[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings

Littlefield, Tyler tyler at tysdomain.com
Thu Sep 20 14:30:09 UTC 2012


There's no other way to do it. If you can make someone laugh, you're 
pretty much set. It makes them feel 100 times more comfortable.
On 9/20/2012 6:26 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote:
> Good morning, Tyler,
>
> I like your additude. My partner Robin and I traverse our community of 
> Berkeley, California making people laugh so hopefully, putting them at 
> ease. we try not to bitch about terminology, just not using the 
> offending terminology but letting it go if they do. /19/2012, Joshua 
> Lester wrote:
>> I just hate being around ignorant people!
>> That's my problem!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf 
>> of Littlefield, Tyler [tyler at tysdomain.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:44 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted 
>> societyatsocial gatherings
>>
>> You know, maybe it's just all my personal charm or something, but I have
>> had the weird "have you watched... ur I mean listened to..." and I just
>> correct them and life goes on. If you explode because someone says
>> something about watching TV people are going to feel awkward. Maybe part
>> of it is I'm not totally anal and I can laugh, rather than bitch about
>> how I'm mistreated and alienated from the mean hurtful sighted world and
>> how they always laugh at me. Everyone's going to get pushed aside, and
>> things are harder if you're blind. It's not the end of the world.
>> On 9/19/2012 10:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>> > I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching 
>> TV," I get, "How do you watch it?"
>> > When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke!
>> > It gets old!
>> > Blessings, Joshua
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on 
>> behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted 
>> societyatsocial gatherings
>> >
>> > Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what
>> > we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd
>> > do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate
>> > it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't
>> > think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we
>> > like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not
>> > helping by spurring that misconception on.
>> >
>> > On 9/19/12, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah.  I am bj years old. I just
>> >> graduated a program called D.P.I.  Davidson Program For
>> >> Independence.  I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert
>> >> said I had to go.  So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get
>> >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to
>> >> tv, dogs and horses
>> >>
>> >>   ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700
>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>> >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings
>> >>
>> >> Hello,
>> >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out
>> >> cultures.
>> >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in
>> >> conversation.  It is
>> >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar
>> >> or more
>> >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew.
>> >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso
>> >> almost always.
>> >>
>> >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all
>> >> cultures.  A
>> >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows,
>> >> big eyes
>> >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared.
>> >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in
>> >> front facing
>> >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a
>> >> balloon and
>> >> the string is on your finger...
>> >>
>> >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because
>> >> it means
>> >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem,
>> >> glee club,
>> >> getting in a relationship, dating...
>> >>
>> >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted
>> >> world without
>> >> some sighted help.
>> >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more
>> >> blind
>> >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or
>> >> parents will
>> >> help.  I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and
>> >> with
>> >> questions like this they are invaluable...
>> >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over
>> >> your heart, as
>> >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are
>> >> terrified of
>> >> something?
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Arielle Silverman
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM
>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>> >> sighted societyat
>> >> social gatherings
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv
>> >> called
>> >> "Being  Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted".  Both
>> >> names
>> >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same  or that
>> >> there is
>> >> only one way to be socially  acceptable; these are notions that,
>> >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people
>> >> both.
>> >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a
>> >> nonjudgmental
>> >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations
>> >> and
>> >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a
>> >> place
>> >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way.
>> >> Also,
>> >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast
>> >> majority
>> >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep
>> >> teachers
>> >> and authority figures to a minimum.
>> >> I'd support a  name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or
>> >> "blind-dating" perhaps.
>> >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd
>> >> be
>> >> happy to help out with it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>   Names:
>> >>   See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever)
>> >>   Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB)
>> >>   Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted)
>> >>   talk sightless (TSightless)
>> >>
>> >>   Just some names...
>> >>   Thanks,
>> >>
>> >>   Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >>   -----Original Message-----
>> >>   From: Desiree Oudinot
>> >>   Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM
>> >>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>> >> sighted
>> >>   societyat
>> >>
>> >>   social gatherings
>> >>
>> >>   That's actually a pretty good idea for a name.  That was the
>> >> only thing
>> >>   holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't
>> >> really
>> >>   think of a name for it.  As for making a website, that would be
>> >> a cool
>> >>   idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to
>> >> go
>> >>   that route.
