[nabs-l] Lines
Carly Mihalakis
carlymih at comcast.net
Fri Apr 5 18:45:49 UTC 2013
Hi, Kirt,
A suggestion for those who, mercifully, don't hall their guide slaves
to an inappropriate setting would be, for them to carry in their
loaded blind person's backpack, a telescoping stick, they can whip
out should they need the bathroom, after indulgence in some slightly
less than stick to your ribs stadium food, which, since I know
you're wondering, was acquired by means of the same stashed stick,
so they're need not be unnecessary reliance on one of those sighted
arms., At 10:50 AM 4/5/2013, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>Car,
> I rarely get to correct people; usually, I'm the one being corrected
>in one way or another. So please don't blame me for relishing this
>rare opportunity...Carly, you stand corrected! ;)
> I think, if you aren't able to use a cane and travel independently
>without a dog, you probably have no business getting one. I say that
>as a proud and comfortable cane user; still, most of my dog using
>friends (especially the ones with solid mobility skills), have told me
>that there are situations where they would never bring their dog, but
>where they still want to travel independently. I think most people
>who have said anything about this, with the exception of Peter and
>Sarah have agreed that they would probably not take a dog to an
>amusement park. The reasons they gave were similar to your own; from
>my obviously limited experience, I agree. All I'm saying is that if
>you go to an amusement park you shouldn't have to rely on your friend
>to get you wherever you want to go and, if you get separated or decide
>to go to the bathroom or something, you shouldn't expect your friend
>to always be attached to you at the hip. Even teenage couples who
>can't get their hands off of each other won't always go on every ride
>together, one person might want to get food from the pizza place while
>the other person gets food at the bbq joint just around the corner, or
>on the other side of the food court, or whatever. All I'm saying is,
>whether you're a cane user or a dog user or prefer sighted guide, I
>would hope you know how to handle yourself when you need or want to do
>something that most people do on their own. I'll give a couple more
>examples cause I'm bored and I have some time to kill.
> I was at a college basketball game with my family a couple weeks
>back. I had no qualms whatsoever about using sighted guide once we
>got in the arena and started walking to our seats; I could've had them
>constantly yell to tell me where they were, I've done it that way
>before in training...but, in that situation, I decided sighted guide
>was more convenient so I did it. However, when I had to go use the
>restroom I was totally fine getting out of my seat, going to take care
>of my business, finding the concession stand and buying more unhealthy
>crap which made me really need the restroom later and walking back to
>my seat without any problem. I prefer doing that instead of asking
>other people to interrupt the activity they payed for to help me do
>something I'm more than capable of doing on my own. Am I making any
>sense?
> Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 4/5/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Good morning, Kirt,
> >
> > Perhaps, our views of guide dog's placement within the blind human
> > animal experiment differ. You seem to believe, and do correct me if I
> > am seeing things, are that, since these guide dogs have been trained
> > to serve humans, it should, in all cased trump nature. I am in
> > fundamental disagreement with such a premise. If you think of it,
> > these poor animal's innate quality of servitude of humans is being
> > exploited, to magnificent proportions, and I don't want party to
> > that. This is why I can't ever see myself working with a dog.
> > Happy Frieday! Car, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >>Kar,
> >> First, while I think there is absolutely a time and place for
> >>profanity (you should have heard me when I accidentally spilled a cup
> >>of hot tea at a coffee shop just a few days ago), I don't think it
> >>suits a publicly archived mailing list. This is coming from someone
> >>who can curse like a completely drunk sailor, believe me, I just don't
> >>think this is the right venue for language like that.
> >> Now on to the substance of my email. As should be completely
> >>obvious by now, I'm not a dog user and (probably) will never be one.
> >>Still I think leaving Fido home (as most guide dogs are trained to
> >>deal with), would be a better option than bringing the pooch to the
> >>amusement park. If you want to go with a friend (as most people
> >>probably will), more power to you. Still, if you have to rely on that
> >>friend to get you wherever you need to go, and you aren't capable of
> >>handling yourself should you get separated, either by accident or by
> >>choice, then I think you probably need some mobility training. I hate
> >>making generalizations but, I think, that's a safe one to make.
> >> Best,
> >>Kirt
> >>
> >>On 4/4/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> > Good morning, Jess,,
> >> >
> >> > If you considder the plight of a guide dog, it is most often that
> >> > they are trained to deny their dog-ness, what MaMa nature inscribed
> >> > in its DNA I.E not barking or humping a leg, at times of being moved
> >> > to do so, not begging, being drug places unsuited for pooches. My
> >> > suggestion would be, for the poor dog's sake, to buddy up with a
> >> > friend, and let notions of independence go, at least for Fido's sake?
> >> > I know this will probably cause a shit storm, but there it is.
> >> > Have a great day, and, keep on smilin'! Car
> >> > ,
> >> >
> >> > Seeems toAt 04:54 AM 4/2/2013, you wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Hello:
> >> >>Personally, and I know I'll probably get a lot of flack for this but
> >> >>I honestly feel this way. I strongly feel that people with guide
> >> >>dogs shouldn't be taking them to water parks anyway. I don't think
> >> >>it's right that the dog has to go through so much especially at a
> >> >>waterpark. I understand we want to look more independent and what
> >> >>not, but putting a dog through torture like that, at a crowded
> >> >>waterpark, waiting for hours and hours possibly in lines if you
> >> >>choose to stand in a line just seems inhumane to me.
