[nabs-l] canes and water park rides

Desiree Oudinot turtlepower17 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 2 18:10:46 UTC 2013


Hi Kurt,
Your experience with guide dog handlers is interesting. Before I go on
to my main point, I just want to say that I, too, am a proud cane
user, and I never intend on getting a dog. I never cared for dogs all
that much, even when I was a kid. Let's just say that I've been around
one too many poorly trained dogs in my lifetime, and some of the
things they do are frankly disgusting. I've also been around several
well-behaved guide dogs, but my childhood experiences do take
precedence. That, and dogs smell, and that's not something I can
really get used to, even though I know they can't help it.
now, to my point. I was always under the impression that in order for
a person to even be accepted into a guide dog school, their cane
skills had to be stellar. I've always heard about how if your existing
cane and route traveling skills are subpar, you won't get a dog,
simple as that. While they would hone a few rusty skills along the
way, if time permits, they can't do everything, nor do they feel they
should.
I guess, like everything else, not all guide dog schools are created
equal. Most people who have said this to me have either gone to the
Seeing Eye in New Jersey or GEB in New York. From what I understand,
those are the top two guide dog schools, anyway, so it wouldn't
surprise me that their standards were way up there, not that they
shouldn't be. Logic dictates that you shouldn't be able to take your
dog everywhere you need to go. Dogs get sick, or maybe you want to go
to a loud concert, or, yes, an amusement park. I agree that dogs don't
really belong there, especially on particularly brutal summer days.

On 4/2/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Justin,
>   Exactly.  For me, and I'm only speaking for myself, but being forced
> to take my dog wherever I went, or not being able to leave him home
> when the situation seemed to warrant it, doesn't appear to work all
> that well.  I'm going to make a generalization, and I realize there
> are plenty of acceptions to what I'm about to say.  Still, I think
> it's worth mentioning, if for no other reason than because it really
> applied to me personally.  Also, I should probably say that I'm not
> lumping Sarah or anybody else specific on this list into what I'm
> about to say because...well, I don't know most of you in real life, so
> who am I to judge?
>   Still, I've seen lots of blind people who get dogs because their
> mobility skills aren't up to par and they want a cure.  I have plenty
> of  friends and acquaintances who use dogs because they don't feel
> confident in their ability to travel without them; sadly, to me, this
> seems the rule more than the exception.  It kind of makes my heart
> hurt a little bit when I see friends shy away from new places and
> experiences just because their dogs prefer to stay in familiar areas.
> Again, from what I've seen, this seems to be what happens more often
> than not.  I'm not saying a dog isn't a legitimate option; I can see
> the advantages of traveling with one and, while they aren't enough to
> convince me to become a dog user, they are certainly real.  I'm just
> saying that, if someone isn't a confident and comfortable traveler
> already, having a dog won't magically make up for it.  Sadly, many (if
> not most) guide dog users I know weren't confident travelers to begin
> with, so they got a dog instead of getting quality training.  Of
> course, I know a whole bunch of cane users with the same problem, so
> it's certainly not the dog's fault if the handler can't get where
> he/she needs to go.  I guess all I'm saying, and I'm sure most
> competent dog users will wholeheartedly agree, is that getting a good
> dog is no substitute for getting good training...but now I'm wondering
> what any of this has to do with riding rollercoasters and water
> slides.  :)
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Cane, dog,  what works.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>> Manwaring
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:44 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>
>> Sarah,
>>   I know I'm going to spark an age-old debate, and possibly get
>> reprimanded for being off-topic, but I don't really care right now.  I
>> don't mean this condescendingly or judgmentally...but, Sarah, the next
>> time someone asks me why I'm not a dog user, I want to have your
>> e-mails on hand because they would make my case far better than I
>> possibly could.  (and, yes, I'm aware how ironic this will sound to
>> anybody who remembers the stir I created a while back because I wanted
>> to get a dog and bring him...or her...or whatever to a training
>> center.)
>>   And, please, before anybody gets their knickers all twisted up over
>> this, I'm definitely not anti-dog.  I know some fantastic travelers
>> who happen to be dog users; I also know some terrible travelers who
>> happen to use canes instead.  My point is simply that, having the
>> personality I do where I want to wait my turn like most everyone else,
>> and hearing the kinds of stories I do from Sarah and from most dog
>> users I'm acquainted with about how ansy/skiddish/uncomfortable/needy
>> their dogs are, I'm pretty darn sure I made the right decision for
>> myself.  This isn't a condemnation, much as some people might construe
>> it as one.  Canes can certainly bring issues of their own...but my
>> straight cane won't have a panic attack if I decide to leave it at
>> home and take my folding cane instead, and vice-versa.
