[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings

Carly Mihalakis carlymih at comcast.net
Thu Sep 20 17:38:38 UTC 2012


Yeah, Tyler,

Just make 'em laugh! Hopefully, he forgets how awkward he feels by 
the mere presence of oh my god, a BLIND person! :44 PM 9/19/2012, 
Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
>You know, maybe it's just all my personal charm or something, but I 
>have had the weird "have you watched... ur I mean listened to..." 
>and I just correct them and life goes on. If you explode because 
>someone says something about watching TV people are going to feel 
>awkward. Maybe part of it is I'm not totally anal and I can laugh, 
>rather than bitch about how I'm mistreated and alienated from the 
>mean hurtful sighted world and how they always laugh at me. 
>Everyone's going to get pushed aside, and things are harder if 
>you're blind. It's not the end of the world.
>On 9/19/2012 10:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching 
>>TV," I get, "How do you watch it?"
>>When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke!
>>It gets old!
>>Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>________________________________________
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on 
>>behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted 
>>societyatsocial gatherings
>>
>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what
>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd
>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate
>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't
>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we
>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not
>>helping by spurring that misconception on.
>>
>>On 9/19/12, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Hello everyone, my name is Sarah.  I am bj years old.  I just
>>>graduated a program called D.P.I.  Davidson Program For
>>>Independence.  I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert
>>>said I had to go.  So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get
>>>my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to
>>>tv, dogs and horses
>>>
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>sighted societyatsocial gatherings
>>>
>>>Hello,
>>>There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out
>>>cultures.
>>>For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in
>>>conversation.  It is
>>>only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar
>>>or more
>>>heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew.
>>>Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso
>>>almost always.
>>>
>>>Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all
>>>cultures.  A
>>>smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows,
>>>big eyes
>>>with mouth a little open is startled or scared.
>>>Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in
>>>front facing
>>>up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a
>>>balloon and
>>>the string is on your finger...
>>>
>>>Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because
>>>it means
>>>one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem,
>>>glee club,
>>>getting in a relationship, dating...
>>>
>>>I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted
>>>world without
>>>some sighted help.
>>>Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more
>>>blind
>>>people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or
>>>parents will
>>>help.  I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and
>>>with
>>>questions like this they are invaluable...
>>>Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over
>>>your heart, as
>>>if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are
>>>terrified of
>>>something?
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Arielle Silverman
>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM
>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>sighted societyat
>>>social gatherings
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv
>>>called
>>>"Being  Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted".  Both
>>>names
>>>imply that all sighted people look and act the same  or that
>>>there is
>>>only one way to be socially  acceptable; these are notions that,
>>>frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people
>>>both.
>>>I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a
>>>nonjudgmental
>>>forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations
>>>and
>>>get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a
>>>place
>>>where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way.
>>>Also,
>>>while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast
>>>majority
>>>of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep
>>>teachers
>>>and authority figures to a minimum.
>>>I'd support a  name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or
>>>"blind-dating" perhaps.
>>>If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd
>>>be
>>>happy to help out with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>   Names:
>>>   See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever)
>>>   Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB)
>>>   Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted)
>>>   talk sightless (TSightless)
>>>
>>>   Just some names...
>>>   Thanks,
>>>
>>>   Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>>   From: Desiree Oudinot
>>>   Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM
>>>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>sighted
>>>   societyat
>>>
>>>   social gatherings
>>>
>>>   That's actually a pretty good idea for a name.  That was the
>>>only thing
>>>   holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't
>>>really
>>>   think of a name for it.  As for making a website, that would be
>>>a cool
>>>   idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to
>>>go
>>>   that route.
>>>   Where I was going when I was talking about the different student
>>>   divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of
>>>contension on
>>>   the list.  I don't want people going to war over which
>>>organization's
>>>   philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating
>>>situations
>>>   better.  It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so
>>>choose,
>>>   but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one.
>>>I
>>>   want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to
>>>   discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their
>>>social
>>>   awkwardness.  If someone starts saying that joining the NFB
>>>would help
>>>   them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what
>>>will
>>>   that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on
>>>doing
>>>   so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would
>>>   happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a
>>>problem,
>>>   it's just something to consider.