>> >>   Where I was going when I was talking about the different student
>> >>   divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of
>> >> contension on
>> >>   the list.  I don't want people going to war over which
>> >> organization's
>> >>   philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating
>> >> situations
>> >>   better.  It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so
>> >> choose,
>> >>   but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one.
>> >> I
>> >>   want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to
>> >>   discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their
>> >> social
>> >>   awkwardness.  If someone starts saying that joining the NFB
>> >> would help
>> >>   them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what
>> >> will
>> >>   that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on
>> >> doing
>> >>   so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would
>> >>   happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a
>> >> problem,
>> >>   it's just something to consider.
>> >>
>> >>   On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>   Hello,
>> >>   Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's
>> >> student and
>> >>   NFB's
>> >>
>> >>   student division is.  We are all dealing with exactly the same
>> >> things.  So
>> >>   I
>> >>   really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and
>> >> whatnot to
>> >>   be
>> >>
>> >>   on the list to answer questions we may have.  Many TVIs would
>> >> jump at the
>> >>   chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing.
>> >>   Just make a group, possibly:
>> >>   bseb at googlegroups.com or something :).  Being socially
>> >> acceptable blind or
>> >>
>> >>   a
>> >>
>> >>   cooler name LOL...  Any ideas?
>> >>   I even think this should have a website with different articles
>> >> that
>> >>   someone
>> >>
>> >>   can brows to answer any personal questions they may have.
>> >> Because this is
>> >>   such a big issue.
>> >>   Thanks,
>> >>
>> >>   Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >>   -----Original Message-----
>> >>   From: Desiree Oudinot
>> >>   Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM
>> >>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>> >> sighted
>> >>   societyat
>> >>
>> >>   social gatherings
>> >>
>> >>   And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to
>> >>   discuss these kinds of issues and more.  And, at the risk of
>> >> offending
>> >>   people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB
>> >> or
>> >>   ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no
>> >> matter
>> >>   their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how
>> >> they fit
>> >>   in with society.  Why does it offend you that blind people,
>> >> whether
>> >>   they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as
>> >>   sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have
>> >> to
>> >>   follow? I really want to understand this.  I know as well as
>> >> anyone
>> >>   what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be
>> >> treated
>> >>   like human beings.  First, we're blind people, then we're young,
>> >> and
>> >>   the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are
>> >> just as
>> >>   crippling as those surrounding being blind.  So being dealt both
>> >> as our
>> >>   hand in life is kind of a double whammy.  I still struggle when
>> >> someone
>> >>   actually treats me as an equal.  I want to run away.
>> >>
>> >>   On 9/14/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>   I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes:
>> >>   1.  Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out
>> >> of
>> >>   me because it just does for some reason.
>> >>   2.  Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls
>> >>   shouldn't be scientists.  What does that statement say about us
>> >>   girls?  Girls should be married to men with decent jobs.  No, I
>> >>   will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and
>> >>   this isn't the friggin' 1800's.  Girls and women can take care
>> >> of
>> >>   themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my
>> >>   current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a
>> >>   man and work and get paid for the woman.  Some societies demand
>> >>   that all men work and women stay home.  We, Americans though we
>> >>   are, still have these demands on blind women.  I as a blind
>> >> woman
>> >>   cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since
>> >> Jason
>> >>   can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me
>> >>   to do it.  Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or
>> >>   different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than
>> >>   ordinary men.  Jason, due to his disability, does not work.  I,
>> >>   due to mental illness, may never work.  I want to work so bad,
>> >>   but where?  Goodwill is out of the question.  I'm not working
>> >> for
>> >>   nothing or low wages because I'm a woman.  And no way will I
>> >>   accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different
>> >>   organs inside me.  I as a blind woman will not accept rules
>> >>   saying "You will be taken care of.  You will be a stay-at-home
>> >>   wife.  You will be poor."  No way.
>> >>   Beth
>> >>
>> >>    ----- Original Message -----
>> >>   From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>> >>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>   Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600
>> >>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>> >>   sighted societyat social gatherings
>> >>
>> >>   Chris wrote,
>> >>   Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules
>> >> which
>> >>   our sighted society has made.  If we don't know them and follow
>> >>   them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we
>> >> are
>> >>   weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.
>> >>
>> >>   Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural,
>> >>   that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one
>> >>   another, and that they are arbitrary.  I believe that such
>> >>   unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety,
>> >>   self-loathing, and anguish.