> >> >>Jess
> >> >>
> >> >>Check out my blog:
> >> >>http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva
> >> >>http://www.makemoneywithjessica.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>------------------------------
> >> >>On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 4:55 AM MDT Carly Mihalakis wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Good morning,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It seems to me, in the end your scores speak louder, and
> >> >> >with my clarity than if you happen to have taken extra time. I mean,
> >> >> >who cares?
> >> >> >Car09:35 PM 3/31/2013, justin williams wrote:
> >> >> >>I take the time and a half. Think what you want. I can learn to
> >> >> be fast on
> >> >> >>a job. I was one of the top agents at Teleperformance; still got
> >> >> cheated in
> >> >> >>the end. I was one of the best agents in the call center. (Grin.)
> >> >> >> No
> >> >> >> but
> >> >> >>seriously, I use any tool available to me.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
> >> >> >> Manwaring
> >> >> >>Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:26 AM
> >> >> >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Justin,
> >> >> >> In high school I took the extra time way more than I should have;
> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >>hindsight, I was using it to hide the fact that I wasn't as
> >> >> >> efficient
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >>braille as my peers were with print. I know this is an entirely
> >> >> >> different
> >> >> >>subject, but I think extra time is legitimate only when inherently
> >> >> >> visual
> >> >> >>information like pictures and complex graphs need to be presented
> >> >> >> tactally
> >> >> >>or verbally. Even then, it ought to be used with care because, as
> >> >> >> has
> >> >> >> been
> >> >> >>said ad noseum, you can't get the "time and a half" on the job.
> >> >> >> Best,
> >> >> >>Kirt
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> > Do you take the time and a half on tests?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> >> >> > Arielle
> >> >> >> > Silverman
> >> >> >> > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 11:04 PM
> >> >> >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Lines
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Hi all,
> >> >> >> > Thank you Kirt for making such a great point. When I was growing
> >> >> >> > up
> >> >> >> > my
> >> >> >> > parents and friends often pressured me to use my blindness so
> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> > we
> >> >> >> > could cut lines and sometimes my parents even required it without
> >> >> >> > giving me a choice about it. I used to try and justify our
> >> >> >> > behavior
> >> >> >> > but in the end when I did this I always felt a deep sense of
> >> >> >> > shame
> >> >> >> > and anger, but I could never figure out why. Since then I have
> >> >> >> > learned
> >> >> >> > about self-perception theory in psychology classes and I think I
> >> >> >> > understand why it bothers me (and many of
> >> >> >> > us) so much. Basically, self-perception theory posits that we
> >> >> >> > draw
> >> >> >> > conclusions about ourselves by observing our own behavior. I
> >> >> >> > think
> >> >> >> > whenever I used my blindness as a reason to get a guest pass and
> >> >> >> > skip
> >> >> >> > the line, it made me start to see myself as a handicapped or
> >> >> >> > crippled
> >> >> >> > person, which was very upsetting. For some people who have
> >> >> >> > trouble
> >> >> >> > standing for long periods of time, or who have guide dogs who get
> >> >> >> > uncomfortable standing out in the sun, cutting in line seems
> >> >> >> > legitimate. But if we can physically handle the lines, accepting
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > special passes doesn't do us any real favors. I insist on
> >> >> >> > standing
> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> > line with everyone else because I want to see myself (and my
> >> >> >> > fellow
> >> >> >> > blind friends) as strong, healthy, normal people. I feel I have
> >> >> >> > little
> >> >> >> > to gain by skipping the lines, and much to lose in terms of
> >> >> >> > self-esteem and self-respect. I think every time we take an
> >> >> >> > accommodation, we need to think about what we are gaining from
> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> > accommodation vs. what we are potentially losing in terms of
> >> >> >> > normalcy.
> >> >> >> > If an accommodation like a piece of technology is truly
> >> >> >> > necessary,
> >> >> >> > it
> >> >> >> > will give enough benefit that it's worth the self-esteem hit. But
> >> >> >> > if
> >> >> >> > an accommodation isn't really needed, I think we have more to
> >> >> >> > lose
> >> >> >> > than we have to gain by accepting it. For this same reason I also
> >> >> >> > do
> >> >> >> > not write off blindness as a reason to claim a tax deduction.
> >> >> >> > I am proud to be (barely) earning enough income to be required to
> >> >> >> > pay
> >> >> >> > taxes and paying taxes just like anyone else in my income bracket
> >> >> >> > makes me feel good about myself and where I belong in the world.
> >> >> >> > There's also the argument that if we want to be allowed the same
> >> >> >> > rights sighted people get, we need to be willing to saddle the
> >> >> >> > extra
> >> >> >> > responsibilities. If we want to be allowed to ride amusement park
> >> >> >> > rides without discrimination, we need to be willing to wait in
> >> >> >> > line.
> >> >> >> > It sends a mixed message to skip the line and then insist on
> >> >> >> > equal
> >> >> >> > treatment by the ride operators, just like it sends a mixed
> >> >> >> > message
> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> > request unnecessary extra time on tests and then ask for a
> >> >> >> > professor's
> >> >> >> > letter of recommendation.
> >> >> >> > Again, though I'm not a dog user, I think having a guide dog is a
> >> >> >> > legitimate reason to not wait in lines.
> >> >> >> > Arielle
> >> >> >> >
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> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
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> >> >> >>
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