>>>
>>>   On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>   Hello,
>>>   Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's
>>>student and
>>>   NFB's
>>>
>>>   student division is.  We are all dealing with exactly the same
>>>things.  So
>>>   I
>>>   really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and
>>>whatnot to
>>>   be
>>>
>>>   on the list to answer questions we may have.  Many TVIs would
>>>jump at the
>>>   chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing.
>>>   Just make a group, possibly:
>>>   bseb at googlegroups.com or something :).  Being socially
>>>acceptable blind or
>>>
>>>   a
>>>
>>>   cooler name LOL...  Any ideas?
>>>   I even think this should have a website with different articles
>>>that
>>>   someone
>>>
>>>   can brows to answer any personal questions they may have.
>>>Because this is
>>>   such a big issue.
>>>   Thanks,
>>>
>>>   Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>>   From: Desiree Oudinot
>>>   Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM
>>>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>sighted
>>>   societyat
>>>
>>>   social gatherings
>>>
>>>   And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to
>>>   discuss these kinds of issues and more.  And, at the risk of
>>>offending
>>>   people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB
>>>or
>>>   ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no
>>>matter
>>>   their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how
>>>they fit
>>>   in with society.  Why does it offend you that blind people,
>>>whether
>>>   they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as
>>>   sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have
>>>to
>>>   follow? I really want to understand this.  I know as well as
>>>anyone
>>>   what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be
>>>treated
>>>   like human beings.  First, we're blind people, then we're young,
>>>and
>>>   the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are
>>>just as
>>>   crippling as those surrounding being blind.  So being dealt both
>>>as our
>>>   hand in life is kind of a double whammy.  I still struggle when
>>>someone
>>>   actually treats me as an equal.  I want to run away.
>>>
>>>   On 9/14/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>   I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes:
>>>   1.  Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out
>>>of
>>>   me because it just does for some reason.
>>>   2.  Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls
>>>   shouldn't be scientists.  What does that statement say about us
>>>   girls?  Girls should be married to men with decent jobs.  No, I
>>>   will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and
>>>   this isn't the friggin' 1800's.  Girls and women can take care
>>>of
>>>   themselves, and they can work and support families.  Jason, my
>>>   current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a
>>>   man and work and get paid for the woman.  Some societies demand
>>>   that all men work and women stay home.  We, Americans though we
>>>   are, still have these demands on blind women.  I as a blind
>>>woman
>>>   cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood.  Since
>>>Jason
>>>   can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me
>>>   to do it.  Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or
>>>   different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than
>>>   ordinary men.  Jason, due to his disability, does not work.  I,
>>>   due to mental illness, may never work.  I want to work so bad,
>>>   but where?  Goodwill is out of the question.  I'm not working
>>>for
>>>   nothing or low wages because I'm a woman.  And no way will I
>>>   accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different
>>>   organs inside me.  I as a blind woman will not accept rules
>>>   saying "You will be taken care of.  You will be a stay-at-home
>>>   wife.  You will be poor."  No way.
>>>   Beth
>>>
>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>>>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>   Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600
>>>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>   sighted societyat social gatherings
>>>
>>>   Chris wrote,
>>>   Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules
>>>which
>>>   our sighted society has made.  If we don't know them and follow
>>>   them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we
>>>are
>>>   weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.
>>>
>>>   Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural,
>>>   that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one
>>>   another, and that they are arbitrary.  I believe that such
>>>   unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety,
>>>   self-loathing, and anguish.
>>>
>>>   We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago,
>>>   particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I
>>>   put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is
>>>   pejorative.  I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is
>>>   interested.
>>>
>>>   Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people
>>>are
>>>   accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can
>>>   look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they
>>>   are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of
>>>   respect as sighted people.  The message shouldn't be, "hey, we
>>>can
>>>   follow your rules, so you should accept us".  Instead, the
>>>message
>>>   should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel
>>>   pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the
>>>formation
>>>   of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings,
>>>and
>>>   your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair,
>>>   discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr.  Lewis.
>>>
>>>   By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting
>>>   into sighted society.  We are constantly policing one another's
>>>   behaviour.  Probably one of the more obvious examples of this
>>>has
>>>   to do with gender.  There are hundreds if not thousands of
>>>mostly
>>>   unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men
>>>   ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women.