>> >>
>> >>   We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago,
>> >>   particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I
>> >>   put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is
>> >>   pejorative.  I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is
>> >>   interested.
>> >>
>> >>   Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people
>> >> are
>> >>   accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can
>> >>   look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they
>> >>   are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of
>> >>   respect as sighted people.  The message shouldn't be, "hey, we
>> >> can
>> >>   follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the
>> >> message
>> >>   should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel
>> >>   pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the
>> >> formation
>> >>   of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings,
>> >> and
>> >>   your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair,
>> >>   discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis.
>> >>
>> >>   By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting
>> >>   into sighted society.  We are constantly policing one another's
>> >>   behaviour.  Probably one of the more obvious examples of this
>> >> has
>> >>   to do with gender.  There are hundreds if not thousands of
>> >> mostly
>> >>   unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men
>> >>   ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women.
>> >>   These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the
>> >>   result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot,
>> >>   or chooses not to, conform.  These gender rules are just as
>> >>   arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the
>> >> effort
>> >>   similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more
>> >>   explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called
>> >> right
>> >>   way to act.
>> >>
>> >>   This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform
>> >>   does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed
>> >>   social, volunteer, and employment opportunities.  So I don't
>> >> judge
>> >>   or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the
>> >>   unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge
>> >> someone
>> >>   who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical
>> >>   journals and desperately praying for a cure.  It's hard being
>> >>   blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming
>> >>   can make things a little bit easier.  But I still think we
>> >> should
>> >>   work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind
>> >> people
>> >>   how to look and act like sighted people.
>> >>
>> >>   Regards,
>> >>
>> >>   Marc
>> >>   On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum
>> >>   <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>    Hi Brandon and all,
>> >>
>> >>    I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this
>> >>   thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has
>> >>   brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we
>> >>   changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's
>> >>   message.
>> >>
>> >>    Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
>> >>   instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
>> >>   "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
>> >>   should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
>> >>   (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
>> >>   seminars at conventions.  One of the topics at the parents
>> >>   seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
>> >>   skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
>> >>   acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
>> >>   gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
>> >>   I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
>> >>   we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
>> >>   schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it
>> >>   is important  that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
>> >>   society has made.  If we don't know them and follow them, what
>> >>   does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
>> >>   different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the
>> >>   very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut
>> >> out
>> >>   from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
>> >>   blindness and blind people.  In other words, these are the very
>> >>   things we don't want sighted people thinking about us.  If this
>> >>   is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
>> >>   get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
>> >>   citizens at risk.  So, I think this would be a great thing for
>> >>   the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
>> >>   doing already.  Also, since this is an important topic for blind
>> >>   students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic
>> >> of
>> >>   a future NABS membership call.
>> >>
>> >>    Just my thoughts,
>> >>
>> >>    Chris
>> >>
>> >>    ----- Original Message -----
>> >>    From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >>    To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >>   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>    Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
>> >>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>> >>
>> >>    Hello,
>> >>    We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
>> >>   sex.  There is
>> >>    a huge difference.  If the student division is the only one
>> >> with
>> >>   some
>> >>    practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
>> >>   :)
>> >>    I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
>> >>   sighted
>> >>    community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by
>> >> the
>> >>   blind
>> >>    community.
>> >>    I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth
>> >> or
>> >>   not) have
>> >>    some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally
>> >>   against the grain
>> >>    of sighted society.  My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
>> >>   suggested that
>> >>    the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
>> >>   world thinks.
>> >>    Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
>> >>   looks at a
>> >>    gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so
>> >> weird.
>> >>   or a
>> >>    sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to
>> >>   him and when
>> >>    she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
>> >>   really weird and
>> >>    she turns around and walks a mile away.
>> >>    This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
>> >>   both sexual
>> >>    health and social issues are topics that are very much in need
>> >>   of attention
>> >>    among blind individuals, and students in particular.
>> >>    I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
>> >>   aren't meant
>> >>    to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems
>> >>   would greatly
>> >>    improve convention.
>> >>    Thank you,
>> >>
>> >>    Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >>    -----Original Message-----
>> >>    From: Arielle Silverman
>> >>    Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
>> >>    To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>> >>
>> >>    Hi all,
>> >>    I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
>> >>   Whozit
>> >>    condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are
>> >> probably
>> >>   some
>> >>    NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel
>> >> that
>> >>   NABS
>> >>    selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual
>> >> activity
>> >>   among
>> >>    young or unmarried blind students.  I don't agree with that
>> >>   position,
>> >>    but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by
>> >>   extension, an
>> >>    NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
>> >>    providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
>> >>   or
>> >>    bringing on an unwanted political debate.
