. I eventually
realized that while it
wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
privacy as an adult
patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
room while I was seeing
the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand
until I was 21 and in
hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier.
By the time you are 18,
unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
you have a right to
privacy of your medical information and it is
important to establish a
good doctor-patient relationship without a third
person interfering.
This is especially true when it comes to sexual
health and by the time
you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
discussing your sexual
activities or questions with your doctors without
your parents being
around. You might also want to consider getting a
driver or even
taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
this problem.
On a related note, by the time you are in high
school, you should know
the names of all medications you take on a
regular basis and any
chronic medical conditions you may have. If you
ever have to go to the
emergency room, this kind of information may
be requested of you.
Best,
Arielle
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