>>   Anyways, sorry for the rambling...I'm trying to find every possible
>> excuse I can to distract me from my political science homework,
>> because Plato's Republic is really hurting my fragile little head
>> right now.  :)  I really didn't mean this as a knock against competent
>> dog-users or, really, against Sarah at all.  I just meant to say how
>> stories like this reinforce my belief that, in choosing not to get a
>> guide dog, I think I made the right decision for me.
>>   Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 4/1/13, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> i can't leave Wizard hoc alone when I go to parks he freaks out
>>> when I leave him for a few hours to go to a friend's house.
>>> Besides his trainers told me to none leave him alone unsupervised
>>> for more than an hour inr 2.
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:08:50 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>> Perhaps you shouldn't bring Wizard under those circumstances?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Sarah
>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:32 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>> I'm not making my guide dog wait 4 hours for one ride in the
>>> uncomfortable
>>> hot weather.  Besides, all the ride operators know me at the park
>>> anyways.
>>> I never waited in line before I did for like 2 hours because X2
>>> broke down
>>> and sy had to replace a wheel.
>>> But I'm not making Wizard wait in line er 4 hours  for each ride.
>>> It's like 2 or 4 hours for each ride and I bought an immediate
>>> boarding
>>> pass.  All I have to do is show the paper I bought to the
>>> operator if they
>>> don't know me already, and they let me on.
>>> People are just jealous because they can't do it!
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:18:14 -0600
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>> Sarah,
>>>   I know you're going to get a lot of flack for what you just
>>> said, so I'll
>>> do my best to be gentle.  I know each person's situation is
>>> different, so
>>> I'm not judging every blind person who chooses to take that extra
>>> perk and
>>> cut through line; for all I know, there really is some other
>>> disability or
>>> legitimate need for that accommodation with some of us, so
>>> farbeit from me
>>> to condemn everyone wholesale for making that choice.  Still, and
>>> I feel
>>> very strongly about this, if you are capable of waiting in line
>>> with
>>> everybody else, you should.
>>> Period.  In the past, there have been a few times where I've
>>> caved in to
>>> family pressure and broken my own rule; I'm not proud of it, I
>>> don't always
>>> measure up to my own standards here, but I nevertheless believe
>>> very
>>> passionately that we should not take "accommodation"
>>> where we do not need it.  If you had no real need to cut in line,
>>> and it
>>> sounds like you didn't if you've been able to wait in long lines
>>> before (if
>>> I'm wrong please forgive me), you shouldn't have.
>>> That's
>>> my opinion, I'm not trying to be harsh because I've certainly
>>> skipped in
>>> line a few times before (and invariably felt ashamed afterwords),
>>> but
>>> accommodation is only real accommodation if it serves a real
>>> need.
>>>  We have enough real needs already to go around taking advantage
>>> of things
>>> that just aren't necessary.  Not only is it a waste but it can,
>>> if we aren't
>>> careful, send totally the wrong message about blindness.
>>> Our reputation as people who take and take, without giving back,
>>> isn't
>>> entirely unjustified.  If we want to be treated equally, we
>>> _have_ to have
>>> it both ways.  If we want equal treatment, we have equal
>>> responsibility.
>>> Much as this might seem menial, or irrelevant to the larger
>>> problems we
>>> face, waiting in lines is a drudgery that we ought to accept
>>> cheerfully (or
>>> at least grudgingly) if we really want equal access to amusement
>>> parks.  I
>>> think, for many blind people, the attitude which says it's okay
>>> to cut in
>>> line even though we could wait like everyone else is indicative
>>> of a far,
>>> far larger problem.  I am, of course, referring to the idea that
>>> we are
>>> entitled to special treatment and superior, not equal access.  We
>>> wouldn't
>>> phrase it that way...but when we're asking for unnecessary
>>> extended time for
>>> assignments (I'm not implying that all extended time is
>>> unnecessary),
>>> demanding the right to a dedicated person to take our notes for
>>> us, begging
>>> rehab for every piece of the newest and greatest technology and,
>>> yes,
>>> cutting in lines at amusement parks...isn't that what we're
>>> really saying?
>>> Just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.
>>>   Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 4/1/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  So they let you cut through the line with a dog, but not with a
>>> cane?
>>>  Interesting.
>>>
>>>  Chris
>>>
>>>  Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>  Public Relations Committee
>>>  Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>  Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Sarah
>>>  Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 9:40 PM
>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>>  Because with my dog, they let me right on, and they watch the
>>> dog very
>>> carefully even when someone else is holding it so nobody pets it
>>> while
>>> you're on the ride.  With a cane, they will just say "Wait 4
>>> hours like
>>> everyone else."
>>>
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>  To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 21:26:25 -0400
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>>  Sarah,
>>>
>>>  Just curious: how is Six Flags more accommodating to a guide dog
>>> user than
>>> to a cane user?