>>>   These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the
>>>   result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot,
>>>   or chooses not to, conform.  These gender rules are just as
>>>   arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the
>>>effort
>>>   similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more
>>>   explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called
>>>right
>>>   way to act.
>>>
>>>   This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform
>>>   does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed
>>>   social, volunteer, and employment opportunities.  So I don't
>>>judge
>>>   or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the
>>>   unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge
>>>someone
>>>   who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical
>>>   journals and desperately praying for a cure.  It's hard being
>>>   blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming
>>>   can make things a little bit easier.  But I still think we
>>>should
>>>   work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind
>>>people
>>>   how to look and act like sighted people.
>>>
>>>   Regards,
>>>
>>>   Marc
>>>   On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum
>>>   <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>    Hi Brandon and all,
>>>
>>>    I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this
>>>   thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has
>>>   brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we
>>>   changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's
>>>   message.
>>>
>>>    Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
>>>   instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
>>>   "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
>>>   should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
>>>   (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
>>>   seminars at conventions.  One of the topics at the parents
>>>   seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
>>>   skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
>>>   acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
>>>   gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
>>>   I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
>>>   we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
>>>   schools, with our friends, or in our communities.  Therefore, it
>>>   is important  that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
>>>   society has made.  If we don't know them and follow them, what
>>>   does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
>>>   different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.  These are the
>>>   very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut
>>>out
>>>   from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
>>>   blindness and blind people.  In other words, these are the very
>>>   things we don't want sighted people thinking about us.  If this
>>>   is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
>>>   get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
>>>   citizens at risk.  So, I think this would be a great thing for
>>>   the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
>>>   doing already.  Also, since this is an important topic for blind
>>>   students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic
>>>of
>>>   a future NABS membership call.
>>>
>>>    Just my thoughts,
>>>
>>>    Chris
>>>
>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>>    From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>    To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
>>>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>
>>>    Hello,
>>>    We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
>>>   sex.  There is
>>>    a huge difference.  If the student division is the only one
>>>with
>>>   some
>>>    practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
>>>   :)
>>>    I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
>>>   sighted
>>>    community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by
>>>the
>>>   blind
>>>    community.
>>>    I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth
>>>or
>>>   not) have
>>>    some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally
>>>   against the grain
>>>    of sighted society.  My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
>>>   suggested that
>>>    the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
>>>   world thinks.
>>>    Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
>>>   looks at a
>>>    gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so
>>>weird.
>>>   or a
>>>    sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to
>>>   him and when
>>>    she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
>>>   really weird and
>>>    she turns around and walks a mile away.
>>>    This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
>>>   both sexual
>>>    health and social issues are topics that are very much in need
>>>   of attention
>>>    among blind individuals, and students in particular.
>>>    I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
>>>   aren't meant
>>>    to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems
>>>   would greatly
>>>    improve convention.
>>>    Thank you,
>>>
>>>    Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>    -----Original Message-----
>>>    From: Arielle Silverman
>>>    Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
>>>    To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>
>>>    Hi all,
>>>    I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
>>>   Whozit
>>>    condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are
>>>probably
>>>   some
>>>    NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel
>>>that
>>>   NABS
>>>    selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual
>>>activity
>>>   among
>>>    young or unmarried blind students.  I don't agree with that
>>>   position,
>>>    but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by
>>>   extension, an
>>>    NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
>>>    providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
>>>   or
>>>    bringing on an unwanted political debate.
>>>    I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
>>>    Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general,
>>>and
>>>    perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
>>>    proverbial banana or some such.  When I was 15, I went to a
>>>   diversity
>>>    camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
>>>   available
>>>    as one of several choices.  They passed around condoms and in
>>>   fact,
>>>    this was the first time I actually felt one.  A general
>>>workshop
>>>   about
>>>    sex, dating and etiquette, etc.  might be worth having.
>>>    Arielle
>>>
>>>    On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>   wrote:
>>>    Hello,
>>>    This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people
>>>have
>>>   never
>>>    seen
>>>
>>>    a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
>>>   having to
>>>    be
>>>
>>>    embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
>>>   condoms in
>>>    the store.  Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
>>>   browsing...
