[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings
Carly Mihalakis
carlymih at comcast.net
Fri Sep 21 07:09:34 UTC 2012
Great, Ash!At 10:44 PM 9/20/2012, you wrote:
>Carley,
> Remember that one time you wrote something on here and I totally
>disagreed with pretty much everything you said? That didn't happen
>just now. I'm pretty much in complete agreement with your sentiments
>here.
>
>On 9/20/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Guys, it's not rocket science! A hesitance to just say "see" or any
> > of those so-called sighted verbs suggests to me that people are just
> > not getting over themselves, that folk are making this a bigger deal
> > than it need be. Therefore, it's little wonder ol' Sighty can't bring
> > himself to just know we can't see and leave it at that.
> > Car Ashley Bramlett wrote:
> >>Joshua,
> >>I see your point. But why can't you respond, I do watch tv in a
> >>different way with other senses or something like.
> >>IMO, people's reactions are no need to stop using the words referencing
> >> sight.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester
> >>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:08 AM
> >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted
> >>societyatsocial gatherings
> >>
> >>I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV,"
> >>I get, "How do you watch it?"
> >>When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke!
> >>It gets old!
> >>Blessings, Joshua
> >>
> >>________________________________________
> >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on
> >>behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM
> >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted
> >>societyatsocial gatherings
> >>
> >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what
> >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd
> >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate
> >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't
> >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we
> >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not
> >>helping by spurring that misconception on.
> >>
> >>On 9/19/12, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just
> >>>graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For
> >>>Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert
> >>>said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get
> >>>my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to
> >>>tv, dogs and horses
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700
> >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>>sighted societyatsocial gatherings
> >>>
> >>>Hello,
> >>>There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out
> >>>cultures.
> >>>For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in
> >>>conversation. It is
> >>>only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar
> >>>or more
> >>>heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew.
> >>>Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso
> >>>almost always.
> >>>
> >>>Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all
> >>>cultures. A
> >>>smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows,
> >>>big eyes
> >>>with mouth a little open is startled or scared.
> >>>Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in
> >>>front facing
> >>>up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a
> >>>balloon and
> >>>the string is on your finger...
> >>>
> >>>Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because
> >>>it means
> >>>one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem,
> >>>glee club,
> >>>getting in a relationship, dating...
> >>>
> >>>I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted
> >>>world without
> >>>some sighted help.
> >>>Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more
> >>>blind
> >>>people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or
> >>>parents will
> >>>help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and
> >>>with
> >>>questions like this they are invaluable...
> >>>Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over
> >>>your heart, as
> >>>if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are
> >>>terrified of
> >>>something?
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Arielle Silverman
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM
> >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>>sighted societyat
> >>>social gatherings
> >>>
> >>>Hi all,
> >>>Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv
> >>>called
> >>>"Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both
> >>>names
> >>>imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that
> >>>there is
> >>>only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that,
> >>>frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people
> >>>both.
> >>>I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a
> >>>nonjudgmental
> >>>forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations
> >>>and
> >>>get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a
> >>>place
> >>>where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way.
> >>>Also,
> >>>while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast
> >>>majority
> >>>of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep
> >>>teachers
> >>>and authority figures to a minimum.
> >>>I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or
> >>>"blind-dating" perhaps.
> >>>If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd
> >>>be
> >>>happy to help out with it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> >>>wrote:
> >>> Names:
> >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever)
> >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB)
> >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted)
> >>> talk sightless (TSightless)
> >>>
> >>> Just some names...
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Desiree Oudinot
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>>sighted
> >>> societyat
> >>>
> >>> social gatherings
> >>>
> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the
> >>>only thing
> >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't
> >>>really
> >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be
> >>>a cool
> >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to
> >>>go
> >>> that route.
> >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student
> >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of
> >>>contension on
> >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which
> >>>organization's
> >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating
> >>>situations
> >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so
> >>>choose,
> >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one.
> >>>I
> >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to
> >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their
> >>>social
> >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB
> >>>would help
> >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what
> >>>will
> >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on
> >>>doing
> >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would
> >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a
> >>>problem,
> >>> it's just something to consider.
> >>>
> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> >>>wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's
> >>>student and
> >>> NFB's
> >>>
> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same
> >>>things. So
> >>> I
> >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and
> >>>whatnot to
> >>> be
> >>>
> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would
> >>>jump at the
> >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing.
