[nabs-l] canes and water park rides
Kirt Manwaring
kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Tue Apr 2 16:01:48 UTC 2013
Okay...maybe that was unduly harsh, and I apologize. I'm sure even
the most needy dogs could probably deal with someone else watching
them for two or three minutes while their handler goes down a water
slide. I'll freely admit when I say something irrational or silly,
and this was one of those times I think.
On 4/2/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Justin,
> Apparently, that's what she would have to do if she was going to a
> water park. :) If her dog can't stand being separated, and she's
> forced to take him everywhere, it seems the only choice.
> Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You understand that everyone's situation is different. Your alright with
>> me
>> man.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>> Manwaring
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 1:24 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>
>> Justin,
>> Exactly. For me, and I'm only speaking for myself, but being forced
>> to take my dog wherever I went, or not being able to leave him home
>> when the situation seemed to warrant it, doesn't appear to work all
>> that well. I'm going to make a generalization, and I realize there
>> are plenty of acceptions to what I'm about to say. Still, I think
>> it's worth mentioning, if for no other reason than because it really
>> applied to me personally. Also, I should probably say that I'm not
>> lumping Sarah or anybody else specific on this list into what I'm
>> about to say because...well, I don't know most of you in real life, so
>> who am I to judge?
>> Still, I've seen lots of blind people who get dogs because their
>> mobility skills aren't up to par and they want a cure. I have plenty
>> of friends and acquaintances who use dogs because they don't feel
>> confident in their ability to travel without them; sadly, to me, this
>> seems the rule more than the exception. It kind of makes my heart
>> hurt a little bit when I see friends shy away from new places and
>> experiences just because their dogs prefer to stay in familiar areas.
>> Again, from what I've seen, this seems to be what happens more often
>> than not. I'm not saying a dog isn't a legitimate option; I can see
>> the advantages of traveling with one and, while they aren't enough to
>> convince me to become a dog user, they are certainly real. I'm just
>> saying that, if someone isn't a confident and comfortable traveler
>> already, having a dog won't magically make up for it. Sadly, many (if
>> not most) guide dog users I know weren't confident travelers to begin
>> with, so they got a dog instead of getting quality training. Of
>> course, I know a whole bunch of cane users with the same problem, so
>> it's certainly not the dog's fault if the handler can't get where
>> he/she needs to go. I guess all I'm saying, and I'm sure most
>> competent dog users will wholeheartedly agree, is that getting a good
>> dog is no substitute for getting good training...but now I'm wondering
>> what any of this has to do with riding rollercoasters and water
>> slides. :)
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Cane, dog, what works.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>> Manwaring
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:44 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>> Sarah,
>>> I know I'm going to spark an age-old debate, and possibly get
>>> reprimanded for being off-topic, but I don't really care right now. I
>>> don't mean this condescendingly or judgmentally...but, Sarah, the next
>>> time someone asks me why I'm not a dog user, I want to have your
>>> e-mails on hand because they would make my case far better than I
>>> possibly could. (and, yes, I'm aware how ironic this will sound to
>>> anybody who remembers the stir I created a while back because I wanted
>>> to get a dog and bring him...or her...or whatever to a training
>>> center.)
>>> And, please, before anybody gets their knickers all twisted up over
>>> this, I'm definitely not anti-dog. I know some fantastic travelers
>>> who happen to be dog users; I also know some terrible travelers who
>>> happen to use canes instead. My point is simply that, having the
>>> personality I do where I want to wait my turn like most everyone else,
>>> and hearing the kinds of stories I do from Sarah and from most dog
>>> users I'm acquainted with about how ansy/skiddish/uncomfortable/needy
>>> their dogs are, I'm pretty darn sure I made the right decision for
>>> myself. This isn't a condemnation, much as some people might construe
>>> it as one. Canes can certainly bring issues of their own...but my
>>> straight cane won't have a panic attack if I decide to leave it at
>>> home and take my folding cane instead, and vice-versa.
>>> Anyways, sorry for the rambling...I'm trying to find every possible
>>> excuse I can to distract me from my political science homework,
>>> because Plato's Republic is really hurting my fragile little head
>>> right now. :) I really didn't mean this as a knock against competent
>>> dog-users or, really, against Sarah at all. I just meant to say how
>>> stories like this reinforce my belief that, in choosing not to get a
>>> guide dog, I think I made the right decision for me.
