[nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
Isaac Hebert
isaac.hebert at gmail.com
Thu Apr 11 13:53:41 UTC 2013
On 4/11/13, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman Place, a
> supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago (Hope
> Paulos)
> 2. Re: a wuestion about Ipad or Imac (Cindy Bennett)
> 3. iPad question about autocorrect (Cindy Bennett)
> 4. Re: a wuestion about Ipad or Imac (ryan Bishop)
> 5. Re: Voc Rehab request denied (Sam Nelson)
> 6. audio description review: She Kills Monsters
> (Robert William Kingett)
> 7. Re: Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman Place, a
> supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago (Sam Nelson)
> 8. Re: Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman Place, a
> supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago (Sam Nelson)
> 9. Re: Voc Rehab request denied (Sophie Trist)
> 10. Re: Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman Place, a
> supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
> (melissa Green)
> 11. Re: Voc Rehab request denied (Robert William Kingett)
> 12. Re: Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman Place, a
> supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago (Sam Nelson)
> 13. Re: Voc Rehab request denied (Robert William Kingett)
> 14. Re: Voc Rehab request denied (Arielle Silverman)
> 15. Re: Voc Rehab request denied (Suzanne Germano)
> 16. Re: Voc Rehab request denied (Suzanne Germano)
> 17. Re: Voc Rehab request denied (Kaiti Shelton)
> 18. Looking for Blind VoiceOver Users To Test SideCar Ride
> Sharing App & Report Accessibility Experiences (Mika Pyyhkala)
> 19. NFB and Independence (Arielle Silverman)
> 20. Re: Voc Rehab request denied (Suzanne Germano)
> 21. Re: NFB and Independence (justin williams)
> 22. Re: NFB and Independence (Robert William Kingett)
> 23. Re: NFB and Independence (justin williams)
> 24. Re: NFB and Independence (Robert William Kingett)
> 25. Re: NFB and Independence (Desiree Oudinot)
> 26. Re: NFB and Independence (Desiree Oudinot)
> 27. Re: NFB and Independence (justin williams)
> 28. Re: NFB and Independence (Kaiti Shelton)
> 29. Re: NFB and Independence (Sam Nelson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:26:48 -0400
> From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
> Message-ID: <D67805C5-25E0-46EB-AF7E-FB9E6A4CB57A at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi there! I believe the iPad has the AutoCorrect feature. I know the iPhone
> and the iPods have them! They also have a dictation feature. This might be
> helpful as well!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:12 PM, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> thank you.I just have a question since there's a lot of blind people who
>> use an I pad. I'm looking at getting an I pad. I've devised my own
>> accessibility solution in Microsoft Word for typing called auto correct. I
>> use it to write the articles that I write and edit for magazines and
>> newspapers, even in the Braille monitor. I have an article coming up in
>> the May issue of the Braille monitor by the way. I'm happy that I'm
>> looking into blindness publications, as, up until now, I've always
>> published various blindness related reviews, and articles, editorials,
>> essays, and poetry in mainstream publications. It's fun exploitation!
>> Anyway, I have a question about the ipad. I'm looking at getting an ipad
>> and I want to know of the I pad has the autocorrect feature on t. I want
>> to get a dock so that way I will have a full keyboard to type with. I've
>> also been thinking about an IMac but that's just not in the price range
>> right now. Does apple have something like autocorrect in Microsoft Word
>> like when I type C M, D, and hit the space bar to changes it to command? I
>> will be writing for more venues and my laptop is just fine, because I've
>> been working with it professionally for 4 years and I'm worried that the
>> fan in it stops working and then I weep in utter sadness because I won?t
>> be able to write at all. It?s what I do, after all. So if anyone can
>> answer this question I?d really appreciate it. I have auto correct set to
>> where, if I type something short like I T f f, it translates into if the
>> founding fathers? etc. I change them often depending on the article that
>> I'm writing, or email. Thank you very much for any answers you may have.
>> You guys are the best!
>>
>> /*See below for writing links, social media links, and other writing
>> archives
>> */
>>
>> *Click here to see my writing archive
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>*
>>
>>
>> *Click here to view my website/
>> / <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Frobertkingett.com%2F>*
>>
>> */
>> /*
>>
>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ *
>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 *
>>
>> Facebook
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Frobertkingett>
>> Twitter
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>> YouTube
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>> WordPress
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdescribedreviews.wordpress.com%2F>
>> Blog RSS
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdescribereview.wordpress.com%2Ffeed%2F>
>>
>> My latest comedy review: ?Words With Girls?: Gay, Ironic and Masterful
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Famericascomedy.com%2Fwords-with-girls-gay-ironic-and-masterful-review-web-series-youtube%2F>
>>
>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long
>> Will I Cry? (play)
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdescribereview.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play%2F>
>>
>> WordPress
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F>
>> My latest post in my blog:Guest Blogging and RSS merging: What a day and
>> it?s only Monday!
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F04%2F09%2Fguest-blogging-and-rss-merging-what-a-day-and-its-only-monday%2F>
>>
>> Read more
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F04%2F09%2Fguest-blogging-and-rss-merging-what-a-day-and-its-only-monday%2F>|
>> My blog
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F>
>>
>> Share on Facebook
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fsharer.php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252F04%252F09%252Fguest-blogging-and-rss-merging-what-a-day-and-its-only-monday%252F>
>> ?Share on Twitter
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fintent%2Ftweet%3Ftext%3DGuest%2520Blogging%2520and%2520RSS%2520merging%253A%2520What%2520a%2520day%2520and%2520it%25E2%2580%2599s%2520only%2520Monday%21%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29>
>>
>>
>> Get this email app!
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Fapps%2Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwordpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps>
>>
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fkingettr>
>>
>>
>> Latest post: Google's Internet and TV service, Google Fiber, will launch
>> in Austin next year. ... Google Fiber Blog
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2F0glZtEnEtz>
>>
>> Like
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpermalink.php%3Fid%3D458669250871641%26story_fbid%3D472488592823040>
>> ? Comment
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpermalink.php%3Fid%3D458669250871641%26story_fbid%3D472488592823040>
>> ? Share
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fsharer.php%3Fu%3Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.facebook.com%25252Fpermalink.php%25253Fid%25253D458669250871641%252526story_fbid%25253D472488592823040>
>>
>>
>> Get this email app!
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Fapps%2Ffacebookpage%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dfacebookpage%26utm_campaign%3Dapps>
>>
>> Designed with WiseStamp -
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr1.wisestamp.com%2Fr%2Flanding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed10dd0884%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1365621740252%26promo%3D10%26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_10>Get
>> yours
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr1.wisestamp.com%2Fr%2Flanding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed10dd0884%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1365621740252%26promo%3D10%26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_10>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:23:31 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a wuestion about Ipad or Imac
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdx2dpU4VM7rL3NaBh77imbo204ZnpTjsGxAsYkA1ptZ4g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Sorry Robert, I didn't see this separate message. I just saw the one
> at the end of the other thread.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 4/10/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I just have a question since there's a lot of blind people who use an I
>> pad. I'm looking at getting an I pad. I've devised my own accessibility
>> solution in Microsoft Word for typing called auto correct. I use it to
>> write the articles that I write and edit for magazines and newspapers,
>> even in the Braille monitor. I have an article coming up in the May
>> issue of the Braille monitor by the way. I'm happy that I'm looking into
>> blindness publications, as, up until now, I've always published various
>> blindness related reviews, and articles, editorials, essays, and poetry
>> in mainstream publications. It's fun exploitation! Anyway, I have a
>> question about the ipad. I'm looking at getting an ipad and I want to
>> know of the I pad has the autocorrect feature on t. I want to get a dock
>> so that way I will have a full keyboard to type with. I've also been
>> thinking about an IMac but that's just not in the price range right now.
>> Does apple have something like autocorrect in Microsoft Word like when I
>> type C M, D, and hit the space bar to changes it to command? I will be
>> writing for more venues and my laptop is just fine, because I've been
>> working with it professionally for 4 years and I'm worried that the fan
>> in it stops working and then I weep in utter sadness because I won?t be
>> able to write at all. It?s what I do, after all. So if anyone can answer
>> this question I?d really appreciate it. I have auto correct set to
>> where, if I type something short like I T f f, it translates into if the
>> founding fathers? etc. I change them often depending on the article that
>> I'm writing, or email. Thank you very much for any answers you may have.
>> You guys are the best!
>>
>> /*See below for writing links, social media links, and other writing
>> archives
>> */
>>
>> *Click here to see my writing archive
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>*
>>
>> *Click here to view my website/
>> / <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Frobertkingett.com%2F>*
>>
>> */
>> /*
>>
>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ *
>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 *
>>
>> Facebook
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Frobertkingett>
>> Twitter
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Frkingett>
>> LinkedIn
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fkingettr>
>> YouTube
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2Fkingettspeaks>
>> WordPress
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdescribedreviews.wordpress.com%2F>
>> Blog RSS
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdescribereview.wordpress.com%2Ffeed%2F>
>> My latest comedy review: ?Words With Girls?: Gay, Ironic and Masterful
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Famericascomedy.com%2Fwords-with-girls-gay-ironic-and-masterful-review-web-series-youtube%2F>
>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long
>> Will I Cry? (play)
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdescribereview.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play%2F>
>> WordPress
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F>
>> My latest post in my blog:Guest Blogging and RSS merging: What a day
>> and it?s only Monday!
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F04%2F09%2Fguest-blogging-and-rss-merging-what-a-day-and-its-only-monday%2F>
>>
>> Read more
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F04%2F09%2Fguest-blogging-and-rss-merging-what-a-day-and-its-only-monday%2F>|
>> My blog
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F>
>> Share on Facebook
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fsharer.php%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%252F2013%252F04%252F09%252Fguest-blogging-and-rss-merging-what-a-day-and-its-only-monday%252F>
>> ?Share on Twitter
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fintent%2Ftweet%3Ftext%3DGuest%2520Blogging%2520and%2520RSS%2520merging%253A%2520What%2520a%2520day%2520and%2520it%25E2%2580%2599s%2520only%2520Monday%21%2520%2520%28via%2520%2540wisestamp%29>
>>
>>
>> Get this email app!
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Fapps%2Fwordpress%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dwordpress%26utm_campaign%3Dapps>
>>
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fkingettr>
>>
>> Latest post: Google's Internet and TV service, Google Fiber, will launch
>> in Austin next year. ... Google Fiber Blog
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2F0glZtEnEtz>
>>
>> Like
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpermalink.php%3Fid%3D458669250871641%26story_fbid%3D472488592823040>
>> ? Comment
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpermalink.php%3Fid%3D458669250871641%26story_fbid%3D472488592823040>
>> ? Share
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fsharer.php%3Fu%3Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.facebook.com%25252Fpermalink.php%25253Fid%25253D458669250871641%252526story_fbid%25253D472488592823040>
>>
>>
>> Get this email app!
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Fapps%2Ffacebookpage%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dfacebookpage%26utm_campaign%3Dapps>
>>
>> Designed with WiseStamp -
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr1.wisestamp.com%2Fr%2Flanding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed10dd0884%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1365621740252%26promo%3D10%26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_10>Get
>> yours
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr1.wisestamp.com%2Fr%2Flanding%3Fu%3D5ddbf9ed10dd0884%26v%3D3.13.2%26t%3D1365621740252%26promo%3D10%26dest%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.wisestamp.com%252Femail-install%253Futm_source%253Dextension%2526utm_medium%253Demail%2526utm_campaign%253Dpromo_10>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:21:44 -0700
> From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] iPad question about autocorrect
> Message-ID:
> <CACUFQdyuu7q3u9RwB9RsdiWtm3wL3Q4wm63u=Zb_cA_bmSRRAA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> I do not have all of the answers to your question, but I did change
> the subject line, so others will probably respond.
>
> In my experience with using an iPhone, the autocorrect works if I am
> touch typing but not if I am using my blue tooth keyboard. I know that
> you can create shortcuts on the iPhone such as eml for email, etc. I
> do think that these shortcuts autocorrect when using a keyboard. I
> just tried omw on my keyboard, and it corrected to on my way. But I do
> not believe that using a blue tooth keyboard will cause the spell
> check autocorrect function to work. Make sense? I could be wrong, and
> the iPad may have a more sophistocated autocorrect function. Also, I
> am not using the Apple blue tooth keyboard, and that may make a
> difference as well, but hoepfully someone else will be able to
> respond.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 4/10/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> thank you.I just have a question since there's a lot of blind people who
>> use an I pad. I'm looking at getting an I pad. I've devised my own
>> accessibility solution in Microsoft Word for typing called auto correct.
>> I use it to write the articles that I write and edit for magazines and
>> newspapers, even in the Braille monitor. I have an article coming up in
>> the May issue of the Braille monitor by the way. I'm happy that I'm
>> looking into blindness publications, as, up until now, I've always
>> published various blindness related reviews, and articles, editorials,
>> essays, and poetry in mainstream publications. It's fun exploitation!
>> Anyway, I have a question about the ipad. I'm looking at getting an ipad
>> and I want to know of the I pad has the autocorrect feature on t. I want
>> to get a dock so that way I will have a full keyboard to type with. I've
>> also been thinking about an IMac but that's just not in the price range
>> right now. Does apple have something like autocorrect in Microsoft Word
>> like when I type C M, D, and hit the space bar to changes it to command?
>> I will be writing for more venues and my laptop is just fine, because
>> I've been working with it professionally for 4 years and I'm worried
>> that the fan in it stops working and then I weep in utter sadness
>> because I won?t be able to write at all. It?s what I do, after all. So
>> if anyone can answer this question I?d really appreciate it. I have auto
>> correct set to where, if I type something short like I T f f, it
>> translates into if the founding fathers? etc. I change them often
>> depending on the article that I'm writing, or email. Thank you very much
>> for any answers you may have. You guys are the best!
>>
>> /*See below for writing links, social media links, and other writing
>> archives
>> */
>>
>> *Click here to see my writing archive
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>*
>>
>>
>> *Click here to view my website/
>> / <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Frobertkingett.com%2F>*
>>
>> */
>> /*
>>
>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ *
>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 *
>>
>> Facebook
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Frobertkingett>
>> Twitter
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>>
>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long
>> Will I Cry? (play)
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdescribereview.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play%2F>
>>
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>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F>
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>> it?s only Monday!
>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F04%2F09%2Fguest-blogging-and-rss-merging-what-a-day-and-its-only-monday%2F>
>>
>> Read more
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 14:21:46 -0700
> From: ryan Bishop <ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a wuestion about Ipad or Imac
> Message-ID:
> <CAPAH3eH5WiGgHAi-yCJ+ziGmSqQjdhacG69NO_+knvbPw0tcvA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> hello. i'm going to be honest,
> IPads do have auto correct on, but there mostly for spelling mistakes.
> They do understand some short term words, it just depends, I believe
> you can also add your own short terms in the dictionary. I will look
> more in to this, because I have IPads around at school, and I have an
> IPhone.
>
> On 4/10/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sorry Robert, I didn't see this separate message. I just saw the one
>> at the end of the other thread.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 4/10/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I just have a question since there's a lot of blind people who use an I
>>> pad. I'm looking at getting an I pad. I've devised my own accessibility
>>> solution in Microsoft Word for typing called auto correct. I use it to
>>> write the articles that I write and edit for magazines and newspapers,
>>> even in the Braille monitor. I have an article coming up in the May
>>> issue of the Braille monitor by the way. I'm happy that I'm looking into
>>> blindness publications, as, up until now, I've always published various
>>> blindness related reviews, and articles, editorials, essays, and poetry
>>> in mainstream publications. It's fun exploitation! Anyway, I have a
>>> question about the ipad. I'm looking at getting an ipad and I want to
>>> know of the I pad has the autocorrect feature on t. I want to get a dock
>>> so that way I will have a full keyboard to type with. I've also been
>>> thinking about an IMac but that's just not in the price range right now.