>>>    Condoms,
>>>
>>>    lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
>>>   probably need
>>>    to
>>>
>>>    provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put
>>>on
>>>   a condom
>>>    or
>>>
>>>    use a dental dam.
>>>    Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial.
>>>The
>>>   packing
>>>    guide in the nabs newsletter  said to pack a ton of things and
>>>I
>>>   for one
>>>    don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
>>>   that sell
>>>    hot
>>>
>>>    serial, so wasn't able to grab a box.  But I would have loved
>>>to
>>>   buy a box
>>>    for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
>>>   (Then of
>>>    course
>>>
>>>    we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who
>>>didn't
>>>   bring
>>>    their
>>>
>>>    own utensil's).
>>>    Thanks,
>>>
>>>    Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>    -----Original Message-----
>>>    From: Anmol Bhatia
>>>    Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
>>>    To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>
>>>
>>>    You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
>>>    convention...
>>>
>>>    Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table.  We can
>>>even
>>>   braille
>>>    them
>>>
>>>    so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have.  lol
>>>
>>>    Anmol
>>>
>>>    I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
>>>sad.
>>>   Perhaps
>>>    there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>   like a breeze
>>>    among flowers.
>>>    Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>>    --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>>>   wrote:
>>>
>>>    From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>>>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>    To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
>>>   mailing
>>>    list"
>>>
>>>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
>>>    Hi, Brandon,
>>>
>>>    I went into a place in Denver to  buy a dildo yes, on
>>>    the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
>>>    I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
>>>    Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum.  If I
>>>    remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
>>>    blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
>>>    you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
>>>    the bookstore, personnel.  Let us know how goes it,
>>>    okay?  At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
>>>    Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
>>>    professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
>>>    Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
>>>
>>>    Respectfully,
>>>    Jedi
>>>
>>>    Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>    On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>>>    <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>    wrote:
>>>
>>>    Hello,
>>>    Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
>>>    turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
>>>    I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
>>>    really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind...  That
>>>    only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
>>>    Thank you Arielle for those websites.  I don't feel
>>>    that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
>>>    never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
>>>    knows that site is trust worthy.
>>>    I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
>>>    used in oral intercourse.  The same is not for lube I
>>>    presume?
>>>    Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
>>>    was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
>>>    the experience is often not pleasant.
>>>    Thanks,
>>>
>>>    Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>    -----Original Message----- From: Arielle
>>>    Silverman
>>>    Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
>>>    To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>
>>>    Hi all,
>>>    I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
>>>    are kind of in a
>>>    gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
>>>    for this list, since
>>>    most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
>>>    unique to blindness.
>>>    So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
>>>    too far afield, I
>>>    will happily respect your judgment.  However, I
>>>    also think that
>>>    Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
>>>    legitimate one and
>>>    that there might be other blind people out here,
>>>    including teenagers,
>>>    who have similar concerns about how to get
>>>    condoms, birth control or
>>>    sexual health information without a lot of
>>>    awkwardness or
>>>    embarrassment.  It can be particularly difficult if
>>>    you have to depend
>>>    on someone else (especially parents) for
>>>    transportation which can make
>>>    going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
>>>    There are a few places to buy condoms online,
>>>    including
>>>    www.condomania.com
>>>    www.undercovercondoms.com
>>>    and
>>>    www.condomdepot.com
>>>    Believe it or not, they also have some condom
>>>    choices at
>>>    www.amazon.com
>>>    If you go to your health center on campus for any
>>>    reason, it shouldn't
>>>    be a problem  to ask a doctor or nurse there
>>>    about condoms.
