[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings
Ashley Bramlett
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Fri Sep 21 13:12:19 UTC 2012
Carley and Kirt,
I suggest that we use the verbs see and watch. that is my point. Why not use
the typical vocabulary. I think saying "hear you later" or "I listen to tv"
sounds kind of odd.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:44 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted
societyatsocial gatherings
Carley,
Remember that one time you wrote something on here and I totally
disagreed with pretty much everything you said? That didn't happen
just now. I'm pretty much in complete agreement with your sentiments
here.
On 9/20/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Guys, it's not rocket science! A hesitance to just say "see" or any
> of those so-called sighted verbs suggests to me that people are just
> not getting over themselves, that folk are making this a bigger deal
> than it need be. Therefore, it's little wonder ol' Sighty can't bring
> himself to just know we can't see and leave it at that.
> Car Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>>Joshua,
>>I see your point. But why can't you respond, I do watch tv in a
>>different way with other senses or something like.
>>IMO, people's reactions are no need to stop using the words referencing
>> sight.
>>
>>-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester
>>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:08 AM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted
>>societyatsocial gatherings
>>
>>I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV,"
>>I get, "How do you watch it?"
>>When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke!
>>It gets old!
>>Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>________________________________________
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on
>>behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted
>>societyatsocial gatherings
>>
>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what
>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd
>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate
>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't
>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we
>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not
>>helping by spurring that misconception on.
>>
>>On 9/19/12, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just
>>>graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For
>>>Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert
>>>said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get
>>>my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to
>>>tv, dogs and horses
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>sighted societyatsocial gatherings
>>>
>>>Hello,
>>>There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out
>>>cultures.
>>>For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in
>>>conversation. It is
>>>only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar
>>>or more
>>>heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew.
>>>Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso
>>>almost always.
>>>
>>>Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all
>>>cultures. A
>>>smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows,
>>>big eyes
>>>with mouth a little open is startled or scared.
>>>Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in
>>>front facing
>>>up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a
>>>balloon and
>>>the string is on your finger...
>>>
>>>Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because
>>>it means
>>>one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem,
>>>glee club,
>>>getting in a relationship, dating...
>>>
>>>I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted
>>>world without
>>>some sighted help.
>>>Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more
>>>blind
>>>people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or
>>>parents will
>>>help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and
>>>with
>>>questions like this they are invaluable...
>>>Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over
>>>your heart, as
>>>if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are
>>>terrified of
>>>something?
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Arielle Silverman
>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM
>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>sighted societyat
>>>social gatherings
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv
>>>called
>>>"Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both
>>>names
>>>imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that
>>>there is
>>>only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that,
>>>frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people
>>>both.
>>>I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a
>>>nonjudgmental
>>>forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations
>>>and
>>>get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a
>>>place
>>>where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way.
>>>Also,
>>>while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast
>>>majority
>>>of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep
>>>teachers
>>>and authority figures to a minimum.
>>>I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or
>>>"blind-dating" perhaps.
>>>If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd
>>>be
>>>happy to help out with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>> Names:
>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever)
>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB)
>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted)
>>> talk sightless (TSightless)
>>>
>>> Just some names...
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Desiree Oudinot
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>sighted
>>> societyat
>>>
>>> social gatherings
>>>
>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the
>>>only thing
>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't
>>>really
>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be
>>>a cool
>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to
>>>go
>>> that route.
>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student
>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of
>>>contension on
>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which
>>>organization's
>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating
>>>situations
>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so
>>>choose,
>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one.
>>>I
>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to
>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their
>>>social
>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB
>>>would help
>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what
>>>will
>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on
>>>doing
>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would
>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a
>>>problem,
>>> it's just something to consider.
>>>
>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's
>>>student and
>>> NFB's
>>>
>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same
>>>things. So
>>> I
>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and
>>>whatnot to
>>> be
>>>
>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would
>>>jump at the
>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing.
>>> Just make a group, possibly:
>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially
>>>acceptable blind or
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas?
>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles
>>>that
>>> someone
>>>
>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have.
>>>Because this is
>>> such a big issue.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Desiree Oudinot
>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>sighted
>>> societyat
>>>
>>> social gatherings
>>>
>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to
>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of
>>>offending
>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB
>>>or
>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no
>>>matter
>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how
>>>they fit
>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people,
>>>whether
>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as
>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have
>>>to
>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as
>>>anyone
>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be
>>>treated
>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young,
>>>and
>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are
>>>just as
>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both
>>>as our
>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when
>>>someone
>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away.
>>>
>>> On 9/14/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes:
>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out
>>>of
>>> me because it just does for some reason.
>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls
>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us
>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I
>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and
>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care
>>>of
>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my
>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a
>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand
>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we
>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind
>>>woman
>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since
>>>Jason
>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me
>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or
>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than
>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I,
>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad,
>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working
>>>for
>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I
>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different
>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules
>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home
>>> wife. You will be poor." No way.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>> sighted societyat social gatherings
>>>
>>> Chris wrote,
>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules
>>>which
>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow
>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we
>>>are
>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural,
>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one
>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such
>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety,
>>> self-loathing, and anguish.
>>>
>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago,
>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I
>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is
>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is
>>> interested.
>>>
>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people
>>>are
>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can
>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they
>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of
>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we
>>>can
>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the
>>>message
>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel
>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the
>>>formation
>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings,
>>>and
>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair,
>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis.
>>>
>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting
>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's
>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this
>>>has
>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of
>>>mostly
>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men
>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women.