>>> Does apple have something like autocorrect in Microsoft Word like when I
>>> type C M, D, and hit the space bar to changes it to command? I will be
>>> writing for more venues and my laptop is just fine, because I've been
>>> working with it professionally for 4 years and I'm worried that the fan
>>> in it stops working and then I weep in utter sadness because I won?t be
>>> able to write at all. It?s what I do, after all. So if anyone can answer
>>> this question I?d really appreciate it. I have auto correct set to
>>> where, if I type something short like I T f f, it translates into if the
>>> founding fathers? etc. I change them often depending on the article that
>>> I'm writing, or email. Thank you very much for any answers you may have.
>>> You guys are the best!
>>>
>>> /*See below for writing links, social media links, and other writing
>>> archives
>>> */
>>>
>>> *Click here to see my writing archive
>>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fpub%3Fid%3D1rASWYM_d-JajxmIKycBzVNgdwhJgUePAw1_IBFchglY>*
>>>
>>> *Click here to view my website/
>>> / <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Frobertkingett.com%2F>*
>>>
>>> */
>>> /*
>>>
>>> */writer for Chicago Theater Beat/ *
>>> *Tel: 850 764 2161 *
>>>
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>>> WordPress
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>>> Blog RSS
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>>> My latest comedy review: ?Words With Girls?: Gay, Ironic and Masterful
>>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Famericascomedy.com%2Fwords-with-girls-gay-ironic-and-masterful-review-web-series-youtube%2F>
>>> My latest Audio Description review: Audio Description review: How Long
>>> Will I Cry? (play)
>>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdescribereview.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2F13%2Faudio-description-review-how-long-will-i-cry-play%2F>
>>> WordPress
>>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F>
>>> My latest post in my blog:Guest Blogging and RSS merging: What a day
>>> and it?s only Monday!
>>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F04%2F09%2Fguest-blogging-and-rss-merging-what-a-day-and-its-only-monday%2F>
>>>
>>> Read more
>>> <http://s.wisestamp.com/links?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblindchicagodream.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F04%2F09%2Fguest-blogging-and-rss-merging-what-a-day-and-its-only-monday%2F>|
>>> My blog
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>>> Share on Facebook
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>>> in Austin next year. ... Google Fiber Blog
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>>>
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>>> ? Share
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>> Legislative Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>>
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> ----------------
> Ryan Bishop
> E-Mail Address: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
> Mobile Number: ---
> "A Loss of site, Never a loss of vission"
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:44:39 -0500
> From: "Sam Nelson" <samnelson1 at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
> Message-ID: <002201ce3634$9b2e1190$d18a34b0$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi Suzanne,
> I don't have any answers for you on this, other than to pursue the appeal,
> but I wanted to write and say I'm sorry this happened.
> To me, your request makes perfect sense. But sometimes voc rehab can be so
> frustrating, it just doesn't make sense! I just wanted to say I know where
> you're coming from in requesting something and having it denied. I'd like a
> braille lite, for example, because I had one before and then my mom fried
> it. I like them better than the braillenote because you don't need to send
> out every two years to get the battery replaced. I don't need the fancy
> stuff on the braillenote with e-mail and everything. I just need the
> wordprocessing part, and to make sure it has a compact flash slot so I
> can download books on it.
> Anyway, my caseworker in IL said that there was no way I could get any
> kind of technology like that unless I was going to work or school. And it
> sounded like I would to have been going to work or school for awhile before
> they'd get it. But the crazier thing she said that was in order to get a
> braillenote or anything similar I'd have to take a test in reading and
> writing braille! I mean talk about a waste of time!
> I found someone who was selling their braille lite for a price I or my
> family could save up for, so I'll probably end up doing that. Sometimes
> honestly they're more trouble than they're worth. But I know how hard it
> can be when you really do need their help and they're just making things a
> million times worse.
> I really hope you get the Indiana appointment soon! Maybe go to your
> caseworker's supervisor and make your case to them? That sometimes works.
> I've found sometimes the supervisors are more understanding than the people
> we actually work with. ,
> I hope this helps.
> Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne
> Germano
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
>
> I requested that voc rehab pay for me to have and comprehensive examination
> and contacts lenses from Eye Associates in Indiana. The specialize in
> Achromatopsia and spend 4 hours working to find the right color contacts to
> match each person's needs.
>
> I have used red lenses for years but now that I am back in school and
> reading a lot and the classrooms are extremely bright. I have found the
> need
> to find a better color.
>
> They denied it because they use 3 vendors in Arizona (where I live) for low
> vision services. None of these 3 do the extensive exam. In Indiana I try on
> several color actual contacts then see how they work for reading how they
> work with my sunglasses for out side. My prescription is in glasses because
> it makes my near vision (which I use mostly at school) very blurry) But I
> need the color filter due to extreme photophobia.
>
> I only asked for the cost of the exam (above medicare) and the actual
> contacts. I did nto ask them to cover any transportation costs.
>
> They claim they cannot use out of state services if it is available in
> Arizona. I explained that yes they have low vision exams but none can do
> what the one in Indiana can do. One even tried to tell me to have my
> prescription in my clear contacts then have multiple colored glasses even
> after I explained I cannot do the script in the contacts or I cannot read,
> use my computer, write without a headache from it being blurry.
>
> I filed an appeal but my appointment is May 14th. I am going when I will
> already be in the midwest for my daughter's college graduation.
>
> Any pointers?
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:52:07 -0500
> From: Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com>
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] audio description review: She Kills Monsters
> Message-ID: <5165DF07.9050208 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> CRITICULOUS quest log.
>
> HP: *27*
>
> Ability scores, *infinite*
>
> Psionic ability: *word choice, diction, cute simile. Magical pronouns*
>
> Extraordinary senses: *audio description*.
>
> Skills: *critical perception, types with three fingers, types 40 words
> per minute*
>
> Feats: *tenure, cute adjectives, plush sentences, and knowledge of comma
> placement.*
>
> *FINAL ENTRY.*
>
> Greetings traveler, it is I, Criticuous. I feel that I should explain my
> immediate action of perusing the lost scrolls of Qui Nguyen, a legend
> here in this stadium. I feel as though I should dictate my exact
> happenings so this way it will be clear to my fellow party, and others,
> where I disappeared to for an hour an 45 minutes.
>
> I was at the pub down at Halsted Street acquiring training for my spells
> and abilities. Recognizing me from mystic lands such as America?s
> comedy, com, and various other online communities, a Mage named Evanore
> invited me to a judging. I was honored that he had picked me to attend
> the epic presentation of she Kills Monsters, which takes place in a
> distant magical land called Athens, Ohio. 1995. Perhaps this was a trap
> to loot me. I decided to travel with this very tall usher to this event.
> Perhaps I would level up.
>
> I knew that, before I entered the grand chamber that was dubbed
> Steppenwolf Theater Company, I?d have to furiously level up and prepare
> for this performance. I acquired a special ability called audio
> description, which was a special mystical voice that would tell my
> visually impaired eyes what would be happening. I made sure that my Meta
> was all the way up before trekking into the Steppenwolf stadium. I
> presumed that I would find some of my missing party there but, alas, as
> I skimmed the names in sadness, not even one name jumped out at me, even
> telepathically. In the hopes that you, reader, will know them, I have
> included the names of the event participants below.
>
> Katherine Bangs (AGNES)
>
> Rinska Carrasco-Prestinary (KALIOPE)
>
> Daeshawna Cook (VERA)
>
> Fred Geyer+ (MILES)
>
> Jessica London-Shields (TILLY)
>
> Allie Long (EVIL TINA/FARRAH)
>
> Morgan Maher (ORCUS)
>
> Jose Nateras (STEVE)
>
> Ellie Reed+ (EVIL GABBI/NARROTOR)
>
> Sara Sawicki+ (LILITH)
>
> Richard Traub (CHUCK)
>
> Upon my arrival into the space I realized that I wasn't the only guest
> that Evanore had invited. Mages were there, as well as elves, and fellow
> humans were present as well but I happened to be the only reviewer in
> the throng of fellow spectators.
>
> I sat down just before Curtin and assessed what this was going to be
> about. I was about to hear a mystical journey about adventure, loss, and
> discovery and holding onto prized possessions and feelings. I
> immediately conjured enough Meta to summon my special perception known
> as audio description, which would allow me to hear, through a headset,
> the actions that the characters did on stage, the costumes, and scene
> changes. A pleasant surprise met my ears as Evan Hatfield, also known as
> Evanore, started articulately describing the set of this event, a
> kitchen inside of a small house.
>
> This event, she kills monsters soon had me swept up in its depth.
> Agnes's life is turned upside down when she stumbles upon her late
> sister?s Dungeons & Dragons notebook. As she embarks on an action-packed
> quest to save her sister's soul, Agnes comes face to face with homicidal
> fairies, raunchy ogres, fairies, orcs, demons, spells. And blood thirsty
> cheerleaders, and discovers a side of herself she never knew existed.
> Qui Nguyen's touching comedy combines real life, fantasy and 90's pop
> culture in the search for the badass in us all.
>
> Not only does this flourishing comedy spin with speedy quips, it also
> manages to touch on deeper subjects in the world today. Agnes not only
> learns what her sister?s fears are about being gay in a cold cruel world
> but Agnes learns what it took for her sister to battle her daemons, even
> if that meant battling them in a different world. This smooth blend of
> comedy between characters and understanding was just the right touch
> that hypnotized me to the core. I even put away my red pen as I laughed
> along with my fellow spectators at a pop culture reference or a funny
> scene, such as the one where Agnes challenges demonic cheerleaders to a
> dance off and then kills them while their back is turned.
>
> My special summon of audio description was very helpful, describing the
> scene in a tone that didn't conflict with the presentation. Evan clearly
> described the set, actions, facial expressions, and the like, not using
> overly complicated words or interpreting the story. There was, however,
> one downfall. The environment prevented my aid from working as
> effectively as it could have been. The music, which had a higher number
> of HP than I did, rendered the audio description impossible to hear at
> times, wounding my eardrums as I attempted to still focus on this
> brilliant blend of dialogue that did two things in one, invoked a
> sympathetic look from me whenever a deeper connection between Agnes and
> her sister and made me titter tantalizingly at some of the pop culture
> cracks. I was transfixed, gleefully enjoying the entertainment despite
> the bump with audio description. What really makes this even so powerful
> is it pinches your attention in a way that just grips you and then keeps
> stunning you with magic tricks of affectionate scenes that show
> understanding to the fullest, alongside the action packed scenes that
> are pumped up a degree by the chosen soundtracks.
>
> Even though the sound tracked rendered audio description useless in some
> areas because I had to strain my straining to hear what Evan was saying
> I?d go to see this toss of fun, love, and light again. It was that well
> put together. Blending a mix of tight morals with the occasional swing
> of slashing comedy that dices the funny bone this enchanted event had me
> praising the creator not long after the curtains rose. Despite the fact
> the music interferes with the audio description it doesn't dwindle the
> experience down to unenjoyably painful
>
> As a well-known traveler in the land of Chicago, I've been asked to
> oversee many important battles. Clashes between fairies, spell casting
> duels, and bar quarrels over gold. In my many explorations I've never
> treated myself to such a delight; I encourage anyone who finds this
> quest log to check out this event at the mystical Steppenwolf theater
> company. You'llnot only have a chance to refill your HP while embarking
> on a quest of laughter, adventure, and love, but I can guarantee that
> you'll level up in ways that you could have never dreamed of. I sure did.
>
> *END OF QUEST LOG*
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:54:05 -0500
> From: "Sam Nelson" <samnelson1 at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
> Message-ID: <002601ce3635$ec612880$c5237980$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> HiKatie,
> ,
> Thanks so much for your response! I felt so much more accepted here
> having
> heard all this from you, and it means a lot!
> I'm hoping that if more and more people develop a similar attitude the
> blindness community can come together a little more by fighting for common
> goals of the group and appreciating each member's contributions even
> ifpersonal views on things like independence vary.
> I also wanted to say you're a good writer, and I'd love to connect with
> you
> personally more on music therapy as I studied that some in college.
> Thanks.
> Sam
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:31 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
>
> Hi all,
>
> Robert brings up a great point.
>
> Personally, I do align pretty closely with the NFB philosophy. I do my own
> laundry, clean and maintain my living spaces, and am learning more and more
> recipes so I can independently cook. I find enjoyment in doing these
> things
> both because things like cooking are fun and there is a sense of pride in
> keeping things clean for me, but also because I can do them myself and
> don't
> have to rely upon or wait for others to help me do them. However, that was
> just how I was raised along with my sighted siblings. I wasn't taught that
> things like doing your own laundry were signs of super-independence, just a
> part of life that most people have to do on a weekly basis or so. Same for
> cooking or at least finding a way to independently feed yourself like if it
> involves independent travel to somewhere to order it. They're just things
> most people in general do and that's how I was taught.
>
> However, I recognize that other people may have different needs separate
> from the visual. I also see independence in the way that Robert does; it's
> not defined by how much you can do on your own for every single person. It
> might be more that way than not for me, but just because that's how I was
> taught it doesn't make others who don't fall into that belief system or
> less
> independent than I am because they're independent in the sense that they're
> choosing what they want to do and how they want to live their lives.
> Robert
> is also right that the NFB philosophy is not set on measuring each person's
> independence quotient or something in terms of a number or percent, but we
> are about changing conceptions of the blind and making life better for
> blind
> people, and in order to do this there is strength in numbers. So, is it
> right to ostricize or exclude people from that effort just because they
> might not do as much for themselves as others? Is what we do or don't do
> for ourselves individually more important than the common goal we are
> trying
> to achieve? I know that even if I had a friend who barely did anything for
> themself, but supported other blind people in terms of independence in the
> work place, or accessibility in college classrooms, I would accept that
> help
> gladly. And, to me a person like that who is willing to fight or support
> independence related to things they themselves may not ever want or need to
> do on their own is just as supportive and important to the causes we fight
> for. Not to mention that supporting things others might want to do, even
> if it doesn't apply to them, speaks volumes about their character.
>
> On 4/10/13, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I love youre response. Keep up the hard work. That is what we all
>> need, perseverance. Let's connect, I am working with a group of
>> people to start a group. One that is a cross of both NFB, ACB, and
>> some own Independant-thinking behind what and how we should become
>> more united within the blindness community, not divided. Have a good
>> day.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:11 PM, "Robert William Kingett"
>> <kingettr at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I too am a member of Friedman place and a competent member of the
>>> blindness community, even if I have someone cook for me. I've raised
>>> money to donate to the NFB and ACB to help their cause, even
>>> supporting my fellow peers with advocacy related matters. I believe
>>> that Friedman place is just the right fit for me. What I don't agree
>>> with is the notion that people, and yes, I've looked at the archives,
>>> have tried to make others do what they deem as independent. I have to
>>> ask
> this very simple question.
>>> What is independence anyway? I believe independence is freedom,
>>> individuality, liberation. I believe that it is freedom from
>>> dependence on or control by another person, organization, or state.
>>> I'm both a member of the NFB and ACB, and I have been nominated to be
>>> president of the LGBT chapter in the ACB, even though I live in a
>>> place that fosters stereotypes and makes people think blind people
>>> can't take care of themselves, apparently. Independence, as stated
>>> above,
> is very different for people.