>>>
>>>  Chris
>>>
>>>  Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>  Public Relations Committee
>>>  Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>  Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Sarah Meeks
>>>  Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:56 PM
>>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>  Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>>  My best amusement park experience has always been Six Flags.
>>>  They are very
>>>  accommodating.  There you are more accommodating now that I have
>>> a dog.
>>>
>>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>  On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>   Hi,
>>>
>>>   Yay for Disney!  they were by far my best park experience.  I
>>> went  twice
>>> as a little kid.  The first time I went I was five or six and my
>>> parents
>>> also had a baby in a stroller, so the practice for both me and my
>>> sister
>>> was to hold onto our brother's stroller to keep with our parents
>>> and not
>>> get lost.  My parents just gave me verbal direction  and were
>>> with me the
>>> entire time, so there really wasn't a major need  for a cane.
>>> When I went
>>>  again as an older kid though, I did have a  folding cane and the
>>> Disney
>>> staff was very good about either showing  me tricks to keep it
>>> with me or
>>> holding it and then giving it back to  me when I got off, even on
>>> water
>>> rides like Splash Mountain and the  Pirates of the Caribbean
>>> rides which
>>> start in one place and end at  another.  If you have a folding
>>> cane you can
>>> secure it folded with the  loop and then put your wrist through
>>> the cane
>>> and  the strap and just  let it hang as you hold onto something.
>>> It won't
>>> flop  around as much  as the telescopic cane.  Also, the holster
>>> idea sounds
>>> good,  although  some park personelle at other amusement parks
>>> get worried
>>> about  it  coming lose.  Either way, you shouldn't have any
>>> problems with
>>> getting  the ride people to bring you your cane at the ride exit.
>>>
>>>   By the way, Universal Studios was excellent about working with
>>> the  cane
>>> too.  I went there in the same vacation that I went to Disney for
>>> the
>>> second time and they were very accomodating.
>>>
>>>   On 4/1/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>   Sophie,
>>>    I'm one of those random oddballs who would probably go alone
>>> if I  was
>>> traveling, and there was a really cool theme park near by.
>>>  I
>>>   know it's not for everyone, but occasionally doing those kinds
>>> of "social"
>>>   things by myself is fun for me; both to keep my confidence up
>>> and to  meet
>>> people that I otherwise wouldn't get to know.
>>>    Anyways, I've taken my straight cane to theme parks no
>>> problem, but  I'll
>>> confess I haven't tried a water park with it yet.  A collapsible
>>> or  folding
>>> cane seems more reasonable to me there.  On rollercoasters  or
>>> big rides
>>> like that, I've almost always just given my straight  cane to the
>>> ride
>>> attendant and picked it up when the ride is done,  but those
>>> rides usually
>>> start and end at the same place.
>>>  Waterslides
>>>   and things are different though, obviously.
>>>    Basically, I've been reading this thread to see what useful
>>> bits I  could
>>> glean from it, as I'll probably be going to a few water parks
>>> myself over
>>> the summer.  Maybe this will finally give me the  motivation I
>>> need to buy
>>> another collapsible or NFB folding cane.  (I  actually liked mine
>>> for the
>>> year or so it lasted, but I used it  sparingly and certainly not
>>> as my
>>> primary cane.)  Thanks, all, for  the help and suggewstions.
>>>    Best,
>>>   Kirt
>>>
>>>   On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>   I would where a belt around my bathing suit, and Use a folding
>>> cane  with
>>> a  holster.
>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>>   From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Cindy
>>> Bennett
>>>   Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 4:25 PM
>>>   To: National Asociation of Blind Students
>>>   Subject: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>
>>>   Hi everyone,
>>>
>>>   This summer, I am going to a water park.  When I go to theme
>>> parks, I
>>> typically store my cane somewhere outside the ride area or on the
>>> exit
>>> side  of a roller coaster platform.  However, many water rides
>>> are such
>>> that you  get on the ride in a different location, often  quite a
>>> walk away,
>>> from the  place where you get off of the ride.
>>>  My
>>>   cane is too long to fit in many inner tubes, and I doubt that
>>> it  would be
>>> a safe thing to bring along especially if it came loose.
>>>
>>>   I am wondering if a telescoping cane would be the best for
>>> this,  because
>>> I  know that many water rides have shoe holders.  It would  just
>>> be
>>> annoying,  because I would have to rely on someone to guide  me
>>> back to
>>> these shoe  holders that are often at the entrance of the ride.
>>>
>>>   So what are your suggestions for storing a cane during water
>>> rides?
>>>
>>>   Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>>   Cindy Bennett
>>>   Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative
>>>   Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>>>
>>>   B.A.  Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>   clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>
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>>>
>>>   --
>>>   Kaiti
>>>
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