> >>> Just make a group, possibly:
> >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially
> >>>acceptable blind or
> >>>
> >>> a
> >>>
> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas?
> >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles
> >>>that
> >>> someone
> >>>
> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have.
> >>>Because this is
> >>> such a big issue.
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Desiree Oudinot
> >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>>sighted
> >>> societyat
> >>>
> >>> social gatherings
> >>>
> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to
> >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of
> >>>offending
> >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB
> >>>or
> >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no
> >>>matter
> >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how
> >>>they fit
> >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people,
> >>>whether
> >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as
> >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have
> >>>to
> >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as
> >>>anyone
> >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be
> >>>treated
> >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young,
> >>>and
> >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are
> >>>just as
> >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both
> >>>as our
> >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when
> >>>someone
> >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away.
> >>>
> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes:
> >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out
> >>>of
> >>> me because it just does for some reason.
> >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls
> >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us
> >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I
> >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and
> >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care
> >>>of
> >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my
> >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a
> >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand
> >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we
> >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind
> >>>woman
> >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since
> >>>Jason
> >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me
> >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or
> >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than
> >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I,
> >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad,
> >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working
> >>>for
> >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I
> >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different
> >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules
> >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home
> >>> wife. You will be poor." No way.
> >>> Beth
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>> sighted societyat social gatherings
> >>>
> >>> Chris wrote,
> >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules
> >>>which
> >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow
> >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we
> >>>are
> >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.
> >>>
> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural,
> >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one
> >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such
> >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety,
> >>> self-loathing, and anguish.
> >>>
> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago,
> >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I
> >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is
> >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is
> >>> interested.
> >>>
> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people
> >>>are
> >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can
> >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they
> >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of
> >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we
> >>>can
> >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the
> >>>message
> >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel
> >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the
> >>>formation
> >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings,
> >>>and
> >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair,
> >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis.
> >>>
> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting
> >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's
> >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this
> >>>has
> >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of
> >>>mostly
> >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men
> >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women.
> >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the
> >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot,
> >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as
> >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the
> >>>effort
> >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more
> >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called
> >>>right
> >>> way to act.
> >>>
> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform
> >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed
> >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't
> >>>judge
> >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the
> >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge
> >>>someone
> >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical
> >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being
> >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming
> >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we
> >>>should
> >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind
> >>>people
> >>> how to look and act like sighted people.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Marc
> >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum
> >>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Brandon and all,
> >>>
> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this
> >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has
> >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we
> >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's
> >>> message.
> >>>
> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
> >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
> >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
> >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
> >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
> >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents
> >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
> >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
> >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
> >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
> >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
> >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
> >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it
> >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
> >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what
> >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
> >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the
> >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut
> >>>out
> >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
> >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very
> >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this
> >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
> >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
> >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for
> >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
> >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind
> >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic
> >>>of
> >>> a future NABS membership call.
> >>>
> >>> Just my thoughts,
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
> >>> sex. There is
> >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one
> >>>with
> >>> some
> >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
> >>> :)
> >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
> >>> sighted
> >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by
> >>>the
> >>> blind
> >>> community.
> >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth
> >>>or
> >>> not) have
> >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally
> >>> against the grain
> >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
> >>> suggested that
> >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
> >>> world thinks.
> >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
> >>> looks at a
> >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so
> >>>weird.
> >>> or a
> >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to
> >>> him and when
> >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
> >>> really weird and
> >>> she turns around and walks a mile away.
> >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
> >>> both sexual
> >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need
> >>> of attention
> >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular.
> >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
> >>> aren't meant
> >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems
> >>> would greatly
> >>> improve convention.
> >>> Thank you,
> >>>
> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Arielle Silverman
> >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
> >>> Whozit
> >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are
> >>>probably
> >>> some
> >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel
> >>>that
> >>> NABS
> >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual
> >>>activity
> >>> among
> >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that
> >>> position,
> >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by
> >>> extension, an
> >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
> >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
> >>> or
> >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate.
> >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
> >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general,
> >>>and
> >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
> >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a
> >>> diversity
> >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
> >>> available
> >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in
> >>> fact,
> >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general
> >>>workshop
> >>> about
> >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having.
> >>> Arielle
> >>>
> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people
> >>>have
> >>> never
> >>> seen
> >>>
> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
> >>> having to
> >>> be
> >>>
> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
> >>> condoms in
> >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
> >>> browsing...