>>> Someone who's independent is free, and that, I believe, should be
>>> celebrated and applauded. Since a lot of people have said that the
>>> NFB is the optimal way to live I don't understand something. This is
>>> my understanding of the NFB, and correct me if I'm wrong. The mission
>>> of the National Federation of the Blind is to achieve widespread
>>> emotional acceptance and intellectual understanding that the real
>>> problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight but the
>>> misconceptions and lack of information which exist. We do this by
>>> bringing blind people together to share successes, to support each
>>> other in times of failure, and to create imaginative solutions.
>>> Acceptance is a key part of showing sighted people, and people who
>>> have stereotypical perceptions that the NFB are a powerful
>>> organization and not just an organization to adopt a one size fits
>>> all policy. Instead, as I have said before and state again,
>>> independence should be celebrated. We're paying our bills and we're
>>> paying for our food. When we rise in the morning to brighten up the
>>> world we choose, with care, the clothes we wear even if we have help
>>> with washing them. No one dictates my path and I have achieved my
>>> level of independence that I'm very satisfied with. Ii have my own
> apartment and I'm a very strong advocate for both the LGBT community and
> the
> blindness community as well.
>>> When I hear that someone is living on their own and paying their own
>>> bills, even if they have someone cook for them. There independent and
>>> it makes me happy. Why? Because that's a blind person that has broken
>>> down the stereotype of living at home with their parents all of their
>>> lives, and I celebrate that with congratulatory words all the way.
>>> They're an independent person, living how they want to live. It sure
>>> does
> feel good.
>>> As I have said, that's something to be celebrated because, they're
>>> changing what it means to be blind, those beautifully independent
>>> people.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.
>>> com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:55:47 -0500
> From: "Sam Nelson" <samnelson1 at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
> Message-ID: <002701ce3636$29788060$7c698120$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi William,
> I so apriciate your thoughts on all this, and I'd love to join/help in any
> way I can with the forming of your group.
> Thanks.
> Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of wmodnl wmodnl
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:39 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
>
> I love youre response. Keep up the hard work. That is what we all need,
> perseverance. Let's connect, I am working with a group of people to start a
> group. One that is a cross of both NFB, ACB, and some own
> Independant-thinking behind what and how we should become more united within
> the blindness community, not divided. Have a good day.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:11 PM, "Robert William Kingett" <kingettr at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I too am a member of Friedman place and a competent member of the
>> blindness community, even if I have someone cook for me. I've raised money
>> to donate to the NFB and ACB to help their cause, even supporting my
>> fellow peers with advocacy related matters. I believe that Friedman place
>> is just the right fit for me. What I don't agree with is the notion that
>> people, and yes, I've looked at the archives, have tried to make others do
>> what they deem as independent. I have to ask this very simple question.
>> What is independence anyway? I believe independence is freedom,
>> individuality, liberation. I believe that it is freedom from dependence on
>> or control by another person, organization, or state. I'm both a member of
>> the NFB and ACB, and I have been nominated to be president of the LGBT
>> chapter in the ACB, even though I live in a place that fosters stereotypes
>> and makes people think blind people can't take care of themselves,
>> apparently. Independence, as stated above, is very different for people.
>> Someone who's independent is free, and that, I believe, should be
>> celebrated and applauded. Since a lot of people have said that the NFB is
>> the optimal way to live I don't understand something. This is my
>> understanding of the NFB, and correct me if I'm wrong. The mission of the
>> National Federation of the Blind is to achieve widespread emotional
>> acceptance and intellectual understanding that the real problem of
>> blindness is not the loss of eyesight but the misconceptions and lack of
>> information which exist. We do this by bringing blind people together to
>> share successes, to support each other in times of failure, and to create
>> imaginative solutions. Acceptance is a key part of showing sighted people,
>> and people who have stereotypical perceptions that the NFB are a powerful
>> organization and not just an organization to adopt a one size fits all
>> policy. Instead, as I have said before and state again, independence
>> should be celebrated. We?re paying our bills and we?re paying for our
>> food. When we rise in the morning to brighten up the world we choose, with
>> care, the clothes we wear even if we have help with washing them. No one
>> dictates my path and I have achieved my level of independence that I'm
>> very satisfied with. Ii have my own apartment and I'm a very strong
>> advocate for both the LGBT community and the blindness community as well.
>> When I hear that someone is living on their own and paying their own
>> bills, even if they have someone cook for them. There independent and it
>> makes me happy. Why? Because that?s a blind person that has broken down
>> the stereotype of living at home with their parents all of their lives,
>> and I celebrate that with congratulatory words all the way. They're an
>> independent person, living how they want to live. It sure does feel good.
>> As I have said, that's something to be celebrated because, they're
>> changing what it means to be blind, those beautifully independent people.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:19:35 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
> Message-ID: <5165f3b6.2774ec0a.7b1c.175d at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Suzanne, I'm sorry about your VR frustration, I'm sorry to be a
> pessimist here, but I think you're out of luck on this one. I
> just started working with my VR counselor, but from what I know
> of them, they'll find the easiest, most inexpensive solution to
> any problem. "You need new contact lenses. Okay, we'll get you
> the cheap ones from Arizona." As my own VR counselor said, "We
> buy our clients what they need, which isn't always what they'd
> most prefer." And Sam, I have to disagree with you. Though VR can
> be annoying (at least from what I've heard), they do provide
> great services for lots of people. And also... I can't resist
> pointing out an error in your braillenote rant. With the apex,
> you can change the battery yourself.
>
> Best,
> Sophie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Nelson" <samnelson1 at verizon.net
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:44:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
>
> Hi Suzanne,
> I don't have any answers for you on this, other than to pursue
> the appeal,
> but I wanted to write and say I'm sorry this happened.
> To me, your request makes perfect sense. But sometimes voc rehab
> can be so
> frustrating, it just doesn't make sense! I just wanted to say I
> know where
> you're coming from in requesting something and having it denied.
> I'd like a
> braille lite, for example, because I had one before and then my
> mom fried
> it. I like them better than the braillenote because you don't
> need to send
> out every two years to get the battery replaced. I don't need the
> fancy
> stuff on the braillenote with e-mail and everything. I just need
> the
> wordprocessing part, and to make sure it has a compact flash
> slot so I
> can download books on it.
> Anyway, my caseworker in IL said that there was no way I could
> get any
> kind of technology like that unless I was going to work or
> school. And it
> sounded like I would to have been going to work or school for
> awhile before
> they'd get it. But the crazier thing she said that was in order
> to get a
> braillenote or anything similar I'd have to take a test in
> reading and
> writing braille! I mean talk about a waste of time!
> I found someone who was selling their braille lite for a price I
> or my
> family could save up for, so I'll probably end up doing that.
> Sometimes
> honestly they're more trouble than they're worth. But I know
> how hard it
> can be when you really do need their help and they're just making
> things a
> million times worse.
> I really hope you get the Indiana appointment soon! Maybe go to
> your
> caseworker's supervisor and make your case to them? That
> sometimes works.
> I've found sometimes the supervisors are more understanding than
> the people
> we actually work with. ,
> I hope this helps.
> Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
>
> I requested that voc rehab pay for me to have and comprehensive
> examination
> and contacts lenses from Eye Associates in Indiana. The
> specialize in
> Achromatopsia and spend 4 hours working to find the right color
> contacts to
> match each person's needs.
>
> I have used red lenses for years but now that I am back in school
> and
> reading a lot and the classrooms are extremely bright. I have
> found the need
> to find a better color.
>
> They denied it because they use 3 vendors in Arizona (where I
> live) for low
> vision services. None of these 3 do the extensive exam. In
> Indiana I try on
> several color actual contacts then see how they work for reading
> how they
> work with my sunglasses for out side. My prescription is in
> glasses because
> it makes my near vision (which I use mostly at school) very
> blurry) But I
> need the color filter due to extreme photophobia.
>
> I only asked for the cost of the exam (above medicare) and the
> actual
> contacts. I did nto ask them to cover any transportation costs.
>
> They claim they cannot use out of state services if it is
> available in
> Arizona. I explained that yes they have low vision exams but none
> can do
> what the one in Indiana can do. One even tried to tell me to have
> my
> prescription in my clear contacts then have multiple colored
> glasses even
> after I explained I cannot do the script in the contacts or I
> cannot read,
> use my computer, write without a headache from it being blurry.
>
> I filed an appeal but my appointment is May 14th. I am going when
> I will
> already be in the midwest for my daughter's college graduation.
>
> Any pointers?
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40
> verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:06:30 -0600
> From: "melissa Green" <lissa1531 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
> Message-ID: <09F870C71C804E7CAD8664724F2A6406 at HP30910210001>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sam,
> sorry that some people made you feel unwelcomed or like you aren't
> independent enough.
> You are so right, independence is what you define it to be, noone else's
> definition.
> I would add that freedom of choice is part of being independent.
> Sincerely,
> Melissa and Pj
> Find me at:
> Twitter melissa5674
> facebook Melissa R Green
> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Nelson" <samnelson1 at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place,a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
>
>
> Hi Mauricio,
> >From reading about some of the views of people in the NFB, it does sound
> like this happens at times. Like people feel they need to do absolutely
> everything completely on their own and not ask for help at all.
> As Robert pointed out last night, and I have been trying to say,
> independence is different for different people. My version of independence
> is just as valid, for me, as anyone else's. I'm not telling any of you who
> are happy living alone and have a different perspective than I do to come
> move here. So I wish people wouldn't keep continuing to say on the one hand
> that they're happy I'm here, but on the other hand that I should really go
> to a center that I've said several times I'm not interested in, and that
> my
> life would be so much better if I lived on my own. You don't know the ins
> and outs of my circumstances, and I don't feel like I need to tell you. But
> to keep up trying to get me to do things your way, even if it's in a
> subtle
> way, is just very overwhelming for me.
> When I wrote this list I did so with the good intention of just giving
> information about a place that has helped me and others so much. I know
> how
> hard the transition to being a young adult can be and all the factors that
> take considering. I just didn't want anyone to have to search as long and
> hard as I did to find Friedman, if they were looking for a place like this.
> I didn't think I'd get so much controversy in return, or be made to feel
> like my life will only be "at it's potential," if I live completely on my
> own as so many of you are. I appreciate this works for you, but don't
> appreciate being subtly pressured into adopting this lifestyle for myself.
> I think this conversation has run its course, and some of us are gonna
> have to agree to disagree on some things. Like I said, in putting this
> information out there I never thought this would happen.
> I will say that if anyone is interested in learning more about Friedman
> for
> either themselves or a friend or family member you're welcome to write me
> off list.
> Thanks so much.
> Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio
> Almeida
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:42 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
>
> what happens is that some blind people tend on having to have a sense of
> super independence in order to accept themselves, and so any solution which
> contradicts this sense of over acceptance is denied.
> I'm glad that it isn't the case within the federation, because i've seen
> way
> too many of this kind abroad.
> On Apr 9, 2013, at 6:57 AM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sam!
>> First of all, welcome to the list!
>> I'm against these supportive living facilities, because it gives the
> notion that blind people can't get employment, take care of themselves,
> cook
> for themselves, etc.
>> I'm not hear to be offensive to you, but I'd like to share with you the
> fact, that there is a better life!
>> Have you ever heard of the Louisiana Center for the Blind?
>> They'll teach you the independence skills, so that you can take care of
> yourself, and get a job!
>> We aren't some charity ccase for the state!
>> I'm praying that you can get in this training center.
>> The only good a supportive living facility is only for those with other
> disabilities.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sam Nelson
>> [samnelson1 at verizon.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 5:43 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
>> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
>>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> First I apologize if some of you have read about this already from me, as
>> I've posted it to the Massachusetts and IL student's mailing lists. I
>> just really want to let everyone I can know about the wonderful place
>> I call home, in case othersare in a similar situation to me and could
>> see it as an option for either short or long-term living.
>>
>> I'm24 years old and totally blind. I'm originally from MA, and moved
>> this past June to Friedman Place, a residential community for blind
>> adults ages 22-elderly in Chicago.
>>
>> Friedman Place is one of two supportive living communities in the
>> country, the other being Mary Bryant in Springfield.
>>
>> Since moving to Friedman my life has dramatically changed in a
>> positive way. Here everyone has their own apartment, yet there is
>> staff available 24/7if needed. Laundry and housekeeping services are
>> optional. There are microwaves in our apartments, but beyond that we
>> can't cook for ourselves as we eat in the dining room.
>>
>> Certified Nursing assistants help with daily things such as medication
>> reminders, doing our nails, going for walks, or just hanging out and
> talking
>> with us. There are a variety of activities provided including: bingo,
>> other card games, a movement class, line dancing, a support group, e
>> exercise classes, and others. I feel as more younger people move to
>> the facility, the types of activitys will reflect that.
>>
>> The nursing services are available daily, though not 24 hours. This is
>> not a nursing home, so people with severe medical issues probably
>> wouldn't be a good fit. I think the best fit for Friedman is someone
>> who feels they want or need to live in a community environment, with a
>> caring group of peers, and security and support from staff. This could
>> be
> someone who's
>> transitioning from a school for the blind or really any school and
> trying
>> to figure out what they want to do after. It could be someone who just
>> wants to get out of their parent's house, for whatever reason doesn't
>> have
> or want
>> to live with relatives other friends, or want a roommate. It could be
>> someone who has mild emotional/ cognitive challenges, and so would would
> do
>> well in an environment where there was independence but also a feeling
> of
>> support, and where they couldn't isolate as easily and fall through
>> the cracks in a way they could if living alone or just with a
>> roommate. Or, someone could want to move here purely for security
>> reasons, as many low-income disability housing apartments are in really
> bad neighborhoods.
>>
>> Staff are very client centered, in that residents plan how they want
>> their lives to go. It's a great place to come and have a solid
>> homebase to grow from. There are many oppurtunities in the city for
>> volunteer or payed work, education, and socialization. Each resident
>> is assigned a care advocate, who they meet with regularly to discuss
>> issues going on either at Friedman and also talking about what they'd
>> like to do out in the community. I feel the social worker in
>> particular, is a very caring, friendly person who's very knowledgable
> about resources in the community.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also want to be clear that this is not a foster care, group home, or
>> nursing home situation. As long as residents sign in and out, for
>> safety reasons of course, they can come and go as they please. They
>> can have guests over til midnight without the guest having to get a
>> background check. If they want guests to spend the night, all the
>> person needs to do is fill out a quick background check form for
>> safety.
>>
>> I feel that with the mix of older and younger residents, it really is
>> like a family. I'm a sensitive person who in the past has isolated a
>> lot. Here I feel I have a purpose and have solid friendships for the
>> first time in my life.
>>
>> There are only two other people in their 20s currently at Friedman,
>> I'm really hoping we can get more. The cost of living here is
>> covered by medicade, as well as a portion of one's social security check.
>>
>> There's no requirement on how long you need to stay. Some people stay
>> for six months, and consider it a stepping stone to living
>> completely on one's own. . Others have been here for years and
>> consider it home. It's all up to the person.
>>
>> I just know that if I had known at 15 or 16 that there was a safe
>> supportive place I could go when I was 22, I would have been way less
>> stressed about the future.
>>
>> At the end of this message I'll post the links to my videos to learn
>> more.
>>
>> Lastly, in addition to letting others know of my positive experience
>> here at Friedman, my second mission is to advocate for similar
>> facilities to be opened in other states. Doing the research I have
>> and hearing from many people, it's obvious that the need is there,
>> particularly for those from 18 to 22, of which there seems to be very
> little services. I wish the age
>> requirement were 18, but right now it isn't. (Don't give up if you're
> in
>> that age group and interested in Friedman! Just be patient, and maybe
>> soon things will change for the better!) So * if any of you want to
>> discuss this other project I'd really appreciate it.