>>> Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 4/1/13, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> i can't leave Wizard hoc alone when I go to parks he freaks out
>>>> when I leave him for a few hours to go to a friend's house.
>>>> Besides his trainers told me to none leave him alone unsupervised
>>>> for more than an hour inr 2.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:08:50 -0700
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you shouldn't bring Wizard under those circumstances?
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Sarah
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:32 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>
>>>> I'm not making my guide dog wait 4 hours for one ride in the
>>>> uncomfortable
>>>> hot weather. Besides, all the ride operators know me at the park
>>>> anyways.
>>>> I never waited in line before I did for like 2 hours because X2
>>>> broke down
>>>> and sy had to replace a wheel.
>>>> But I'm not making Wizard wait in line er 4 hours for each ride.
>>>> It's like 2 or 4 hours for each ride and I bought an immediate
>>>> boarding
>>>> pass. All I have to do is show the paper I bought to the
>>>> operator if they
>>>> don't know me already, and they let me on.
>>>> People are just jealous because they can't do it!
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:18:14 -0600
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>
>>>> Sarah,
>>>> I know you're going to get a lot of flack for what you just
>>>> said, so I'll
>>>> do my best to be gentle. I know each person's situation is
>>>> different, so
>>>> I'm not judging every blind person who chooses to take that extra
>>>> perk and
>>>> cut through line; for all I know, there really is some other
>>>> disability or
>>>> legitimate need for that accommodation with some of us, so
>>>> farbeit from me
>>>> to condemn everyone wholesale for making that choice. Still, and
>>>> I feel
>>>> very strongly about this, if you are capable of waiting in line
>>>> with
>>>> everybody else, you should.
>>>> Period. In the past, there have been a few times where I've
>>>> caved in to
>>>> family pressure and broken my own rule; I'm not proud of it, I
>>>> don't always
>>>> measure up to my own standards here, but I nevertheless believe
>>>> very
>>>> passionately that we should not take "accommodation"
>>>> where we do not need it. If you had no real need to cut in line,
>>>> and it
>>>> sounds like you didn't if you've been able to wait in long lines
>>>> before (if
>>>> I'm wrong please forgive me), you shouldn't have.
>>>> That's
>>>> my opinion, I'm not trying to be harsh because I've certainly
>>>> skipped in
>>>> line a few times before (and invariably felt ashamed afterwords),
>>>> but
>>>> accommodation is only real accommodation if it serves a real
>>>> need.
>>>> We have enough real needs already to go around taking advantage
>>>> of things
>>>> that just aren't necessary. Not only is it a waste but it can,
>>>> if we aren't
>>>> careful, send totally the wrong message about blindness.
>>>> Our reputation as people who take and take, without giving back,
>>>> isn't
>>>> entirely unjustified. If we want to be treated equally, we
>>>> _have_ to have
>>>> it both ways. If we want equal treatment, we have equal
>>>> responsibility.
>>>> Much as this might seem menial, or irrelevant to the larger
>>>> problems we
>>>> face, waiting in lines is a drudgery that we ought to accept
>>>> cheerfully (or
>>>> at least grudgingly) if we really want equal access to amusement
>>>> parks. I
>>>> think, for many blind people, the attitude which says it's okay
>>>> to cut in
>>>> line even though we could wait like everyone else is indicative
>>>> of a far,
>>>> far larger problem. I am, of course, referring to the idea that
>>>> we are
>>>> entitled to special treatment and superior, not equal access. We
>>>> wouldn't
>>>> phrase it that way...but when we're asking for unnecessary
>>>> extended time for
>>>> assignments (I'm not implying that all extended time is
>>>> unnecessary),
>>>> demanding the right to a dedicated person to take our notes for
>>>> us, begging
>>>> rehab for every piece of the newest and greatest technology and,
>>>> yes,
>>>> cutting in lines at amusement parks...isn't that what we're
>>>> really saying?
>>>> Just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 4/1/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> So they let you cut through the line with a dog, but not with a
>>>> cane?
>>>> Interesting.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>> Public Relations Committee
>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Sarah
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 9:40 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>
>>>> Because with my dog, they let me right on, and they watch the
>>>> dog very
>>>> carefully even when someone else is holding it so nobody pets it
>>>> while
>>>> you're on the ride. With a cane, they will just say "Wait 4
>>>> hours like
>>>> everyone else."