>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the
>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot,
>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as
>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the
>>>effort
>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more
>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called
>>>right
>>> way to act.
>>>
>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform
>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed
>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't
>>>judge
>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the
>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge
>>>someone
>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical
>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being
>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming
>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we
>>>should
>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind
>>>people
>>> how to look and act like sighted people.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Marc
>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum
>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Brandon and all,
>>>
>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this
>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has
>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we
>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's
>>> message.
>>>
>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents
>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it
>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what
>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the
>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut
>>>out
>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very
>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this
>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for
>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind
>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic
>>>of
>>> a future NABS membership call.
>>>
>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
>>> sex. There is
>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one
>>>with
>>> some
>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
>>> :)
>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
>>> sighted
>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by
>>>the
>>> blind
>>> community.
>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth
>>>or
>>> not) have
>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally
>>> against the grain
>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
>>> suggested that
>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
>>> world thinks.
>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
>>> looks at a
>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so
>>>weird.
>>> or a
>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to
>>> him and when
>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
>>> really weird and
>>> she turns around and walks a mile away.
>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
>>> both sexual
>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need
>>> of attention
>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular.
>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
>>> aren't meant
>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems
>>> would greatly
>>> improve convention.
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
>>> Whozit
>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are
>>>probably
>>> some
>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel
>>>that
>>> NABS
>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual
>>>activity
>>> among
>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that
>>> position,
>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by
>>> extension, an
>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
>>> or
>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate.
>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general,
>>>and
>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a
>>> diversity
>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
>>> available
>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in
>>> fact,
>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general
>>>workshop
>>> about
>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people
>>>have
>>> never
>>> seen
>>>
>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
>>> having to
>>> be
>>>
>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
>>> condoms in
>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
>>> browsing...
>>> Condoms,
>>>
>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
>>> probably need
>>> to
>>>
>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put
>>>on
>>> a condom
>>> or
>>>
>>> use a dental dam.
>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial.
>>>The
>>> packing
>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and
>>>I
>>> for one
>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
>>> that sell
>>> hot
>>>
>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved
>>>to
>>> buy a box
>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
>>> (Then of
>>> course
>>>
>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who
>>>didn't
>>> bring
>>> their
>>>
>>> own utensil's).
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Anmol Bhatia
>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>
>>>
>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
>>> convention...
>>>
>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can
>>>even
>>> braille
>>> them
>>>
>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol
>>>
>>> Anmol
>>>
>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
>>>sad.
>>> Perhaps
>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>> like a breeze
>>> among flowers.
>>> Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing
>>> list"
>>>
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
>>> Hi, Brandon,
>>>
>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on
>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I
>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it,
>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Jedi
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That
>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel
>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
>>> knows that site is trust worthy.
>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I
>>> presume?
>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
>>> the experience is often not pleasant.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle
>>> Silverman
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
>>> are kind of in a
>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
>>> for this list, since
>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
>>> unique to blindness.
>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
>>> too far afield, I
>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I
>>> also think that
>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
>>> legitimate one and
>>> that there might be other blind people out here,
>>> including teenagers,
>>> who have similar concerns about how to get
>>> condoms, birth control or
>>> sexual health information without a lot of
>>> awkwardness or
>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if
>>> you have to depend
>>> on someone else (especially parents) for
>>> transportation which can make
>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online,
>>> including
>>> www.condomania.com
>>> www.undercovercondoms.com
>>> and
>>> www.condomdepot.com
>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom
>>> choices at
>>> www.amazon.com
>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any
>>> reason, it shouldn't
>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there
>>> about condoms.
>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
>>> having sex with a
>>> partner because that is a highly individual
>>> decision. However, I feel
>>> it important that anyone who is considering having
>>> sex for the first
>>> time ensure you understand what all of your
>>> options are for preventing
>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
>>> advantages and
>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
>>> to use condoms and
>>> birth control. There are a couple different
>>> websites with this kind
>>> of information:
>>> www.plannedparenthood.org
>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
>>> or
>>> www.scarleteen.com
>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at
>>> the moment because my
>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
>>> pregnancy at a very
>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a
>>> guy she had only
>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking
>>> birth control pills,
>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I
>>> don't believe that
>>> sex should be feared, it is something that
>>> takes some responsibility,
>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
>>> while minimizing the
>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here,
>>> there are other ways
>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are
>>> less risky, which
>>> these online forums will talk about.
>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is
>>> somewhat relevant to sexual
>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some
>>> of you might also be
>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your
>>> parents drive you to
>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to
>>> sit in or even
>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended
>>> college in my home
>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
>>> doctors' appointments
>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the
>>> doctor while he/she
>>> was examining me. This was partly because my
>>> parents and I saw many of
>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a
>>> good opportunity to
>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own
>>> health while she was
>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the
>>> doctor recommended
>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually
>>> realized that while it
>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
>>> privacy as an adult
>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
>>> room while I was seeing
>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand
>>> until I was 21 and in
>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier.
>>> By the time you are 18,
>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
>>> you have a right to
>>> privacy of your medical information and it is
>>> important to establish a
>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third
>>> person interfering.
>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual
>>> health and by the time
>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
>>> discussing your sexual
>>> activities or questions with your doctors without
>>> your parents being
>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a
>>> driver or even
>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
>>> this problem.
>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high
>>> school, you should know
>>> the names of all medications you take on a
>>> regular basis and any
>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you
>>> ever have to go to the
>>> emergency room, this kind of information may
>>> be requested of you.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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