>>
>> Thanks for reading, and I look forward to getting to know more of you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> Video links:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG4SWYVxqA4
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQTBKEnPup8
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu
>> a.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%
>> 40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:11:41 -0500
> From: Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com>
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
> Message-ID: <5165FFBD.3080206 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I'm sorry to say that there isn't much that you can do. For contact
> lenses you'll have to pursue that avenue yourself. Even though a
> rehabilitation agency for the blind is supposed to provide you with
> tools, or resources that you'll be able to do your work successfully in
> school or elsewhere, most agencies will only either a, go with what they
> frequently do, like for example getting clients jaws for windows even if
> they prefer window eyes. Why? Because that agency is used to getting
> JAWS and the like. Or, B, go with a cheap solution. Understandable, but
> unacceptable. Also, from my personal experience. Counselors seem to like
> newly blind people because they haven?t yet formed educated opinions
> about what's better, for them, in the adaptive technology market. Those
> kind of blind people are much easier to serve because they will take
> anything without question and don?t need anything anymore complex. Also,
> even though this is going on a tangent, they tend to lean just a bit
> more appreciatively to simple outcomes. What I mean by this is they like
> the clients with simple needs that can be resolved once and that's it
> and don't need ongoing service, upgrades, etc. these are just my
> personal opinions and don't reflect the agencies as a whole because
> there's some people who work in the field who are real gems, and they
> understand the client, not just understand their immediate needs and
> treat them with a pacifier until later when the client realizes a
> permanent, yet very expensive solution, or the like. Every person is
> different. As I have said, these are just some of the things that I,
> myself, personally, have noticed and they don't reflect every agency or
> every social worker. I?d quietly remind your counselor, not to mention
> her entire staff that this is a facility, a dedicated team, that
> provides vocational rehabilitation. VR accomplishes this by providing
> support and services to promote the acquisition of skills and
> experiential learning that will support the consumer in meeting his/her
> independent living and vocational goals as well as the technology to
> achieve and acquire such learning, or accommodations, not technology,
> sorry. I didn't have my coffee yet. Remember, they are there to provide,
> you, as a client, specific barrier removal including assistive
> technology or computer training, as well as Braille, use of low-vision
> devises for job related functions, and/or other blindness related skill
> training as well as employment, etc., any kind of training or the
> tools/technology to acquire the training or job. Provision of
> rehabilitation counseling, as well as access to services and resources
> to support adjustment to blindness to achieve independence is given:
> This refers to the intellectual, emotional, and social adjustment to
> blindness and visual impairment as well as the provision of techniques,
> tools, and equipment which will enable the consumer to achieve
> independent living and travel functioning. You need those lenses to be
> able to do what you need to do and to function independently, use that
> word. Independently. That word will make a lot of people listen. Apart
> from that, I?d say tell their board staff. Provide a logical case with
> fact sheets and all this to present your case saying why you need these
> lenses. Make a clear case, not an emotion filled one. That isn't what
> you need and that won?t get you heard at all. present your case, first,
> to your counselor, and if she says no again, tell her, in plain English,
> no metaphors, no if?s, ands, or buts, tell her that you?re going to go
> up the chain of command because you were denied technology to allow you
> to function independently. Do this with her supervisor. Tell her the
> same thing. Tell her word for word. Don't change anything. Don't add
> anything or remove anything. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Yes, if you have
> to, contact the president. I hope that this helps you.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:18:44 -0500
> From: "Sam Nelson" <samnelson1 at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
> Message-ID: <000001ce364a$210468e0$630d3aa0$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi Melisa and PJ,
> That's ok. Thanks for your thoughts though, it means a lot.
> Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa Green
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 7:06 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
>
> Sam,
> sorry that some people made you feel unwelcomed or like you aren't
> independent enough.
> You are so right, independence is what you define it to be, noone else's
> definition.
> I would add that freedom of choice is part of being independent.
> Sincerely,
> Melissa and Pj
> Find me at:
> Twitter melissa5674
> facebook Melissa R Green
> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Nelson" <samnelson1 at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place,a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
>
>
> Hi Mauricio,
> >From reading about some of the views of people in the NFB, it does sound
> like this happens at times. Like people feel they need to do absolutely
> everything completely on their own and not ask for help at all.
> As Robert pointed out last night, and I have been trying to say,
> independence is different for different people. My version of independence
> is just as valid, for me, as anyone else's. I'm not telling any of you who
> are happy living alone and have a different perspective than I do to come
> move here. So I wish people wouldn't keep continuing to say on the one hand
> that they're happy I'm here, but on the other hand that I should really go
> to a center that I've said several times I'm not interested in, and that
> my
> life would be so much better if I lived on my own. You don't know the ins
> and outs of my circumstances, and I don't feel like I need to tell you. But
> to keep up trying to get me to do things your way, even if it's in a
> subtle
> way, is just very overwhelming for me.
> When I wrote this list I did so with the good intention of just giving
> information about a place that has helped me and others so much. I know
> how
> hard the transition to being a young adult can be and all the factors that
> take considering. I just didn't want anyone to have to search as long and
> hard as I did to find Friedman, if they were looking for a place like this.
> I didn't think I'd get so much controversy in return, or be made to feel
> like my life will only be "at it's potential," if I live completely on my
> own as so many of you are. I appreciate this works for you, but don't
> appreciate being subtly pressured into adopting this lifestyle for myself.
> I think this conversation has run its course, and some of us are gonna
> have
> to agree to disagree on some things. Like I said, in putting this
> information out there I never thought this would happen.
> I will say that if anyone is interested in learning more about Friedman
> for
> either themselves or a friend or family member you're welcome to write me
> off list.
> Thanks so much.
> Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mauricio
> Almeida
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:42 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
>
> what happens is that some blind people tend on having to have a sense of
> super independence in order to accept themselves, and so any solution which
> contradicts this sense of over acceptance is denied.
> I'm glad that it isn't the case within the federation, because i've seen
> way
> too many of this kind abroad.
> On Apr 9, 2013, at 6:57 AM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sam!
>> First of all, welcome to the list!
>> I'm against these supportive living facilities, because it gives the
> notion that blind people can't get employment, take care of themselves,
> cook
> for themselves, etc.
>> I'm not hear to be offensive to you, but I'd like to share with you
>> the
> fact, that there is a better life!
>> Have you ever heard of the Louisiana Center for the Blind?
>> They'll teach you the independence skills, so that you can take care
>> of
> yourself, and get a job!
>> We aren't some charity ccase for the state!
>> I'm praying that you can get in this training center.
>> The only good a supportive living facility is only for those with
>> other
> disabilities.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sam Nelson
>> [samnelson1 at verizon.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 5:43 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Wanted to share my experience living at Friedman
>> Place, a supportive living community for blind adults in Chicago
>>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> First I apologize if some of you have read about this already from me, as
>> I've posted it to the Massachusetts and IL student's mailing lists. I
>> just really want to let everyone I can know about the wonderful place
>> I call home, in case othersare in a similar situation to me and could
>> see it as an option for either short or long-term living.
>>
>> I'm24 years old and totally blind. I'm originally from MA, and moved
>> this past June to Friedman Place, a residential community for blind
>> adults ages 22-elderly in Chicago.
>>
>> Friedman Place is one of two supportive living communities in the
>> country, the other being Mary Bryant in Springfield.
>>
>> Since moving to Friedman my life has dramatically changed in a
>> positive way. Here everyone has their own apartment, yet there is
>> staff available 24/7if needed. Laundry and housekeeping services are
>> optional. There are microwaves in our apartments, but beyond that we
>> can't cook for ourselves as we eat in the dining room.
>>
>> Certified Nursing assistants help with daily things such as medication
>> reminders, doing our nails, going for walks, or just hanging out and
> talking
>> with us. There are a variety of activities provided including: bingo,
>> other card games, a movement class, line dancing, a support group, e
>> exercise classes, and others. I feel as more younger people move to
>> the facility, the types of activitys will reflect that.
>>
>> The nursing services are available daily, though not 24 hours. This is
>> not a nursing home, so people with severe medical issues probably
>> wouldn't be a good fit. I think the best fit for Friedman is someone
>> who feels they want or need to live in a community environment, with a
>> caring group of peers, and security and support from staff. This
>> could be
> someone who's
>> transitioning from a school for the blind or really any school and
> trying
>> to figure out what they want to do after. It could be someone who just
>> wants to get out of their parent's house, for whatever reason doesn't
>> have
> or want
>> to live with relatives other friends, or want a roommate. It could be
>> someone who has mild emotional/ cognitive challenges, and so would
>> would
> do
>> well in an environment where there was independence but also a feeling
> of
>> support, and where they couldn't isolate as easily and fall through
>> the cracks in a way they could if living alone or just with a
>> roommate. Or, someone could want to move here purely for security
>> reasons, as many low-income disability housing apartments are in
>> really
> bad neighborhoods.
>>
>> Staff are very client centered, in that residents plan how they want
>> their lives to go. It's a great place to come and have a solid
>> homebase to grow from. There are many oppurtunities in the city for
>> volunteer or payed work, education, and socialization. Each resident
>> is assigned a care advocate, who they meet with regularly to discuss
>> issues going on either at Friedman and also talking about what they'd
>> like to do out in the community. I feel the social worker in
>> particular, is a very caring, friendly person who's very knowledgable
> about resources in the community.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also want to be clear that this is not a foster care, group home, or
>> nursing home situation. As long as residents sign in and out, for
>> safety reasons of course, they can come and go as they please. They
>> can have guests over til midnight without the guest having to get a
>> background check. If they want guests to spend the night, all the
>> person needs to do is fill out a quick background check form for
>> safety.
>>
>> I feel that with the mix of older and younger residents, it really is
>> like a family. I'm a sensitive person who in the past has isolated a
>> lot. Here I feel I have a purpose and have solid friendships for the
>> first time in my life.
>>
>> There are only two other people in their 20s currently at Friedman,
>> I'm really hoping we can get more. The cost of living here is
>> covered by medicade, as well as a portion of one's social security check.
>>
>> There's no requirement on how long you need to stay. Some people stay
>> for six months, and consider it a stepping stone to living
>> completely on one's own. . Others have been here for years and
>> consider it home. It's all up to the person.
>>
>> I just know that if I had known at 15 or 16 that there was a safe
>> supportive place I could go when I was 22, I would have been way less
>> stressed about the future.
>>
>> At the end of this message I'll post the links to my videos to learn
>> more.
>>
>> Lastly, in addition to letting others know of my positive experience
>> here at Friedman, my second mission is to advocate for similar
>> facilities to be opened in other states. Doing the research I have
>> and hearing from many people, it's obvious that the need is there,
>> particularly for those from 18 to 22, of which there seems to be very
> little services. I wish the age
>> requirement were 18, but right now it isn't. (Don't give up if you're
> in
>> that age group and interested in Friedman! Just be patient, and maybe
>> soon things will change for the better!) So * if any of you want to
>> discuss this other project I'd really appreciate it.
>>
>> Thanks for reading, and I look forward to getting to know more of you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> Video links:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG4SWYVxqA4
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQTBKEnPup8
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu
>> a.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mauriciopmalmeida%
>> 40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/samnelson1%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:26:40 -0500
> From: Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com>
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
> Message-ID: <51660340.4060500 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I'm sorry to say that there isn't much that you can do. For contact
> lenses you'll have to pursue that avenue yourself. Even though a
> rehabilitation agency for the blind is supposed to provide you with
> tools, or resources that you'll be able to do your work successfully in
> school or elsewhere, most agencies will only either a, go with what they
> frequently do, like for example getting clients jaws for windows even if
> they prefer window eyes. Why? Because that agency is used to getting
> JAWS and the like. Or, B, go with a cheap solution. Understandable, but
> unacceptable. Also, from my personal experience. Counselors seem to like
> newly blind people because they haven?t yet formed educated opinions
> about what's better, for them, in the adaptive technology market. Those
> kind of blind people are much easier to serve because they will take
> anything without question and don?t need anything anymore complex. Also,
> even though this is going on a tangent, they tend to lean just a bit
> more appreciatively to simple outcomes. What I mean by this is they like
> the clients with simple needs that can be resolved once and that's it
> and don't need ongoing service, upgrades, etc. these are just my
> personal opinions and don't reflect the agencies as a whole because
> there's some people who work in the field who are real gems, and they
> understand the client, not just understand their immediate needs and
> treat them with a pacifier until later when the client realizes a
> permanent, yet very expensive solution, or the like. Every person is
> different. As I have said, these are just some of the things that I,
> myself, personally, have noticed and they don't reflect every agency or
> every social worker. I?d quietly remind your counselor, not to mention
> her entire staff that this is a facility, a dedicated team, that
> provides vocational rehabilitation. VR accomplishes this by providing
> support and services to promote the acquisition of skills and
> experiential learning that will support the consumer in meeting his/her
> independent living and vocational goals as well as the technology to
> achieve and acquire such learning, or accommodations, not technology,
> sorry. I didn't have my coffee yet. Remember, they are there to provide,
> you, as a client, specific barrier removal including assistive
> technology or computer training, as well as Braille, use of low-vision
> devises for job related functions, and/or other blindness related skill
> training as well as employment, etc., any kind of training or the
> tools/technology to acquire the training or job. Provision of
> rehabilitation counseling, as well as access to services and resources
> to support adjustment to blindness to achieve independence is given:
> This refers to the intellectual, emotional, and social adjustment to
> blindness and visual impairment as well as the provision of techniques,
> tools, and equipment which will enable the consumer to achieve
> independent living and travel functioning. You need those lenses to be
> able to do what you need to do and to function independently, use that
> word. Independently. That word will make a lot of people listen. Apart
> from that, I?d say tell their board staff. Provide a logical case with
> fact sheets and all this to present your case saying why you need these
> lenses. Make a clear case, not an emotion filled one. That isn't what
> you need and that won?t get you heard at all. present your case, first,
> to your counselor, and if she says no again, tell her, in plain English,
> no metaphors, no if?s, ands, or buts, tell her that you?re going to go
> up the chain of command because you were denied technology to allow you
> to function independently. Do this with her supervisor. Tell her the
> same thing. Tell her word for word. Don't change anything. Don't add
> anything or remove anything. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Yes, if you have
> to, contact the president. I hope that this helps you.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:17:10 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJD4wr+Z9W=xc0qqg18aiGQYpw=jen+PBNYJH6u-r3HSHg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> VR will pay for an out-of-state vendor if you can prove to them that
> the vendor is better than what you can get in-state. If you haven't
> already, you should write a letter describing why this vendor is
> superior, and send it to your counselor and to his supervisor. You
> should also contact Bob Kresmer in AZ to see if he can help you with
> your appeal. His phone number is:
> 520-733-5894
> or
> krezguy at cox.net
> He is the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
> and he knows who is at the top in Arizona VR. If you think getting a
> prescription from this place will make a difference in your education,
> you should pursue it.
> As I mentioned in a previous email, I also think that learning the
> basics of JAWS, or another screen reader, would benefit you a lot in
> your studies and your everyday life. Have you talked with VR at all
> about getting screen reading software?