> >>> Condoms,
> >>>
> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
> >>> probably need
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put
> >>>on
> >>> a condom
> >>> or
> >>>
> >>> use a dental dam.
> >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial.
> >>>The
> >>> packing
> >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and
> >>>I
> >>> for one
> >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
> >>> that sell
> >>> hot
> >>>
> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved
> >>>to
> >>> buy a box
> >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
> >>> (Then of
> >>> course
> >>>
> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who
> >>>didn't
> >>> bring
> >>> their
> >>>
> >>> own utensil's).
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Anmol Bhatia
> >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
> >>> convention...
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can
> >>>even
> >>> braille
> >>> them
> >>>
> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol
> >>>
> >>> Anmol
> >>>
> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
> >>>sad.
> >>> Perhaps
> >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> >>> like a breeze
> >>> among flowers.
> >>> Hellen Keller
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
> >>> mailing
> >>> list"
> >>>
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
> >>> Hi, Brandon,
> >>>
> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on
> >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
> >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
> >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I
> >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
> >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
> >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
> >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it,
> >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
> >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
> >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
> >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
> >>>
> >>> Respectfully,
> >>> Jedi
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
> >>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
> >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
> >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
> >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That
> >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
> >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel
> >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
> >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
> >>> knows that site is trust worthy.
> >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
> >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I
> >>> presume?
> >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
> >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
> >>> the experience is often not pleasant.
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle
> >>> Silverman
> >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
> >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
> >>> are kind of in a
> >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
> >>> for this list, since
> >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
> >>> unique to blindness.
> >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
> >>> too far afield, I
> >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I
> >>> also think that
> >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
> >>> legitimate one and
> >>> that there might be other blind people out here,
> >>> including teenagers,
> >>> who have similar concerns about how to get
> >>> condoms, birth control or
> >>> sexual health information without a lot of
> >>> awkwardness or
> >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if
> >>> you have to depend
> >>> on someone else (especially parents) for
> >>> transportation which can make
> >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
> >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online,
> >>> including
> >>> www.condomania.com
> >>> www.undercovercondoms.com
> >>> and
> >>> www.condomdepot.com
> >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom
> >>> choices at
> >>> www.amazon.com
> >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any
> >>> reason, it shouldn't
> >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there
> >>> about condoms.
> >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
> >>> having sex with a
> >>> partner because that is a highly individual
> >>> decision. However, I feel
> >>> it important that anyone who is considering having
> >>> sex for the first
> >>> time ensure you understand what all of your
> >>> options are for preventing
> >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
> >>> advantages and
> >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
> >>> to use condoms and
> >>> birth control. There are a couple different
> >>> websites with this kind
> >>> of information:
> >>> www.plannedparenthood.org
> >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
> >>> or
> >>> www.scarleteen.com
> >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at
> >>> the moment because my
> >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
> >>> pregnancy at a very
> >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a
> >>> guy she had only
> >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking
> >>> birth control pills,
> >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I
> >>> don't believe that
> >>> sex should be feared, it is something that
> >>> takes some responsibility,
> >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
> >>> while minimizing the
> >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here,
> >>> there are other ways
> >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are
> >>> less risky, which
> >>> these online forums will talk about.
> >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is
> >>> somewhat relevant to sexual
> >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some
> >>> of you might also be
> >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your
> >>> parents drive you to
> >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to
> >>> sit in or even
> >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended
> >>> college in my home
> >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
> >>> doctors' appointments
> >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the
> >>> doctor while he/she
> >>> was examining me. This was partly because my
> >>> parents and I saw many of
> >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a
> >>> good opportunity to
> >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own
> >>> health while she was
> >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the
> >>> doctor recommended
> >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually
> >>> realized that while it
> >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
> >>> privacy as an adult
> >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
> >>> room while I was seeing
> >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand
> >>> until I was 21 and in
> >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier.
> >>> By the time you are 18,
> >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
> >>> you have a right to
> >>> privacy of your medical information and it is
> >>> important to establish a
> >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third
> >>> person interfering.
> >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual
> >>> health and by the time
> >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
> >>> discussing your sexual
> >>> activities or questions with your doctors without
> >>> your parents being
> >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a
> >>> driver or even
> >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
> >>> this problem.
> >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high
> >>> school, you should know
> >>> the names of all medications you take on a
> >>> regular basis and any
> >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you
> >>> ever have to go to the
> >>> emergency room, this kind of information may
> >>> be requested of you.
> >>> Best,
> >>> Arielle
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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