>> >>    I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
>> >>    Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general,
>> >> and
>> >>    perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
>> >>    proverbial banana or some such.  When I was 15, I went to a
>> >>   diversity
>> >>    camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
>> >>   available
>> >>    as one of several choices.  They passed around condoms and in
>> >>   fact,
>> >>    this was the first time I actually felt one.  A general
>> >> workshop
>> >>   about
>> >>    sex, dating and etiquette, etc.  might be worth having.
>> >>    Arielle
>> >>
>> >>    On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >>   wrote:
>> >>    Hello,
>> >>    This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people
>> >> have
>> >>   never
>> >>    seen
>> >>
>> >>    a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
>> >>   having to
>> >>    be
>> >>
>> >>    embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
>> >>   condoms in
>> >>    the store.  Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
>> >>   browsing...
>> >>    Condoms,
>> >>
>> >>    lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
>> >>   probably need
>> >>    to
>> >>
>> >>    provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put
>> >> on
>> >>   a condom
>> >>    or
>> >>
>> >>    use a dental dam.
>> >>    Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial.
>> >> The
>> >>   packing
>> >>    guide in the nabs newsletter  said to pack a ton of things and
>> >> I
>> >>   for one
>> >>    don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
>> >>   that sell
>> >>    hot
>> >>
>> >>    serial, so wasn't able to grab a box.  But I would have loved
>> >> to
>> >>   buy a box
>> >>    for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
>> >>   (Then of
>> >>    course
>> >>
>> >>    we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who
>> >> didn't
>> >>   bring
>> >>    their
>> >>
>> >>    own utensil's).
>> >>    Thanks,
>> >>
>> >>    Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >>    -----Original Message-----
>> >>    From: Anmol Bhatia
>> >>    Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
>> >>    To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>    You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
>> >>    convention...
>> >>
>> >>    Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can
>> >> even
>> >>   braille
>> >>    them
>> >>
>> >>    so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have.  lol
>> >>
>> >>    Anmol
>> >>
>> >>    I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
>> >> sad.
>> >>   Perhaps
>> >>    there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> >>   like a breeze
>> >>    among flowers.
>> >>    Hellen Keller
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>    --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>> >>   wrote:
>> >>
>> >>    From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>> >>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>> >>    To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
>> >>   mailing
>> >>    list"
>> >>
>> >>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>    Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
>> >>    Hi, Brandon,
>> >>
>> >>    I went into a place in Denver to  buy a dildo yes, on
>> >>    the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
>> >>    I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
>> >>    Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I
>> >>    remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
>> >>    blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
>> >>    you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
>> >>    the bookstore, personnel.  Let us know how goes it,
>> >>    okay?  At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
>> >>    Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
>> >>    professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
>> >>    Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
>> >>
>> >>    Respectfully,
>> >>    Jedi
>> >>
>> >>    Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>    On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>> >>    <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >>    wrote:
>> >>
>> >>    Hello,
>> >>    Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
>> >>    turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
>> >>    I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
>> >>    really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind...  That
>> >>    only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
>> >>    Thank you Arielle for those websites.  I don't feel
>> >>    that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
>> >>    never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
>> >>    knows that site is trust worthy.
>> >>    I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
>> >>    used in oral intercourse.  The same is not for lube I
>> >>    presume?
>> >>    Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
>> >>    was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
>> >>    the experience is often not pleasant.
>> >>    Thanks,
>> >>
>> >>    Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >>    -----Original Message----- From: Arielle
>> >>    Silverman
>> >>    Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
>> >>    To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>    Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>> >>
>> >>    Hi all,
>> >>    I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
>> >>    are kind of in a
>> >>    gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
>> >>    for this list, since
>> >>    most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
>> >>    unique to blindness.