> Best of luck,
> Arielle
>
> On 4/10/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm sorry to say that there isn't much that you can do. For contact
>> lenses you'll have to pursue that avenue yourself. Even though a
>> rehabilitation agency for the blind is supposed to provide you with
>> tools, or resources that you'll be able to do your work successfully in
>> school or elsewhere, most agencies will only either a, go with what they
>> frequently do, like for example getting clients jaws for windows even if
>> they prefer window eyes. Why? Because that agency is used to getting
>> JAWS and the like. Or, B, go with a cheap solution. Understandable, but
>> unacceptable. Also, from my personal experience. Counselors seem to like
>> newly blind people because they haven?t yet formed educated opinions
>> about what's better, for them, in the adaptive technology market. Those
>> kind of blind people are much easier to serve because they will take
>> anything without question and don?t need anything anymore complex. Also,
>> even though this is going on a tangent, they tend to lean just a bit
>> more appreciatively to simple outcomes. What I mean by this is they like
>> the clients with simple needs that can be resolved once and that's it
>> and don't need ongoing service, upgrades, etc. these are just my
>> personal opinions and don't reflect the agencies as a whole because
>> there's some people who work in the field who are real gems, and they
>> understand the client, not just understand their immediate needs and
>> treat them with a pacifier until later when the client realizes a
>> permanent, yet very expensive solution, or the like. Every person is
>> different. As I have said, these are just some of the things that I,
>> myself, personally, have noticed and they don't reflect every agency or
>> every social worker. I?d quietly remind your counselor, not to mention
>> her entire staff that this is a facility, a dedicated team, that
>> provides vocational rehabilitation. VR accomplishes this by providing
>> support and services to promote the acquisition of skills and
>> experiential learning that will support the consumer in meeting his/her
>> independent living and vocational goals as well as the technology to
>> achieve and acquire such learning, or accommodations, not technology,
>> sorry. I didn't have my coffee yet. Remember, they are there to provide,
>> you, as a client, specific barrier removal including assistive
>> technology or computer training, as well as Braille, use of low-vision
>> devises for job related functions, and/or other blindness related skill
>> training as well as employment, etc., any kind of training or the
>> tools/technology to acquire the training or job. Provision of
>> rehabilitation counseling, as well as access to services and resources
>> to support adjustment to blindness to achieve independence is given:
>> This refers to the intellectual, emotional, and social adjustment to
>> blindness and visual impairment as well as the provision of techniques,
>> tools, and equipment which will enable the consumer to achieve
>> independent living and travel functioning. You need those lenses to be
>> able to do what you need to do and to function independently, use that
>> word. Independently. That word will make a lot of people listen. Apart
>> from that, I?d say tell their board staff. Provide a logical case with
>> fact sheets and all this to present your case saying why you need these
>> lenses. Make a clear case, not an emotion filled one. That isn't what
>> you need and that won?t get you heard at all. present your case, first,
>> to your counselor, and if she says no again, tell her, in plain English,
>> no metaphors, no if?s, ands, or buts, tell her that you?re going to go
>> up the chain of command because you were denied technology to allow you
>> to function independently. Do this with her supervisor. Tell her the
>> same thing. Tell her word for word. Don't change anything. Don't add
>> anything or remove anything. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Yes, if you have
>> to, contact the president. I hope that this helps you.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:28:37 -0700
> From: Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
> Message-ID:
> <CAF=_avcREuRw+qHP12OtDMXsLW3-+WuWc2Sp+z5T8n9vNYXhtw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Yes I have also found this to be the case for the most part with voc rehab.
>
> I was in school several years ago and requested a copy machine so I could
> do all my large printing because the teachers were not putting in thier
> book orders in time for APH to large print the books. They denied it at
> first but I stood my ground. I showed them that over time this was actually
> less expensive and I would be more successful in my courses having large
> print form day one and on demand. I got the copy machine and it really
> worked well for my needs.
>
> In this case none of the Arizona eye doctors can do what the one's in
> Indiana can. I am only asking for the cost of the exam and the contacts.
> The contacts which they approved to buy will not be any cheaper if the A
> doctor orders them. But what they will be is the wrong color and darkness
> since none of the AZ doctors have adequate means to find the right color.
> Some achoromats actually use one color in one eye and one in another. They
> did not even offer to pay a portion based on what the AZ vendors would
> charge them.
>
> The supervisor is the one who is the problem. The hard part is the
> counselor being the middle man so she is not adequately explaining my needs
> and why this would be the right choice.
>
> I filed an official appeal. Then I got a call from the ombudsman saying my
> counselor told her I no longer wanted to proceed with the appeal. I said
> that was not true. I do want the appeal.
>
> I submitted a 15 page document stating my cse including what each of the AZ
> doctors said they would do. One picks the color based on a few "most
> popular" colors yet most eye doctors have never seen an achromat or fitted
> them with the right color filter.
>
> I already spent $1000 out of pocket for script glasses, script sunglasses
> and trying to back off the darkness of my contacts by 30% I only needed
> these for school or work. While I was unemployed I just used contacts with
> script since I wasn't doing any close work. The 30% reduction wasn't
> enough. I need to find a different color. The red makes it harder to read.
> So it may turn out I need orange or magenta but I won't know that unless I
> go to a place that can properly test for the right color.
>
> I can say they did go with my choice for transportable cctv (the magnilink)
> and for hand held cctv.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Robert William Kingett
> <kingettr at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry to say that there isn't much that you can do. For contact
>> lenses
>> you'll have to pursue that avenue yourself. Even though a rehabilitation
>> agency for the blind is supposed to provide you with tools, or resources
>> that you'll be able to do your work successfully in school or elsewhere,
>> most agencies will only either a, go with what they frequently do, like
>> for
>> example getting clients jaws for windows even if they prefer window eyes.
>> Why? Because that agency is used to getting JAWS and the like. Or, B, go
>> with a cheap solution. Understandable, but unacceptable. Also, from my
>> personal experience. Counselors seem to like newly blind people because
>> they haven?t yet formed educated opinions about what's better, for them,
>> in
>> the adaptive technology market. Those kind of blind people are much
>> easier
>> to serve because they will take anything without question and don?t need
>> anything anymore complex. Also, even though this is going on a tangent,
>> they tend to lean just a bit more appreciatively to simple outcomes. What
>> I
>> mean by this is they like the clients with simple needs that can be
>> resolved once and that's it and don't need ongoing service, upgrades,
>> etc.
>> these are just my personal opinions and don't reflect the agencies as a
>> whole because there's some people who work in the field who are real
>> gems,
>> and they understand the client, not just understand their immediate needs
>> and treat them with a pacifier until later when the client realizes a
>> permanent, yet very expensive solution, or the like. Every person is
>> different. As I have said, these are just some of the things that I,
>> myself, personally, have noticed and they don't reflect every agency or
>> every social worker. I?d quietly remind your counselor, not to mention
>> her
>> entire staff that this is a facility, a dedicated team, that provides
>> vocational rehabilitation. VR accomplishes this by providing support and
>> services to promote the acquisition of skills and experiential learning
>> that will support the consumer in meeting his/her independent living and
>> vocational goals as well as the technology to achieve and acquire such
>> learning, or accommodations, not technology, sorry. I didn't have my
>> coffee
>> yet. Remember, they are there to provide, you, as a client, specific
>> barrier removal including assistive technology or computer training, as
>> well as Braille, use of low-vision devises for job related functions,
>> and/or other blindness related skill training as well as employment,
>> etc.,
>> any kind of training or the tools/technology to acquire the training or
>> job. Provision of rehabilitation counseling, as well as access to
>> services
>> and resources to support adjustment to blindness to achieve independence
>> is
>> given: This refers to the intellectual, emotional, and social adjustment
>> to
>> blindness and visual impairment as well as the provision of techniques,
>> tools, and equipment which will enable the consumer to achieve
>> independent
>> living and travel functioning. You need those lenses to be able to do
>> what
>> you need to do and to function independently, use that word.
>> Independently.
>> That word will make a lot of people listen. Apart from that, I?d say tell
>> their board staff. Provide a logical case with fact sheets and all this
>> to
>> present your case saying why you need these lenses. Make a clear case,
>> not
>> an emotion filled one. That isn't what you need and that won?t get you
>> heard at all. present your case, first, to your counselor, and if she
>> says
>> no again, tell her, in plain English, no metaphors, no if?s, ands, or
>> buts,
>> tell her that you?re going to go up the chain of command because you were
>> denied technology to allow you to function independently. Do this with
>> her
>> supervisor. Tell her the same thing. Tell her word for word. Don't change
>> anything. Don't add anything or remove anything. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
>> Yes, if you have to, contact the president. I hope that this helps you.
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:33:52 -0700
> From: Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
> Message-ID:
> <CAF=_avefrQpfGPdhkaa98SKissWf+fS=m1EUmxzGyJ3LONEOGg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Thank you I will contact Bob.
>
> I submitted a 15 page document with my appeal. I explained how each of
> their doctors would try to fit me with colored lenses. I contacted each of
> them and included the actual emails from them. The eye doctor in Indiana
> sent them a 4-5 page document on what they do which I included again in my
> appeal.
>
> I will be submitted a request for ZoomText with speech for both the mac and
> Windows next week. I am a Software Engineering major so on the computer all
> the time. Before school mac zoom was enough but it does not follow the
> insertion point just the mouse pointer. I will also be doing an internship
> this summer and need to have the right technology. The more successful my
> internships the better chance I have of finding employment upon graduation.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Arielle Silverman <
> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>
>> VR will pay for an out-of-state vendor if you can prove to them that
>> the vendor is better than what you can get in-state. If you haven't
>> already, you should write a letter describing why this vendor is
>> superior, and send it to your counselor and to his supervisor. You
>> should also contact Bob Kresmer in AZ to see if he can help you with
>> your appeal. His phone number is:
>> 520-733-5894
>> or
>> krezguy at cox.net
>> He is the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
>> and he knows who is at the top in Arizona VR. If you think getting a
>> prescription from this place will make a difference in your education,
>> you should pursue it.
>> As I mentioned in a previous email, I also think that learning the
>> basics of JAWS, or another screen reader, would benefit you a lot in
>> your studies and your everyday life. Have you talked with VR at all
>> about getting screen reading software?
>> Best of luck,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 4/10/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I'm sorry to say that there isn't much that you can do. For contact
>> > lenses you'll have to pursue that avenue yourself. Even though a
>> > rehabilitation agency for the blind is supposed to provide you with
>> > tools, or resources that you'll be able to do your work successfully in
>> > school or elsewhere, most agencies will only either a, go with what
>> > they
>> > frequently do, like for example getting clients jaws for windows even
>> > if
>> > they prefer window eyes. Why? Because that agency is used to getting
>> > JAWS and the like. Or, B, go with a cheap solution. Understandable, but
>> > unacceptable. Also, from my personal experience. Counselors seem to
>> > like
>> > newly blind people because they haven?t yet formed educated opinions
>> > about what's better, for them, in the adaptive technology market. Those
>> > kind of blind people are much easier to serve because they will take
>> > anything without question and don?t need anything anymore complex.
>> > Also,
>> > even though this is going on a tangent, they tend to lean just a bit
>> > more appreciatively to simple outcomes. What I mean by this is they
>> > like
>> > the clients with simple needs that can be resolved once and that's it
>> > and don't need ongoing service, upgrades, etc. these are just my
>> > personal opinions and don't reflect the agencies as a whole because
>> > there's some people who work in the field who are real gems, and they
>> > understand the client, not just understand their immediate needs and
>> > treat them with a pacifier until later when the client realizes a
>> > permanent, yet very expensive solution, or the like. Every person is
>> > different. As I have said, these are just some of the things that I,
>> > myself, personally, have noticed and they don't reflect every agency or
>> > every social worker. I?d quietly remind your counselor, not to mention
>> > her entire staff that this is a facility, a dedicated team, that
>> > provides vocational rehabilitation. VR accomplishes this by providing
>> > support and services to promote the acquisition of skills and
>> > experiential learning that will support the consumer in meeting his/her
>> > independent living and vocational goals as well as the technology to
>> > achieve and acquire such learning, or accommodations, not technology,
>> > sorry. I didn't have my coffee yet. Remember, they are there to
>> > provide,
>> > you, as a client, specific barrier removal including assistive
>> > technology or computer training, as well as Braille, use of low-vision
>> > devises for job related functions, and/or other blindness related skill
>> > training as well as employment, etc., any kind of training or the
>> > tools/technology to acquire the training or job. Provision of
>> > rehabilitation counseling, as well as access to services and resources
>> > to support adjustment to blindness to achieve independence is given:
>> > This refers to the intellectual, emotional, and social adjustment to
>> > blindness and visual impairment as well as the provision of techniques,
>> > tools, and equipment which will enable the consumer to achieve
>> > independent living and travel functioning. You need those lenses to be
>> > able to do what you need to do and to function independently, use that
>> > word. Independently. That word will make a lot of people listen. Apart
>> > from that, I?d say tell their board staff. Provide a logical case with
>> > fact sheets and all this to present your case saying why you need these
>> > lenses. Make a clear case, not an emotion filled one. That isn't what
>> > you need and that won?t get you heard at all. present your case, first,
>> > to your counselor, and if she says no again, tell her, in plain
>> > English,
>> > no metaphors, no if?s, ands, or buts, tell her that you?re going to go
>> > up the chain of command because you were denied technology to allow you
>> > to function independently. Do this with her supervisor. Tell her the
>> > same thing. Tell her word for word. Don't change anything. Don't add
>> > anything or remove anything. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Yes, if you have
>> > to, contact the president. I hope that this helps you.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:20:02 -0400
> From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
> Message-ID:
> <CAFja7FaXMPFVVs-Bj8u9pyjXB-X8O4csqJaupe+G1mZ7cVcchg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hi,
>
> What also might be beneficial is if you can get someone from the
> company in Indiana to substantiate your claims. I've run into issues
> like what Sophie described where my Rehab councelor originally planned
> to purchase something that was less expensive but not as practical for
> me. While my email justifying my request for the specific thing I
> needed was not paid particular attention, testimonials on the web
> about the low quality of the product they were going to buy me really
> helped seal my case. Granted, other factors played into it as well
> like since a lot of schools buy these cheaper, less sturdy models the
> ones I didn't want were out of stock and all that was left was what I
> consider the good kind, but the reviews did play a role I think. It
> may be worth a shot, especially if you can speak with someone who has
> done an exam for you from there in the past.
>
> On 4/10/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> Thank you I will contact Bob.
>>
>> I submitted a 15 page document with my appeal. I explained how each of
>> their doctors would try to fit me with colored lenses. I contacted each
>> of
>> them and included the actual emails from them. The eye doctor in Indiana
>> sent them a 4-5 page document on what they do which I included again in
>> my
>> appeal.
>>
>> I will be submitted a request for ZoomText with speech for both the mac
>> and
>> Windows next week. I am a Software Engineering major so on the computer
>> all
>> the time. Before school mac zoom was enough but it does not follow the
>> insertion point just the mouse pointer. I will also be doing an
>> internship
>> this summer and need to have the right technology. The more successful my
>> internships the better chance I have of finding employment upon
>> graduation.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Arielle Silverman <
>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> VR will pay for an out-of-state vendor if you can prove to them that
>>> the vendor is better than what you can get in-state. If you haven't
>>> already, you should write a letter describing why this vendor is
>>> superior, and send it to your counselor and to his supervisor. You
>>> should also contact Bob Kresmer in AZ to see if he can help you with
>>> your appeal. His phone number is:
>>> 520-733-5894
>>> or
>>> krezguy at cox.net
>>> He is the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
>>> and he knows who is at the top in Arizona VR. If you think getting a
>>> prescription from this place will make a difference in your education,
>>> you should pursue it.
