[nabs-l] canes and water park rides

Kirt Manwaring kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Tue Apr 2 16:00:13 UTC 2013


Justin,
  Apparently, that's what she would have to do if she was going to a
water park.  :)  If her dog can't stand being separated, and she's
forced to take him everywhere, it seems the only choice.
  Best,
Kirt

On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> You understand that everyone's situation is different.  Your alright with
> me
> man.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 1:24 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>
> Justin,
>   Exactly.  For me, and I'm only speaking for myself, but being forced
> to take my dog wherever I went, or not being able to leave him home
> when the situation seemed to warrant it, doesn't appear to work all
> that well.  I'm going to make a generalization, and I realize there
> are plenty of acceptions to what I'm about to say.  Still, I think
> it's worth mentioning, if for no other reason than because it really
> applied to me personally.  Also, I should probably say that I'm not
> lumping Sarah or anybody else specific on this list into what I'm
> about to say because...well, I don't know most of you in real life, so
> who am I to judge?
>   Still, I've seen lots of blind people who get dogs because their
> mobility skills aren't up to par and they want a cure.  I have plenty
> of  friends and acquaintances who use dogs because they don't feel
> confident in their ability to travel without them; sadly, to me, this
> seems the rule more than the exception.  It kind of makes my heart
> hurt a little bit when I see friends shy away from new places and
> experiences just because their dogs prefer to stay in familiar areas.
> Again, from what I've seen, this seems to be what happens more often
> than not.  I'm not saying a dog isn't a legitimate option; I can see
> the advantages of traveling with one and, while they aren't enough to
> convince me to become a dog user, they are certainly real.  I'm just
> saying that, if someone isn't a confident and comfortable traveler
> already, having a dog won't magically make up for it.  Sadly, many (if
> not most) guide dog users I know weren't confident travelers to begin
> with, so they got a dog instead of getting quality training.  Of
> course, I know a whole bunch of cane users with the same problem, so
> it's certainly not the dog's fault if the handler can't get where
> he/she needs to go.  I guess all I'm saying, and I'm sure most
> competent dog users will wholeheartedly agree, is that getting a good
> dog is no substitute for getting good training...but now I'm wondering
> what any of this has to do with riding rollercoasters and water
> slides.  :)
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Cane, dog,  what works.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
> Manwaring
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:44 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>
>> Sarah,
>>   I know I'm going to spark an age-old debate, and possibly get
>> reprimanded for being off-topic, but I don't really care right now.  I
>> don't mean this condescendingly or judgmentally...but, Sarah, the next
>> time someone asks me why I'm not a dog user, I want to have your
>> e-mails on hand because they would make my case far better than I
>> possibly could.  (and, yes, I'm aware how ironic this will sound to
>> anybody who remembers the stir I created a while back because I wanted
>> to get a dog and bring him...or her...or whatever to a training
>> center.)
>>   And, please, before anybody gets their knickers all twisted up over
>> this, I'm definitely not anti-dog.  I know some fantastic travelers
>> who happen to be dog users; I also know some terrible travelers who
>> happen to use canes instead.  My point is simply that, having the
>> personality I do where I want to wait my turn like most everyone else,
>> and hearing the kinds of stories I do from Sarah and from most dog
>> users I'm acquainted with about how ansy/skiddish/uncomfortable/needy
>> their dogs are, I'm pretty darn sure I made the right decision for
>> myself.  This isn't a condemnation, much as some people might construe
>> it as one.  Canes can certainly bring issues of their own...but my
>> straight cane won't have a panic attack if I decide to leave it at
>> home and take my folding cane instead, and vice-versa.
>>   Anyways, sorry for the rambling...I'm trying to find every possible
>> excuse I can to distract me from my political science homework,
>> because Plato's Republic is really hurting my fragile little head
>> right now.  :)  I really didn't mean this as a knock against competent
>> dog-users or, really, against Sarah at all.  I just meant to say how
>> stories like this reinforce my belief that, in choosing not to get a
>> guide dog, I think I made the right decision for me.
>>   Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 4/1/13, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> i can't leave Wizard hoc alone when I go to parks he freaks out
>>> when I leave him for a few hours to go to a friend's house.
>>> Besides his trainers told me to none leave him alone unsupervised
>>> for more than an hour inr 2.