>> >>    So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
>> >>    too far afield, I
>> >>    will happily respect your judgment.  However, I
>> >>    also think that
>> >>    Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
>> >>    legitimate one and
>> >>    that there might be other blind people out here,
>> >>    including teenagers,
>> >>    who have similar concerns about how to get
>> >>    condoms, birth control or
>> >>    sexual health information without a lot of
>> >>    awkwardness or
>> >>    embarrassment.  It can be particularly difficult if
>> >>    you have to depend
>> >>    on someone else (especially parents) for
>> >>    transportation which can make
>> >>    going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
>> >>    There are a few places to buy condoms online,
>> >>    including
>> >>    www.condomania.com
>> >>    www.undercovercondoms.com
>> >>    and
>> >>    www.condomdepot.com
>> >>    Believe it or not, they also have some condom
>> >>    choices at
>> >>    www.amazon.com
>> >>    If you go to your health center on campus for any
>> >>    reason, it shouldn't
>> >>    be a problem  to ask a doctor or nurse there
>> >>    about condoms.
>> >>    I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
>> >>    having sex with a
>> >>    partner because that is a highly individual
>> >>    decision.  However, I feel
>> >>    it important that anyone who is considering having
>> >>    sex for the first
>> >>    time ensure you understand what all of your
>> >>    options are for preventing
>> >>    pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
>> >>    advantages and
>> >>    disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
>> >>    to use condoms  and
>> >>    birth control.  There are  a couple different
>> >>    websites with this kind
>> >>    of information:
>> >>    www.plannedparenthood.org
>> >>    (includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
>> >>    or
>> >>    www.scarleteen.com
>> >>    This issue is particularly close to my heart at
>> >>    the moment because my
>> >>    boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
>> >>    pregnancy at a very
>> >>    inopportune time (while still in college, with a
>> >>    guy she had only
>> >>    known for a few months) and was apparently taking
>> >>    birth control pills,
>> >>    but had not been taking them consistently.  While I
>> >>    don't believe that
>> >>    sex  should be feared, it is something that
>> >>    takes some responsibility,
>> >>    planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
>> >>    while minimizing the
>> >>    risks.  Also, while I won't go into details here,
>> >>    there are other ways
>> >>    to be physically intimate with someone that are
>> >>    less risky, which
>> >>    these online forums will talk about.
>> >>    I also want to bring up  an issue that is
>> >>    somewhat relevant to sexual
>> >>    health, which I experienced and I think that some
>> >>    of you might also be
>> >>    struggling with.  This is the issue of having your
>> >>    parents drive you to
>> >>    doctors' appointments and then having them want to
>> >>    sit in or even
>> >>    participate in your appointments.  Since I attended
>> >>    college in my home
>> >>    city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
>> >>    doctors' appointments
>> >>    and would then want to come in and chat with the
>> >>    doctor while he/she
>> >>    was examining me.  This was partly because my
>> >>    parents and I saw many of
>> >>    the same doctors and she often thought it was a
>> >>    good opportunity to
>> >>    ask the doctor a quick question about her own
>> >>    health while she was
>> >>    there, or because she was curious to see what the
>> >>    doctor recommended
>> >>    to me about a particular issue.  I eventually
>> >>    realized that while it
>> >>    wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
>> >>    privacy as an adult
>> >>    patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
>> >>    room while I was seeing
>> >>    the doctor.  I didn't actually take this stand
>> >>    until I was 21 and in
>> >>    hindsight I wish I had done  it much earlier.
>> >>    By the time you are 18,
>> >>    unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
>> >>    you have a right to
>> >>    privacy of your medical information and it is
>> >>    important to establish a
>> >>    good doctor-patient relationship without a third
>> >>    person interfering.
>> >>    This is especially true when it comes to sexual
>> >>    health and by the time
>> >>    you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
>> >>    discussing your sexual
>> >>    activities or questions with your doctors without
>> >>    your parents being
>> >>    around.  You might also want to consider getting a
>> >>    driver or even
>> >>    taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
>> >>    this problem.
>> >>    On a related note, by the time you are in high
>> >>    school, you should know
>> >>    the names of all medications you take on  a
>> >>    regular basis and any
>> >>    chronic medical conditions you may have.  If you
>> >>    ever have to go to the
>> >>    emergency room, this kind  of information may
>> >>    be requested of you.
>> >>    Best,
>> >>    Arielle
>> >>
>> >>    _______________________________________________
>> >>    nabs-l mailing list
>> >>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>> >>    your account info for nabs-l:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>> >>    iggs%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi
>> >>    %40samobile.net
>> >>
>> >>
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>>
>> -- 
>> Take care,
>> Ty
>> http://tds-solutions.net
>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; 
>> he that dares not reason is a slave.
>>
>>
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.





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