>>> As I mentioned in a previous email, I also think that learning the
>>> basics of JAWS, or another screen reader, would benefit you a lot in
>>> your studies and your everyday life. Have you talked with VR at all
>>> about getting screen reading software?
>>> Best of luck,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 4/10/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I'm sorry to say that there isn't much that you can do. For contact
>>> > lenses you'll have to pursue that avenue yourself. Even though a
>>> > rehabilitation agency for the blind is supposed to provide you with
>>> > tools, or resources that you'll be able to do your work successfully
>>> > in
>>> > school or elsewhere, most agencies will only either a, go with what
>>> > they
>>> > frequently do, like for example getting clients jaws for windows even
>>> > if
>>> > they prefer window eyes. Why? Because that agency is used to getting
>>> > JAWS and the like. Or, B, go with a cheap solution. Understandable,
>>> > but
>>> > unacceptable. Also, from my personal experience. Counselors seem to
>>> > like
>>> > newly blind people because they haven?t yet formed educated opinions
>>> > about what's better, for them, in the adaptive technology market.
>>> > Those
>>> > kind of blind people are much easier to serve because they will take
>>> > anything without question and don?t need anything anymore complex.
>>> > Also,
>>> > even though this is going on a tangent, they tend to lean just a bit
>>> > more appreciatively to simple outcomes. What I mean by this is they
>>> > like
>>> > the clients with simple needs that can be resolved once and that's it
>>> > and don't need ongoing service, upgrades, etc. these are just my
>>> > personal opinions and don't reflect the agencies as a whole because
>>> > there's some people who work in the field who are real gems, and they
>>> > understand the client, not just understand their immediate needs and
>>> > treat them with a pacifier until later when the client realizes a
>>> > permanent, yet very expensive solution, or the like. Every person is
>>> > different. As I have said, these are just some of the things that I,
>>> > myself, personally, have noticed and they don't reflect every agency
>>> > or
>>> > every social worker. I?d quietly remind your counselor, not to mention
>>> > her entire staff that this is a facility, a dedicated team, that
>>> > provides vocational rehabilitation. VR accomplishes this by providing
>>> > support and services to promote the acquisition of skills and
>>> > experiential learning that will support the consumer in meeting
>>> > his/her
>>> > independent living and vocational goals as well as the technology to
>>> > achieve and acquire such learning, or accommodations, not technology,
>>> > sorry. I didn't have my coffee yet. Remember, they are there to
>>> > provide,
>>> > you, as a client, specific barrier removal including assistive
>>> > technology or computer training, as well as Braille, use of low-vision
>>> > devises for job related functions, and/or other blindness related
>>> > skill
>>> > training as well as employment, etc., any kind of training or the
>>> > tools/technology to acquire the training or job. Provision of
>>> > rehabilitation counseling, as well as access to services and resources
>>> > to support adjustment to blindness to achieve independence is given:
>>> > This refers to the intellectual, emotional, and social adjustment to
>>> > blindness and visual impairment as well as the provision of
>>> > techniques,
>>> > tools, and equipment which will enable the consumer to achieve
>>> > independent living and travel functioning. You need those lenses to be
>>> > able to do what you need to do and to function independently, use that
>>> > word. Independently. That word will make a lot of people listen. Apart
>>> > from that, I?d say tell their board staff. Provide a logical case with
>>> > fact sheets and all this to present your case saying why you need
>>> > these
>>> > lenses. Make a clear case, not an emotion filled one. That isn't what
>>> > you need and that won?t get you heard at all. present your case,
>>> > first,
>>> > to your counselor, and if she says no again, tell her, in plain
>>> > English,
>>> > no metaphors, no if?s, ands, or buts, tell her that you?re going to go
>>> > up the chain of command because you were denied technology to allow
>>> > you
>>> > to function independently. Do this with her supervisor. Tell her the
>>> > same thing. Tell her word for word. Don't change anything. Don't add
>>> > anything or remove anything. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Yes, if you have
>>> > to, contact the president. I hope that this helps you.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:54:34 -0400
> From: Mika Pyyhkala <pyyhkala at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for Blind VoiceOver Users To Test SideCar
> Ride Sharing App & Report Accessibility Experiences
> Message-ID:
> <CADOFa3iLrS+hKYeYXa8Op6tWJ9nq0=A7KXwRqm35AsSJfq4Y5g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Download the app here:
> http://t.co/Sn1cpcQLyf
> File Accessibility Reports by Email to:
> e-hail at nfbma.org
> Twitter: @pyyhkala @NFBMA @EHaila11y
>
> Greetings,
>
> The NFB of Massachusetts and Mika Pyyhkala are investigating the
> accessibility of the SideCar ride sharing app to blind VoiceOver users
> with Apple iOS devices.
>
> Here are some questions and answers about this project:
>
> Q: What is SideCar Ride?
> A: SideCar Ride is one of several emerging E-Hail apps that allow you
> to request a ride or ground transportation via a mobile phone or
> device. Other E-Hail apps you may have heard of include Uber, Hailo,
> Lift, etc. These apps allow you to track the arrival of your vehicle
> with your smartphone, check the availability of nearby vehicles,
> complete payment electronically, and receive accessible digital email
> receipts. E-Hail apps have many benefits to riders and drivers that
> were previously not possible or available.
>
> Q: What citys is SideCar currently available in?
> A: San Francisco, Seattle, Los Angeles, Austin, Philadelphia, Chicago,
> Boston, Brooklyn, NY and Washington, D.C.
>
> Q: What are some of the more interesting features of the SideCar Ride
> app and service?
> A: SideCar advertises that users can see the number and location of as
> well as the ETA of the nearest SideCar vehicle available to give rides
> in your area based on your GPS position. Once you request a ride, you
> can track the vehicle as it approaches your pickup point. Also,
> SideCar Ride uses an innovative pricing model where you, the
> passenger, specify a "donation," amount to pay the driver. You may
> elect to pay nothing, to pay less than the suggested donation amount,
> to pay the exact suggested donation amount, or to pay more than the
> suggested donation amount. In other words, you as the rider, pick the
> amount you elect to pay for any given ride. The app also allows and
> requires you to rate your driver to close out and complete a ride
> transaction.
>
> Q: How can I find out more details about the SideCar Ride app and service?
> A: The SideCar Ride web site is located at
> http://side.cr
> The company is on Twitter @SideCar and also city specific Twitter
> accounts are available such as @SideCarBOS @SideCarDC etc. You can
> also email questions to
> support at side.cr
> Feel free to ask the company both general and accessibility related
> questions. You may be able to find out more about SideCar by
> searching on the internet or Youtube as well.
>
> Q: Are there any promotions or discounts that I can use to try SideCar
> Ride?
> A: An existing SideCar Ride user can refer you to the service, and
> each party receives a $10 credit. There are also various promotion
> codes that you may be able to find on Twitter or on the internet. If
> you know someone who uses SideCar Ride, they may be able to help you
> find discounts to try the service.
>
> Q: When I email e-hail at nfbma.org what kind of information should I include?
> A: Please include your full name, the city and state you tried
> SideCar, and your experience using the app with VoiceOver. You may,
> for example, describe how the signup process worked with VoiceOver, or
> how the process to request and complete a ride worked with VoiceOver.
> If you get stuck in any part of the process, please report this.
> Please also include a telephone number where we can contact you to get
> further information.
>
> Q: What will happen with the information I submit about SideCar Ride
> accessibility?
> A: Mika Pyyhkala and the NFB of Massachusetts are researching the
> accessibility of SideCar. We will work to address any accessibility
> issues that are found in the app or service. We are looking for both
> your experience in trying the service, and also for people who can
> help with any accessibility issues found in various SideCar citys. We
> will give you indstructions and more information after you file your
> initial accessibility report, and as we evaluate the accessibility of
> SideCar.
>
> Q: Is similar accessibility research being done regarding other E-Hail
> apps like Lift, Uber, Hailo, etc.?
> A: Yes, and if you have a story about one of these apps please feel
> free to send it to e-hail at nfbma.org
> Right now, it is most important that we have blind VoiceOver users
> test and evaluate the accessibility of SideCar. In the coming weeks
> and months, we may send out similar requests regarding other E-Hail
> apps.
>
> Q: If I don't live in a current SideCar city, can I still participate?
> A: Yes, you can still install and register for SideCar. You can use
> the service when you travel to a supported city, and the company is
> actively expanding the citys serviced. You can still provide
> VoiceOver accessibility feedback on the signup process for SideCar,
> and the overall interface of the app.
>
> Best,
> Mika Pyyhkala,
> Board Member
> National Federation of the Blind
> pyyhkala at gmail.com
> Twitter: @pyyhkala
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 22:09:23 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJAZrgDJsTbqsWP7xnJmLxdFRf8NscKvBQCHsPQy9ezaeA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi all,
> Kenneth Jernigan, who was president of the NFB for 18 years and had a
> huge influence on the organization's philosophical approach to
> blindness, wrote a speech titled "The Nature of Independence" which is
> available on the NFB website. I won't post it here since it is quite
> long, but will just summarize what I got out of hearing it. Jernigan
> talked about times when he, as a blind man, would walk with sighted
> guides, such as holding the arm of his secretary while walking with
> her and in conversation. He said that he did this from time to time,
> not because he needed the help, but because it was more convenient for
> both of them. He stated that one can accept assistance from others and
> still remain independent. Specifically, he defined independence as:
> The ability to travel whenever you want, wherever you want, with a
> minimum of inconvenience to yourself and others.
>
> To me, that definition sounds similar to those that some of you are
> espousing. I think before we bash the NFB too much on this point, we
> should bear in mind where Jernigan was coming from. In fact, I think
> most if not all of us in the NFB agree that independence is the
> freedom to choose when, and what kind of help, to get. We can all be a
> little better about not judging others who make different choices than
> what we would make, and some judgmental folks have tainted the NFB's
> reputation in this regard. But I really think we agree more than we
> disagree here.
> I believe that all people can seek help with things and still remain
> independent. But I also think that being blind, by itself, shouldn't
> change our standard of independence. I personally like doing the same
> kinds of things that other 28-year-olds do, so I don't want to be
> called super-blind because I do typical things like living with my
> fiancee and sharing cooking duties with him, or walking independently
> around campus. And I think that whenever we do accept help with
> something, there is always a trade-off where we have to give up
> something. Sometimes we have to pay for help, like paying a taxi
> driver or a restaurant to cook our food. Sometimes it's a time
> sacrifice, like having to wait for a ride or a guide in order to go
> somewhere. Other times the sacrifices are more subtle losses of
> freedom, like if we choose to live somewhere that makes rules about
> whether or not we can have overnight guests. Sometimes the help we get
> is worth the sacrifice, but other times it's not, because the
> inconvenience on ourselves or others is too great. Finally, I believe
> that in order to make knowledgeable decisions about what we really
> need help doing, and what we don't, we should get decent training. If
> someone always has another person do their laundry because they never
> tried doing it themself, they will never know how easy it might be for
> them. If they try it, they might discover that actually it's not worth
> the sacrifice and that they prefer doing it themself, but we never
> know these things until we try them.
> I personally think there are many sighted people, and some blind
> people, who would benefit greatly from a supported living community
> like Friedman Place. Offering these communities could really help make
> a dent in national crises like homelessness, poverty and ccrime. I
> think there are many other populations in this country who need a
> place like Friedman far more than blind people do. And while I don't
> fault those who choose to go to Friedman, I would submit that there
> are sacrifices and trade-offs involved. You get low-cost housing,
> cooked food and companionship, but you lose control over most of your
> spending money, have to sign out to leave the premises and the hot
> date you bring home has to pass a background check. I think these are
> small sacrifices, but I also think that living on one's own, and
> especially getting training in daily living skills and job skills,
> gives us the flexibility to handle all kinds of life situations,
> either on our own or with assistance.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 21:12:37 -0700
> From: Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Voc Rehab request denied
> Message-ID:
> <CAF=_aveZj0NVTrpiVMUTp0YgvAy5x4qPusrkyYC35mP_MYMKzg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> The Indiana eye doctor sent a detailed 4-5 page letter directly to them. I
> included it again in my appeal.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Kaiti Shelton
> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> What also might be beneficial is if you can get someone from the
>> company in Indiana to substantiate your claims. I've run into issues
>> like what Sophie described where my Rehab councelor originally planned
>> to purchase something that was less expensive but not as practical for
>> me. While my email justifying my request for the specific thing I
>> needed was not paid particular attention, testimonials on the web
>> about the low quality of the product they were going to buy me really
>> helped seal my case. Granted, other factors played into it as well
>> like since a lot of schools buy these cheaper, less sturdy models the
>> ones I didn't want were out of stock and all that was left was what I
>> consider the good kind, but the reviews did play a role I think. It
>> may be worth a shot, especially if you can speak with someone who has
>> done an exam for you from there in the past.
>>
>> On 4/10/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> > Thank you I will contact Bob.
>> >
>> > I submitted a 15 page document with my appeal. I explained how each of
>> > their doctors would try to fit me with colored lenses. I contacted each
>> of
>> > them and included the actual emails from them. The eye doctor in
>> > Indiana
>> > sent them a 4-5 page document on what they do which I included again in
>> my
>> > appeal.
>> >
>> > I will be submitted a request for ZoomText with speech for both the mac
>> and
>> > Windows next week. I am a Software Engineering major so on the computer
>> all
>> > the time. Before school mac zoom was enough but it does not follow the
>> > insertion point just the mouse pointer. I will also be doing an
>> internship
>> > this summer and need to have the right technology. The more successful
>> > my
>> > internships the better chance I have of finding employment upon
>> graduation.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Arielle Silverman <
>> > Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >> VR will pay for an out-of-state vendor if you can prove to them that
>> >> the vendor is better than what you can get in-state. If you haven't
>> >> already, you should write a letter describing why this vendor is
>> >> superior, and send it to your counselor and to his supervisor. You
>> >> should also contact Bob Kresmer in AZ to see if he can help you with
>> >> your appeal. His phone number is:
>> >> 520-733-5894
>> >> or
>> >> krezguy at cox.net
>> >> He is the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
>> >> and he knows who is at the top in Arizona VR. If you think getting a
>> >> prescription from this place will make a difference in your education,
>> >> you should pursue it.
>> >> As I mentioned in a previous email, I also think that learning the
>> >> basics of JAWS, or another screen reader, would benefit you a lot in
>> >> your studies and your everyday life. Have you talked with VR at all
>> >> about getting screen reading software?
>> >> Best of luck,
>> >> Arielle
>> >>
>> >> On 4/10/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > I'm sorry to say that there isn't much that you can do. For contact
>> >> > lenses you'll have to pursue that avenue yourself. Even though a
>> >> > rehabilitation agency for the blind is supposed to provide you with
>> >> > tools, or resources that you'll be able to do your work successfully
>> in
>> >> > school or elsewhere, most agencies will only either a, go with what
>> >> > they
>> >> > frequently do, like for example getting clients jaws for windows
>> >> > even
>> >> > if
>> >> > they prefer window eyes. Why? Because that agency is used to getting
>> >> > JAWS and the like. Or, B, go with a cheap solution. Understandable,
>> but
>> >> > unacceptable. Also, from my personal experience. Counselors seem to
>> >> > like
>> >> > newly blind people because they haven?t yet formed educated opinions
>> >> > about what's better, for them, in the adaptive technology market.
>> Those
>> >> > kind of blind people are much easier to serve because they will take
>> >> > anything without question and don?t need anything anymore complex.