>>>    I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
>>>    having sex with a
>>>    partner because that is a highly individual
>>>    decision.  However, I feel
>>>    it important that anyone who is considering having
>>>    sex for the first
>>>    time ensure you understand what all of your
>>>    options are for preventing
>>>    pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
>>>    advantages and
>>>    disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
>>>    to use condoms  and
>>>    birth control.  There are  a couple different
>>>    websites with this kind
>>>    of information:
>>>    www.plannedparenthood.org
>>>    (includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
>>>    or
>>>    www.scarleteen.com
>>>    This issue is particularly close to my heart at
>>>    the moment because my
>>>    boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
>>>    pregnancy at a very
>>>    inopportune time (while still in college, with a
>>>    guy she had only
>>>    known for a few months) and was apparently taking
>>>    birth control pills,
>>>    but had not been taking them consistently.  While I
>>>    don't believe that
>>>    sex  should be feared, it is something that
>>>    takes some responsibility,
>>>    planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
>>>    while minimizing the
>>>    risks.  Also, while I won't go into details here,
>>>    there are other ways
>>>    to be physically intimate with someone that are
>>>    less risky, which
>>>    these online forums will talk about.
>>>    I also want to bring up  an issue that is
>>>    somewhat relevant to sexual
>>>    health, which I experienced and I think that some
>>>    of you might also be
>>>    struggling with.  This is the issue of having your
>>>    parents drive you to
>>>    doctors' appointments and then having them want to
>>>    sit in or even
>>>    participate in your appointments.  Since I attended
>>>    college in my home
>>>    city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
>>>    doctors' appointments
>>>    and would then want to come in and chat with the
>>>    doctor while he/she
>>>    was examining me.  This was partly because my
>>>    parents and I saw many of
>>>    the same doctors and she often thought it was a
>>>    good opportunity to
>>>    ask the doctor a quick question about her own
>>>    health while she was
>>>    there, or because she was curious to see what the
>>>    doctor recommended
>>>    to me about a particular issue.  I eventually
>>>    realized that while it
>>>    wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
>>>    privacy as an adult
>>>    patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
>>>    room while I was seeing
>>>    the doctor.  I didn't actually take this stand
>>>    until I was 21 and in
>>>    hindsight I wish I had done  it much earlier.
>>>    By the time you are 18,
>>>    unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
>>>    you have a right to
>>>    privacy of your medical information and it is
>>>    important to establish a
>>>    good doctor-patient relationship without a third
>>>    person interfering.
>>>    This is especially true when it comes to sexual
>>>    health and by the time
>>>    you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
>>>    discussing your sexual
>>>    activities or questions with your doctors without
>>>    your parents being
>>>    around.  You might also want to consider getting a
>>>    driver or even
>>>    taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
>>>    this problem.
>>>    On a related note, by the time you are in high
>>>    school, you should know
>>>    the names of all medications you take on  a
>>>    regular basis and any
>>>    chronic medical conditions you may have.  If you
>>>    ever have to go to the
>>>    emergency room, this kind  of information may
>>>    be requested of you.
>>>    Best,
>>>    Arielle
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    nabs-l mailing list
>>>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>>>    your account info for nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>>>    iggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    nabs-l mailing list
>>>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>>>    your account info for nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi
>>>    %40samobile.net
>>>
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    nabs-l mailing list
>>>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>    account info for nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co
>>>    mcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    nabs-l mailing list
>>>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>    info for nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%
>>>    40yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    nabs-l mailing list
>>>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>   info for
>>>    nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>>>    iggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    nabs-l mailing list
>>>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>   info for
>>>    nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>    mail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    nabs-l mailing list
>>>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>   info for
>>>    nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>>>    iggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    nabs-l mailing list
>>>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>   info for nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>>    m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    nabs-l mailing list
>>>    nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>    http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>    To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>   info for nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list
>>>   s%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   nabs-l mailing list
>>>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>info
>>>   for nabs-l:
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>   se%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   nabs-l mailing list
>>>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>info for
>>>   nabs-l:
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17
>>>%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   nabs-l mailing list
>>>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>info for
>>>   nabs-l:
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>>>iggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   nabs-l mailing list
>>>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>info for
>>>   nabs-l:
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17
>>>%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   nabs-l mailing list
>>>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>info for
>>>   nabs-l:
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>>>iggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   nabs-l mailing list
>>>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>info for
>>>   nabs-l:
>>>
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>mail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for
>>>nabs-l:
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>>>iggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for nabs-l:
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92
>>>%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>nabs-l:
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
>
>--
>Take care,
>Ty
>http://tds-solutions.net
>The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; 
>he that dares not reason is a slave.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net





More information about the NABS-L mailing list