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:08:50 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>> Perhaps you shouldn't bring Wizard under those circumstances?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Sarah
>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:32 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>> I'm not making my guide dog wait 4 hours for one ride in the
>>> uncomfortable
>>> hot weather.  Besides, all the ride operators know me at the park
>>> anyways.
>>> I never waited in line before I did for like 2 hours because X2
>>> broke down
>>> and sy had to replace a wheel.
>>> But I'm not making Wizard wait in line er 4 hours  for each ride.
>>> It's like 2 or 4 hours for each ride and I bought an immediate
>>> boarding
>>> pass.  All I have to do is show the paper I bought to the
>>> operator if they
>>> don't know me already, and they let me on.
>>> People are just jealous because they can't do it!
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:18:14 -0600
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>> Sarah,
>>>   I know you're going to get a lot of flack for what you just
>>> said, so I'll
>>> do my best to be gentle.  I know each person's situation is
>>> different, so
>>> I'm not judging every blind person who chooses to take that extra
>>> perk and
>>> cut through line; for all I know, there really is some other
>>> disability or
>>> legitimate need for that accommodation with some of us, so
>>> farbeit from me
>>> to condemn everyone wholesale for making that choice.  Still, and
>>> I feel
>>> very strongly about this, if you are capable of waiting in line
>>> with
>>> everybody else, you should.
>>> Period.  In the past, there have been a few times where I've
>>> caved in to
>>> family pressure and broken my own rule; I'm not proud of it, I
>>> don't always
>>> measure up to my own standards here, but I nevertheless believe
>>> very
>>> passionately that we should not take "accommodation"
>>> where we do not need it.  If you had no real need to cut in line,
>>> and it
>>> sounds like you didn't if you've been able to wait in long lines
>>> before (if
>>> I'm wrong please forgive me), you shouldn't have.
>>> That's
>>> my opinion, I'm not trying to be harsh because I've certainly
>>> skipped in
>>> line a few times before (and invariably felt ashamed afterwords),
>>> but
>>> accommodation is only real accommodation if it serves a real
>>> need.
>>>  We have enough real needs already to go around taking advantage
>>> of things
>>> that just aren't necessary.  Not only is it a waste but it can,
>>> if we aren't
>>> careful, send totally the wrong message about blindness.
>>> Our reputation as people who take and take, without giving back,
>>> isn't
>>> entirely unjustified.  If we want to be treated equally, we
>>> _have_ to have
>>> it both ways.  If we want equal treatment, we have equal
>>> responsibility.
>>> Much as this might seem menial, or irrelevant to the larger
>>> problems we
>>> face, waiting in lines is a drudgery that we ought to accept
>>> cheerfully (or
>>> at least grudgingly) if we really want equal access to amusement
>>> parks.  I
>>> think, for many blind people, the attitude which says it's okay
>>> to cut in
>>> line even though we could wait like everyone else is indicative
>>> of a far,
>>> far larger problem.  I am, of course, referring to the idea that
>>> we are
>>> entitled to special treatment and superior, not equal access.  We
>>> wouldn't
>>> phrase it that way...but when we're asking for unnecessary
>>> extended time for
>>> assignments (I'm not implying that all extended time is
>>> unnecessary),
>>> demanding the right to a dedicated person to take our notes for
>>> us, begging
>>> rehab for every piece of the newest and greatest technology and,
>>> yes,
>>> cutting in lines at amusement parks...isn't that what we're
>>> really saying?
>>> Just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.
>>>   Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 4/1/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  So they let you cut through the line with a dog, but not with a
>>> cane?
>>>  Interesting.
>>>
>>>  Chris
>>>
>>>  Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>  Public Relations Committee
>>>  Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>  Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Sarah
>>>  Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 9:40 PM
>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>>  Because with my dog, they let me right on, and they watch the
>>> dog very
>>> carefully even when someone else is holding it so nobody pets it
>>> while
>>> you're on the ride.  With a cane, they will just say "Wait 4
>>> hours like
>>> everyone else."
>>>
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>  To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 21:26:25 -0400
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>>  Sarah,
>>>
>>>  Just curious: how is Six Flags more accommodating to a guide dog
>>> user than
>>> to a cane user?
>>>
>>>  Chris
>>>
>>>  Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>  Public Relations Committee
>>>  Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>  Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Sarah Meeks
>>>  Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:56 PM
>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>  Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>>  My best amusement park experience has always been Six Flags.
>>>  They are very
>>>  accommodating.  There you are more accommodating now that I have
>>> a dog.