>> >> > Also,
>> >> > even though this is going on a tangent, they tend to lean just a bit
>> >> > more appreciatively to simple outcomes. What I mean by this is they
>> >> > like
>> >> > the clients with simple needs that can be resolved once and that's
>> >> > it
>> >> > and don't need ongoing service, upgrades, etc. these are just my
>> >> > personal opinions and don't reflect the agencies as a whole because
>> >> > there's some people who work in the field who are real gems, and
>> >> > they
>> >> > understand the client, not just understand their immediate needs and
>> >> > treat them with a pacifier until later when the client realizes a
>> >> > permanent, yet very expensive solution, or the like. Every person is
>> >> > different. As I have said, these are just some of the things that I,
>> >> > myself, personally, have noticed and they don't reflect every agency
>> or
>> >> > every social worker. I?d quietly remind your counselor, not to
>> >> > mention
>> >> > her entire staff that this is a facility, a dedicated team, that
>> >> > provides vocational rehabilitation. VR accomplishes this by
>> >> > providing
>> >> > support and services to promote the acquisition of skills and
>> >> > experiential learning that will support the consumer in meeting
>> his/her
>> >> > independent living and vocational goals as well as the technology to
>> >> > achieve and acquire such learning, or accommodations, not
>> >> > technology,
>> >> > sorry. I didn't have my coffee yet. Remember, they are there to
>> >> > provide,
>> >> > you, as a client, specific barrier removal including assistive
>> >> > technology or computer training, as well as Braille, use of
>> >> > low-vision
>> >> > devises for job related functions, and/or other blindness related
>> skill
>> >> > training as well as employment, etc., any kind of training or the
>> >> > tools/technology to acquire the training or job. Provision of
>> >> > rehabilitation counseling, as well as access to services and
>> >> > resources
>> >> > to support adjustment to blindness to achieve independence is given:
>> >> > This refers to the intellectual, emotional, and social adjustment to
>> >> > blindness and visual impairment as well as the provision of
>> techniques,
>> >> > tools, and equipment which will enable the consumer to achieve
>> >> > independent living and travel functioning. You need those lenses to
>> >> > be
>> >> > able to do what you need to do and to function independently, use
>> >> > that
>> >> > word. Independently. That word will make a lot of people listen.
>> >> > Apart
>> >> > from that, I?d say tell their board staff. Provide a logical case
>> >> > with
>> >> > fact sheets and all this to present your case saying why you need
>> these
>> >> > lenses. Make a clear case, not an emotion filled one. That isn't
>> >> > what
>> >> > you need and that won?t get you heard at all. present your case,
>> first,
>> >> > to your counselor, and if she says no again, tell her, in plain
>> >> > English,
>> >> > no metaphors, no if?s, ands, or buts, tell her that you?re going to
>> >> > go
>> >> > up the chain of command because you were denied technology to allow
>> you
>> >> > to function independently. Do this with her supervisor. Tell her the
>> >> > same thing. Tell her word for word. Don't change anything. Don't add
>> >> > anything or remove anything. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Yes, if you
>> >> > have
>> >> > to, contact the president. I hope that this helps you.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> > for
>> >> > nabs-l:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 00:19:32 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID: <000c01ce35a2$9a9bd100$cfd37300$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I'll say this. When I travel with someone, I hold their elbow due to our
> differences in walking speed, and the cues that I use. It's easier, and
> less aggravating. We can tale a little easier.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
> Silverman
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:09 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
>
> Hi all,
> Kenneth Jernigan, who was president of the NFB for 18 years and had a huge
> influence on the organization's philosophical approach to blindness, wrote
> a
> speech titled "The Nature of Independence" which is available on the NFB
> website. I won't post it here since it is quite long, but will just
> summarize what I got out of hearing it. Jernigan talked about times when
> he,
> as a blind man, would walk with sighted guides, such as holding the arm of
> his secretary while walking with her and in conversation. He said that he
> did this from time to time, not because he needed the help, but because it
> was more convenient for both of them. He stated that one can accept
> assistance from others and still remain independent. Specifically, he
> defined independence as:
> The ability to travel whenever you want, wherever you want, with a minimum
> of inconvenience to yourself and others.
>
> To me, that definition sounds similar to those that some of you are
> espousing. I think before we bash the NFB too much on this point, we should
> bear in mind where Jernigan was coming from. In fact, I think most if not
> all of us in the NFB agree that independence is the freedom to choose when,
> and what kind of help, to get. We can all be a little better about not
> judging others who make different choices than what we would make, and some
> judgmental folks have tainted the NFB's reputation in this regard. But I
> really think we agree more than we disagree here.
> I believe that all people can seek help with things and still remain
> independent. But I also think that being blind, by itself, shouldn't change
> our standard of independence. I personally like doing the same kinds of
> things that other 28-year-olds do, so I don't want to be called super-blind
> because I do typical things like living with my fiancee and sharing cooking
> duties with him, or walking independently around campus. And I think that
> whenever we do accept help with something, there is always a trade-off
> where
> we have to give up something. Sometimes we have to pay for help, like
> paying
> a taxi driver or a restaurant to cook our food. Sometimes it's a time
> sacrifice, like having to wait for a ride or a guide in order to go
> somewhere. Other times the sacrifices are more subtle losses of freedom,
> like if we choose to live somewhere that makes rules about whether or not
> we
> can have overnight guests. Sometimes the help we get is worth the
> sacrifice,
> but other times it's not, because the inconvenience on ourselves or others
> is too great. Finally, I believe that in order to make knowledgeable
> decisions about what we really need help doing, and what we don't, we
> should
> get decent training. If someone always has another person do their laundry
> because they never tried doing it themself, they will never know how easy
> it
> might be for them. If they try it, they might discover that actually it's
> not worth the sacrifice and that they prefer doing it themself, but we
> never
> know these things until we try them.
> I personally think there are many sighted people, and some blind people,
> who
> would benefit greatly from a supported living community like Friedman
> Place.
> Offering these communities could really help make a dent in national crises
> like homelessness, poverty and ccrime. I think there are many other
> populations in this country who need a place like Friedman far more than
> blind people do. And while I don't fault those who choose to go to
> Friedman,
> I would submit that there are sacrifices and trade-offs involved. You get
> low-cost housing, cooked food and companionship, but you lose control over
> most of your spending money, have to sign out to leave the premises and the
> hot date you bring home has to pass a background check. I think these are
> small sacrifices, but I also think that living on one's own, and especially
> getting training in daily living skills and job skills, gives us the
> flexibility to handle all kinds of life situations, either on our own or
> with assistance.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:24:41 -0500
> From: Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID: <51663B09.5060500 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> That was awesome! Thank you for sharing that, and you?re right about
> everything. We?re well aware of the sacrifices but we choose what we
> choose, with reason. By the way, does anyone know where to get audio
> described movies other than blind mice? I'm surprised no one is selling
> them as digital downloads I also want to know were can I find a detailed
> podcast in the new victor reader stream? Thank you everyone
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 00:30:19 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID: <000e01ce35a4$1bf9afa0$53ed0ee0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Is blind mice not good?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert William
> Kingett
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:25 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
>
> That was awesome! Thank you for sharing that, and you're right about
> everything. We're well aware of the sacrifices but we choose what we
> choose, with reason. By the way, does anyone know where to get audio
> described movies other than blind mice? I'm surprised no one is selling
> them as digital downloads I also want to know were can I find a detailed
> podcast in the new victor reader stream? Thank you everyone
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:39:13 -0500
> From: Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID: <51663E71.70808 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I just grumble because I don't have a sendspace max account and can't
> download things using the sendspace wizard so I have to do it using the
> website, and then some. I've gotten some malware downloading using links
> from their website but when I downloaded them using the wizard
> everything was fine and dandy.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 00:47:30 -0400
> From: Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID:
> <CAC7+D=xe0u_dKxHJq_06XjPNjxCPDCxrvReZFAZ=79emN5V3cA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Since you brought up the Nature of Independence, I would like to get
> some perspective on something that I honestly found to be quite
> offensive about the wording of that particular speech.
> When Kenneth Jernigan made this speech, he was addressing several
> letters from students who were attending the Louisiana Center. when he
> spoke of true independence, he implied strongly that although he was
> free to make the choices he made, which empowered him and made him
> independent, the students were incapable of making such decisions for
> themselves while they were in training. he basically said that
> students pass through phases as they learn blindness skills. The first
> is timidity and overcautiousness, to the point where the student
> doesn't trust themselves or their judgments; the second is
> aggressiveness, recklessness, and arrogance, where they defiantly
> refuse all vestiges of assistance to "prove" their independence, and,
> hopefully, the third is a balance between the two. Is this a fair
> summation? I believe it is.
> If so, I have a real problem with the notion that he is so sure that
> every student is alike, that every person who comes into training is
> hopeless, then completely changes into their alter-ego. First of all,
> for those of us who are congenitally blind, we have had time to adjust
> to our blindness. While some people may have unhealthy attitudes about
> it, the truth is, if you've been blind all your life, you can't
> exactly deny that. I feel that being condescending towards one's state
> of mind is not the way to win anyone over. I think that most people
> are rational enough to know when it's appropriate for them to ask for
> sighted guide, with some gentle guidance and prodding, of course. For
> a newly blind individual, this changes somewhat, but the truth is that
> everyone is different, and painting all students out to be, for lack
> of a better phrase, rebellious fools, isn't doing the NFB's image any
> favors. Students are people, too. Just because they're students
> doesn't make them any less human, at least, it shouldn't. And all
> humans have their own unique strengths and weaknesses. Some may very
> well be as Jernigan described. Others can think through problems and
> situations logically as they arise. Still others may be overcome by
> emotion in unfamiliar situations, but once they realize they can do
> something a few times, their confidence may grow, but not to the point
> where their egoes inflate exponentially.
> I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all of this. I hope someone gives me
> a swift kick if I am. But if I'm not...if I truly read what I thought
> I did, there will always be a wall between me and the NFB. I mean,
> what if a newly blind individual is 45 years old and coming in for
> training? Do people really think that such a person will react in such
> a juvenile fashion?
>
> On 4/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Kenneth Jernigan, who was president of the NFB for 18 years and had a
>> huge influence on the organization's philosophical approach to
>> blindness, wrote a speech titled "The Nature of Independence" which is
>> available on the NFB website. I won't post it here since it is quite
>> long, but will just summarize what I got out of hearing it. Jernigan
>> talked about times when he, as a blind man, would walk with sighted
>> guides, such as holding the arm of his secretary while walking with
>> her and in conversation. He said that he did this from time to time,
>> not because he needed the help, but because it was more convenient for
>> both of them. He stated that one can accept assistance from others and
>> still remain independent. Specifically, he defined independence as:
>> The ability to travel whenever you want, wherever you want, with a
>> minimum of inconvenience to yourself and others.
>>
>> To me, that definition sounds similar to those that some of you are
>> espousing. I think before we bash the NFB too much on this point, we
>> should bear in mind where Jernigan was coming from. In fact, I think
>> most if not all of us in the NFB agree that independence is the
>> freedom to choose when, and what kind of help, to get. We can all be a
>> little better about not judging others who make different choices than
>> what we would make, and some judgmental folks have tainted the NFB's
>> reputation in this regard. But I really think we agree more than we
>> disagree here.
>> I believe that all people can seek help with things and still remain
>> independent. But I also think that being blind, by itself, shouldn't
>> change our standard of independence. I personally like doing the same
>> kinds of things that other 28-year-olds do, so I don't want to be
>> called super-blind because I do typical things like living with my
>> fiancee and sharing cooking duties with him, or walking independently
>> around campus. And I think that whenever we do accept help with
>> something, there is always a trade-off where we have to give up
>> something. Sometimes we have to pay for help, like paying a taxi
>> driver or a restaurant to cook our food. Sometimes it's a time
>> sacrifice, like having to wait for a ride or a guide in order to go
>> somewhere. Other times the sacrifices are more subtle losses of
>> freedom, like if we choose to live somewhere that makes rules about
>> whether or not we can have overnight guests. Sometimes the help we get
>> is worth the sacrifice, but other times it's not, because the
>> inconvenience on ourselves or others is too great. Finally, I believe
>> that in order to make knowledgeable decisions about what we really
>> need help doing, and what we don't, we should get decent training. If
>> someone always has another person do their laundry because they never
>> tried doing it themself, they will never know how easy it might be for
>> them. If they try it, they might discover that actually it's not worth
>> the sacrifice and that they prefer doing it themself, but we never
>> know these things until we try them.
>> I personally think there are many sighted people, and some blind
>> people, who would benefit greatly from a supported living community
>> like Friedman Place. Offering these communities could really help make
>> a dent in national crises like homelessness, poverty and ccrime. I
>> think there are many other populations in this country who need a
>> place like Friedman far more than blind people do. And while I don't
>> fault those who choose to go to Friedman, I would submit that there
>> are sacrifices and trade-offs involved. You get low-cost housing,
>> cooked food and companionship, but you lose control over most of your
>> spending money, have to sign out to leave the premises and the hot
>> date you bring home has to pass a background check. I think these are
>> small sacrifices, but I also think that living on one's own, and
>> especially getting training in daily living skills and job skills,
>> gives us the flexibility to handle all kinds of life situations,
>> either on our own or with assistance.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 00:49:53 -0400
> From: Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID:
> <CAC7+D=yqf8KkfGvWcVzKq4-jOwQJVGsNDTURsr5KPAZm=hKfUA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Actually, they're pro accounts now. That's a minor detail, really, but
> the pro accounts are more expensive, even if they do offer unlimited
> downloads as opposed to the former 8gb you could have with a max
> account daily.
>
> On 4/11/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I just grumble because I don't have a sendspace max account and can't
>> download things using the sendspace wizard so I have to do it using the
>> website, and then some. I've gotten some malware downloading using links
>> from their website but when I downloaded them using the wizard
>> everything was fine and dandy.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 00:52:24 -0400
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID: <001001ce35a7$31f7b150$95e713f0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I haven't listened to the speech, but apparently,
> I probably should.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree
> Oudinot
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:47 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
>
> Since you brought up the Nature of Independence, I would like to get
> some perspective on something that I honestly found to be quite
> offensive about the wording of that particular speech.
> When Kenneth Jernigan made this speech, he was addressing several
> letters from students who were attending the Louisiana Center. when he
> spoke of true independence, he implied strongly that although he was
> free to make the choices he made, which empowered him and made him
> independent, the students were incapable of making such decisions for
> themselves while they were in training. he basically said that
> students pass through phases as they learn blindness skills. The first
> is timidity and overcautiousness, to the point where the student
> doesn't trust themselves or their judgments; the second is
> aggressiveness, recklessness, and arrogance, where they defiantly
> refuse all vestiges of assistance to "prove" their independence, and,
> hopefully, the third is a balance between the two. Is this a fair
> summation? I believe it is.
> If so, I have a real problem with the notion that he is so sure that
> every student is alike, that every person who comes into training is
> hopeless, then completely changes into their alter-ego. First of all,
> for those of us who are congenitally blind, we have had time to adjust
> to our blindness. While some people may have unhealthy attitudes about
> it, the truth is, if you've been blind all your life, you can't
> exactly deny that. I feel that being condescending towards one's state
> of mind is not the way to win anyone over. I think that most people
> are rational enough to know when it's appropriate for them to ask for
> sighted guide, with some gentle guidance and prodding, of course. For
> a newly blind individual, this changes somewhat, but the truth is that
> everyone is different, and painting all students out to be, for lack
> of a better phrase, rebellious fools, isn't doing the NFB's image any
> favors. Students are people, too. Just because they're students
> doesn't make them any less human, at least, it shouldn't. And all
> humans have their own unique strengths and weaknesses. Some may very
> well be as Jernigan described. Others can think through problems and
> situations logically as they arise. Still others may be overcome by
> emotion in unfamiliar situations, but once they realize they can do
> something a few times, their confidence may grow, but not to the point
> where their egoes inflate exponentially.