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 21:26:25 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>
>>>> Sarah,
>>>>
>>>> Just curious: how is Six Flags more accommodating to a guide dog
>>>> user than
>>>> to a cane user?
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>> Public Relations Committee
>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Sarah Meeks
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:56 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>
>>>> My best amusement park experience has always been Six Flags.
>>>> They are very
>>>> accommodating. There you are more accommodating now that I have
>>>> a dog.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Yay for Disney! they were by far my best park experience. I
>>>> went twice
>>>> as a little kid. The first time I went I was five or six and my
>>>> parents
>>>> also had a baby in a stroller, so the practice for both me and my
>>>> sister
>>>> was to hold onto our brother's stroller to keep with our parents
>>>> and not
>>>> get lost. My parents just gave me verbal direction and were
>>>> with me the
>>>> entire time, so there really wasn't a major need for a cane.
>>>> When I went
>>>> again as an older kid though, I did have a folding cane and the
>>>> Disney
>>>> staff was very good about either showing me tricks to keep it
>>>> with me or
>>>> holding it and then giving it back to me when I got off, even on
>>>> water
>>>> rides like Splash Mountain and the Pirates of the Caribbean
>>>> rides which
>>>> start in one place and end at another. If you have a folding
>>>> cane you can
>>>> secure it folded with the loop and then put your wrist through
>>>> the cane
>>>> and the strap and just let it hang as you hold onto something.
>>>> It won't
>>>> flop around as much as the telescopic cane. Also, the holster
>>>> idea sounds
>>>> good, although some park personelle at other amusement parks
>>>> get worried
>>>> about it coming lose. Either way, you shouldn't have any
>>>> problems with
>>>> getting the ride people to bring you your cane at the ride exit.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, Universal Studios was excellent about working with
>>>> the cane
>>>> too. I went there in the same vacation that I went to Disney for
>>>> the
>>>> second time and they were very accomodating.
>>>>
>>>> On 4/1/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sophie,
>>>> I'm one of those random oddballs who would probably go alone
>>>> if I was
>>>> traveling, and there was a really cool theme park near by.
>>>> I
>>>> know it's not for everyone, but occasionally doing those kinds
>>>> of "social"
>>>> things by myself is fun for me; both to keep my confidence up
>>>> and to meet
>>>> people that I otherwise wouldn't get to know.
>>>> Anyways, I've taken my straight cane to theme parks no
>>>> problem, but I'll
>>>> confess I haven't tried a water park with it yet. A collapsible
>>>> or folding
>>>> cane seems more reasonable to me there. On rollercoasters or
>>>> big rides
>>>> like that, I've almost always just given my straight cane to the
>>>> ride
>>>> attendant and picked it up when the ride is done, but those
>>>> rides usually
>>>> start and end at the same place.
>>>> Waterslides
>>>> and things are different though, obviously.
>>>> Basically, I've been reading this thread to see what useful
>>>> bits I could
>>>> glean from it, as I'll probably be going to a few water parks
>>>> myself over
>>>> the summer. Maybe this will finally give me the motivation I
>>>> need to buy
>>>> another collapsible or NFB folding cane. (I actually liked mine
>>>> for the
>>>> year or so it lasted, but I used it sparingly and certainly not
>>>> as my
>>>> primary cane.) Thanks, all, for the help and suggewstions.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I would where a belt around my bathing suit, and Use a folding
>>>> cane with
>>>> a holster.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Cindy
>>>> Bennett
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 4:25 PM
>>>> To: National Asociation of Blind Students
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> This summer, I am going to a water park. When I go to theme
>>>> parks, I
>>>> typically store my cane somewhere outside the ride area or on the
>>>> exit
>>>> side of a roller coaster platform. However, many water rides
>>>> are such
>>>> that you get on the ride in a different location, often quite a
>>>> walk away,
>>>> from the place where you get off of the ride.
>>>> My
>>>> cane is too long to fit in many inner tubes, and I doubt that
>>>> it would be
>>>> a safe thing to bring along especially if it came loose.
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering if a telescoping cane would be the best for
>>>> this, because
>>>> I know that many water rides have shoe holders. It would just
>>>> be
>>>> annoying, because I would have to rely on someone to guide me
>>>> back to
>>>> these shoe holders that are often at the entrance of the ride.
>>>>
>>>> So what are your suggestions for storing a cane during water
>>>> rides?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cindy Bennett
>>>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative
>>>> Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>>>>
>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
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