>>>
>>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>  On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>   Hi,
>>>
>>>   Yay for Disney!  they were by far my best park experience.  I
>>> went  twice
>>> as a little kid.  The first time I went I was five or six and my
>>> parents
>>> also had a baby in a stroller, so the practice for both me and my
>>> sister
>>> was to hold onto our brother's stroller to keep with our parents
>>> and not
>>> get lost.  My parents just gave me verbal direction  and were
>>> with me the
>>> entire time, so there really wasn't a major need  for a cane.
>>> When I went
>>>  again as an older kid though, I did have a  folding cane and the
>>> Disney
>>> staff was very good about either showing  me tricks to keep it
>>> with me or
>>> holding it and then giving it back to  me when I got off, even on
>>> water
>>> rides like Splash Mountain and the  Pirates of the Caribbean
>>> rides which
>>> start in one place and end at  another.  If you have a folding
>>> cane you can
>>> secure it folded with the  loop and then put your wrist through
>>> the cane
>>> and  the strap and just  let it hang as you hold onto something.
>>> It won't
>>> flop  around as much  as the telescopic cane.  Also, the holster
>>> idea sounds
>>> good,  although  some park personelle at other amusement parks
>>> get worried
>>> about  it  coming lose.  Either way, you shouldn't have any
>>> problems with
>>> getting  the ride people to bring you your cane at the ride exit.
>>>
>>>   By the way, Universal Studios was excellent about working with
>>> the  cane
>>> too.  I went there in the same vacation that I went to Disney for
>>> the
>>> second time and they were very accomodating.
>>>
>>>   On 4/1/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>   Sophie,
>>>    I'm one of those random oddballs who would probably go alone
>>> if I  was
>>> traveling, and there was a really cool theme park near by.
>>>  I
>>>   know it's not for everyone, but occasionally doing those kinds
>>> of "social"
>>>   things by myself is fun for me; both to keep my confidence up
>>> and to  meet
>>> people that I otherwise wouldn't get to know.
>>>    Anyways, I've taken my straight cane to theme parks no
>>> problem, but  I'll
>>> confess I haven't tried a water park with it yet.  A collapsible
>>> or  folding
>>> cane seems more reasonable to me there.  On rollercoasters  or
>>> big rides
>>> like that, I've almost always just given my straight  cane to the
>>> ride
>>> attendant and picked it up when the ride is done,  but those
>>> rides usually
>>> start and end at the same place.
>>>  Waterslides
>>>   and things are different though, obviously.
>>>    Basically, I've been reading this thread to see what useful
>>> bits I  could
>>> glean from it, as I'll probably be going to a few water parks
>>> myself over
>>> the summer.  Maybe this will finally give me the  motivation I
>>> need to buy
>>> another collapsible or NFB folding cane.  (I  actually liked mine
>>> for the
>>> year or so it lasted, but I used it  sparingly and certainly not
>>> as my
>>> primary cane.)  Thanks, all, for  the help and suggewstions.
>>>    Best,
>>>   Kirt
>>>
>>>   On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>   I would where a belt around my bathing suit, and Use a folding
>>> cane  with
>>> a  holster.
>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>>   From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Cindy
>>> Bennett
>>>   Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 4:25 PM
>>>   To: National Asociation of Blind Students
>>>   Subject: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>>   Hi everyone,
>>>
>>>   This summer, I am going to a water park.  When I go to theme
>>> parks, I
>>> typically store my cane somewhere outside the ride area or on the
>>> exit
>>> side  of a roller coaster platform.  However, many water rides
>>> are such
>>> that you  get on the ride in a different location, often  quite a
>>> walk away,
>>> from the  place where you get off of the ride.
>>>  My
>>>   cane is too long to fit in many inner tubes, and I doubt that
>>> it  would be
>>> a safe thing to bring along especially if it came loose.
>>>
>>>   I am wondering if a telescoping cane would be the best for
>>> this,  because
>>> I  know that many water rides have shoe holders.  It would  just
>>> be
>>> annoying,  because I would have to rely on someone to guide  me
>>> back to
>>> these shoe  holders that are often at the entrance of the ride.
>>>
>>>   So what are your suggestions for storing a cane during water
>>> rides?
>>>
>>>   Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>>   Cindy Bennett
>>>   Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative
>>>   Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>>>
>>>   B.A.  Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>   clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>
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>>>
>>>   --
>>>   Kaiti
>>>
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