> I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all of this. I hope someone gives me
> a swift kick if I am. But if I'm not...if I truly read what I thought
> I did, there will always be a wall between me and the NFB. I mean,
> what if a newly blind individual is 45 years old and coming in for
> training? Do people really think that such a person will react in such
> a juvenile fashion?
>
> On 4/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Kenneth Jernigan, who was president of the NFB for 18 years and had a
>> huge influence on the organization's philosophical approach to
>> blindness, wrote a speech titled "The Nature of Independence" which is
>> available on the NFB website. I won't post it here since it is quite
>> long, but will just summarize what I got out of hearing it. Jernigan
>> talked about times when he, as a blind man, would walk with sighted
>> guides, such as holding the arm of his secretary while walking with
>> her and in conversation. He said that he did this from time to time,
>> not because he needed the help, but because it was more convenient for
>> both of them. He stated that one can accept assistance from others and
>> still remain independent. Specifically, he defined independence as:
>> The ability to travel whenever you want, wherever you want, with a
>> minimum of inconvenience to yourself and others.
>>
>> To me, that definition sounds similar to those that some of you are
>> espousing. I think before we bash the NFB too much on this point, we
>> should bear in mind where Jernigan was coming from. In fact, I think
>> most if not all of us in the NFB agree that independence is the
>> freedom to choose when, and what kind of help, to get. We can all be a
>> little better about not judging others who make different choices than
>> what we would make, and some judgmental folks have tainted the NFB's
>> reputation in this regard. But I really think we agree more than we
>> disagree here.
>> I believe that all people can seek help with things and still remain
>> independent. But I also think that being blind, by itself, shouldn't
>> change our standard of independence. I personally like doing the same
>> kinds of things that other 28-year-olds do, so I don't want to be
>> called super-blind because I do typical things like living with my
>> fiancee and sharing cooking duties with him, or walking independently
>> around campus. And I think that whenever we do accept help with
>> something, there is always a trade-off where we have to give up
>> something. Sometimes we have to pay for help, like paying a taxi
>> driver or a restaurant to cook our food. Sometimes it's a time
>> sacrifice, like having to wait for a ride or a guide in order to go
>> somewhere. Other times the sacrifices are more subtle losses of
>> freedom, like if we choose to live somewhere that makes rules about
>> whether or not we can have overnight guests. Sometimes the help we get
>> is worth the sacrifice, but other times it's not, because the
>> inconvenience on ourselves or others is too great. Finally, I believe
>> that in order to make knowledgeable decisions about what we really
>> need help doing, and what we don't, we should get decent training. If
>> someone always has another person do their laundry because they never
>> tried doing it themself, they will never know how easy it might be for
>> them. If they try it, they might discover that actually it's not worth
>> the sacrifice and that they prefer doing it themself, but we never
>> know these things until we try them.
>> I personally think there are many sighted people, and some blind
>> people, who would benefit greatly from a supported living community
>> like Friedman Place. Offering these communities could really help make
>> a dent in national crises like homelessness, poverty and ccrime. I
>> think there are many other populations in this country who need a
>> place like Friedman far more than blind people do. And while I don't
>> fault those who choose to go to Friedman, I would submit that there
>> are sacrifices and trade-offs involved. You get low-cost housing,
>> cooked food and companionship, but you lose control over most of your
>> spending money, have to sign out to leave the premises and the hot
>> date you bring home has to pass a background check. I think these are
>> small sacrifices, but I also think that living on one's own, and
>> especially getting training in daily living skills and job skills,
>> gives us the flexibility to handle all kinds of life situations,
>> either on our own or with assistance.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co
> m
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:05:02 -0400
> From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID:
> <CAFja7FYqhcX5N5j2NhSuwrw36aDGahPVoUGo9faa9OzoS-MEzw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Desiree,
>
> I think what he was saying was more from a psychological perspective.
> Arielle and anyone else studying psych more than I am can correct me
> if I'm wrong, but I took his phases as more of a general statement.
> You are right that it is different for everyone, but I also think the
> timid, over-independent, and balanced phases manifest in different
> ways for different people, and some might not have them in this order
> or may not experience all of them. I know a lot of people,
> congenitally blind or newly blind, get nervous about crossing streets
> or question their judgement when they're first learning things. I'm
> not quite sure if this is blindness-specific though, as I and other
> sighted and blind people I know, most people in general I think, can
> be timid the first time they do things too like starting college,
> moving to a new housing situation, or for our sighted friends learning
> things like how to drive a several ton metal machine. I also don't
> necessarily think the aggressive phase is really blindness-specific
> either, as teenagers are notorious for doing the same thing blind or
> sighted. I do, however, believe in the balanced phase. Although I
> remember being a little timid while I was still learning skills, I
> attribute it to me learning them more than my blindness playing the
> main role. I also went through a cocky phase a few years later when I
> totally refused sighted guide and help from others while I was going
> somewhere. But now I feel like I have the right amount of caution and
> confidence in my skills to be as independent as I want to be, make
> appropriate choices about when to use and not use sighted guide, etc.
> I don't necessarily think Kenneth Jernigan was slamming the students
> or putting himself on a pedistal in comparison to their incompetence,
> I took it more as just an analysis of psychological states. It sounds
> a little more pinpointed towards blindness than I really think it is,
> but that was what I got out of it, more of an analysis of frames of
> mind about blindness that effect independence than a slam against the
> students.
>
> On 4/11/13, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since you brought up the Nature of Independence, I would like to get
>> some perspective on something that I honestly found to be quite
>> offensive about the wording of that particular speech.
>> When Kenneth Jernigan made this speech, he was addressing several
>> letters from students who were attending the Louisiana Center. when he
>> spoke of true independence, he implied strongly that although he was
>> free to make the choices he made, which empowered him and made him
>> independent, the students were incapable of making such decisions for
>> themselves while they were in training. he basically said that
>> students pass through phases as they learn blindness skills. The first
>> is timidity and overcautiousness, to the point where the student
>> doesn't trust themselves or their judgments; the second is
>> aggressiveness, recklessness, and arrogance, where they defiantly
>> refuse all vestiges of assistance to "prove" their independence, and,
>> hopefully, the third is a balance between the two. Is this a fair
>> summation? I believe it is.
>> If so, I have a real problem with the notion that he is so sure that
>> every student is alike, that every person who comes into training is
>> hopeless, then completely changes into their alter-ego. First of all,
>> for those of us who are congenitally blind, we have had time to adjust
>> to our blindness. While some people may have unhealthy attitudes about
>> it, the truth is, if you've been blind all your life, you can't
>> exactly deny that. I feel that being condescending towards one's state
>> of mind is not the way to win anyone over. I think that most people
>> are rational enough to know when it's appropriate for them to ask for
>> sighted guide, with some gentle guidance and prodding, of course. For
>> a newly blind individual, this changes somewhat, but the truth is that
>> everyone is different, and painting all students out to be, for lack
>> of a better phrase, rebellious fools, isn't doing the NFB's image any
>> favors. Students are people, too. Just because they're students
>> doesn't make them any less human, at least, it shouldn't. And all
>> humans have their own unique strengths and weaknesses. Some may very
>> well be as Jernigan described. Others can think through problems and
>> situations logically as they arise. Still others may be overcome by
>> emotion in unfamiliar situations, but once they realize they can do
>> something a few times, their confidence may grow, but not to the point
>> where their egoes inflate exponentially.
>> I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all of this. I hope someone gives me
>> a swift kick if I am. But if I'm not...if I truly read what I thought
>> I did, there will always be a wall between me and the NFB. I mean,
>> what if a newly blind individual is 45 years old and coming in for
>> training? Do people really think that such a person will react in such
>> a juvenile fashion?
>>
>> On 4/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> Kenneth Jernigan, who was president of the NFB for 18 years and had a
>>> huge influence on the organization's philosophical approach to
>>> blindness, wrote a speech titled "The Nature of Independence" which is
>>> available on the NFB website. I won't post it here since it is quite
>>> long, but will just summarize what I got out of hearing it. Jernigan
>>> talked about times when he, as a blind man, would walk with sighted
>>> guides, such as holding the arm of his secretary while walking with
>>> her and in conversation. He said that he did this from time to time,
>>> not because he needed the help, but because it was more convenient for
>>> both of them. He stated that one can accept assistance from others and
>>> still remain independent. Specifically, he defined independence as:
>>> The ability to travel whenever you want, wherever you want, with a
>>> minimum of inconvenience to yourself and others.
>>>
>>> To me, that definition sounds similar to those that some of you are
>>> espousing. I think before we bash the NFB too much on this point, we
>>> should bear in mind where Jernigan was coming from. In fact, I think
>>> most if not all of us in the NFB agree that independence is the
>>> freedom to choose when, and what kind of help, to get. We can all be a
>>> little better about not judging others who make different choices than
>>> what we would make, and some judgmental folks have tainted the NFB's
>>> reputation in this regard. But I really think we agree more than we
>>> disagree here.
>>> I believe that all people can seek help with things and still remain
>>> independent. But I also think that being blind, by itself, shouldn't
>>> change our standard of independence. I personally like doing the same
>>> kinds of things that other 28-year-olds do, so I don't want to be
>>> called super-blind because I do typical things like living with my
>>> fiancee and sharing cooking duties with him, or walking independently
>>> around campus. And I think that whenever we do accept help with
>>> something, there is always a trade-off where we have to give up
>>> something. Sometimes we have to pay for help, like paying a taxi
>>> driver or a restaurant to cook our food. Sometimes it's a time
>>> sacrifice, like having to wait for a ride or a guide in order to go
>>> somewhere. Other times the sacrifices are more subtle losses of
>>> freedom, like if we choose to live somewhere that makes rules about
>>> whether or not we can have overnight guests. Sometimes the help we get
>>> is worth the sacrifice, but other times it's not, because the
>>> inconvenience on ourselves or others is too great. Finally, I believe
>>> that in order to make knowledgeable decisions about what we really
>>> need help doing, and what we don't, we should get decent training. If
>>> someone always has another person do their laundry because they never
>>> tried doing it themself, they will never know how easy it might be for
>>> them. If they try it, they might discover that actually it's not worth
>>> the sacrifice and that they prefer doing it themself, but we never
>>> know these things until we try them.
>>> I personally think there are many sighted people, and some blind
>>> people, who would benefit greatly from a supported living community
>>> like Friedman Place. Offering these communities could really help make
>>> a dent in national crises like homelessness, poverty and ccrime. I
>>> think there are many other populations in this country who need a
>>> place like Friedman far more than blind people do. And while I don't
>>> fault those who choose to go to Friedman, I would submit that there
>>> are sacrifices and trade-offs involved. You get low-cost housing,
>>> cooked food and companionship, but you lose control over most of your
>>> spending money, have to sign out to leave the premises and the hot
>>> date you bring home has to pass a background check. I think these are
>>> small sacrifices, but I also think that living on one's own, and
>>> especially getting training in daily living skills and job skills,
>>> gives us the flexibility to handle all kinds of life situations,
>>> either on our own or with assistance.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 00:07:15 -0500
> From: "Sam Nelson" <samnelson1 at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
> Message-ID: <000001ce3672$6fbc0dd0$4f342970$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi Arielle,
> Thanks for sharing all this! It's a very balanced perspective. My
> therapist taught me this word today, dialectic. It means two things that
> at
> first seem opposite can exist at the same time. I think this illustrates
> that.
> And I agree with Robert. Considering the trade-offs involved is part of
> making the decision to come here at least it was for me. One sacrifice for
> me for example, is that coming here I had to leave my cat behind. I
> honestly
> don't know if I'll ever see him again. If I had stayed in MA one option I
> could have chosen was a shared living program where I was matched with a
> companion, sort of a one on one Friedman type thing. But the matching
> process might have taken a year or more and I absolutely could not have
> waited that long at my parents and the sacrifice for different friends to
> take me would have been too much on them and I also wouldn't want to put
> that on them.
> In shared living I would have been allowed to have pets. Here
> unfortunately
> we aren't. However, sometimes it takes being creative. I have found a
> couple
> of visiting pet therapy programs that take cats to places like Friedman and
> am researching them in order to present a case to activities about having
> them come here maybe a couple times a month or something. Especially if
> it's
> free they'll probably do it. I could also go to an animal shelter to
> volunteer though I worry about being possibly scratched by random cats that
> might have diseases or something. I would think the pet therapy cats would
> be healthy but you never know in a shelter.
> Though they're rare I could one day get a service cat if I wanted to and
> make the case that it helps with mental health issues I have.
> I will say the spending money is a big thing for some people. But at least
> for my personal situation even having less spending money is worth it. With
> where I live providing food/ cleaning, and what we pay them covering
> everything else, you know electric/ rent/ all that, there isn't really
> much
> I feel I need to buy. You learn to save, and sometimes unexpected and
> amazing things happened.
> Doing therapy type things is very important for me to have some kind of
> emotional balance and outlits. In college I was used to being able to pay a
> reasonable price for this and was fine with it.
> I happened to write to a dance therapist who's website I really resonated
> with. I was just writing admiring her website. I said in passing that I'd
> probably work with her if I had the money. Because she's amazing she
> offered
> me at first, three sessions for free. Because we connected so well, and
> because she's so goodhearted she's extended this to seeing me once a
> month.
> In adition I found a place I can go to once a week with an intern for $10/
> session which works for me. She's very good. So I feel things have a way of
> working out in unexpected ways.
> I do do my own laundry myself by the way, that I was taught to do and it
> stuck. Other things I was sort of taught to do and they just didn't take
> hold, like cooking. It was just too anxiety producing I think for both me
> and my family equally, you know the stove and the oven and all that. So I'm
> good with the sacrifice of not being able to choose exactly what I want to
> eat every day. At college my roomates and I really didn't clean the room
> much. I really like having housekeeping services because at least I know
> once a week everything will be nice and clean. And the housekeeper has this
> cute accent and says "I love you honey," every time she sees me, and that
> brightens my day!
> I should say, if I haven't already, that within the community in different
> ways the CNAS do encourage independence and doing things for ourselves.
> This
> one CAN always bugs me about picking up my room. I know of a resident who
> when he first got here had the CNAS take him everywhere around the
> building.
> Eventually he's gotten to the point where he can go some places himself and
> that's a big step for him. I know it probably doesn't seem like as much
> training as the training centers or other places, but I wanted to point it
> is emphasized in some way.
> I totally agree with you about offering more supportive living
> communities,
> for all types of populations being a good thing. I personally wouldn't say
> that other populations need it more than the blind, but I can see from your
> perspective how you would think of it like that. I do think more places
> need
> to be out there, particularly for people with mental health concerns. At
> the moment in Chicago, many of these people are in psychiatric nursing
> homes, that for the most part quite honestly sound like pretty terrible
> places. And yet nothing gets done about this. One of my future projects is
> discussing this with NAMI or some other related organization. So hopefully
> one day we'll get there!
> Again thanks for your thoughts.
> Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
> Silverman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:09 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
>
> Hi all,
> Kenneth Jernigan, who was president of the NFB for 18 years and had a huge
> influence on the organization's philosophical approach to blindness, wrote
> a
> speech titled "The Nature of Independence" which is available on the NFB
> website. I won't post it here since it is quite long, but will just
> summarize what I got out of hearing it. Jernigan talked about times when
> he,
> as a blind man, would walk with sighted guides, such as holding the arm of
> his secretary while walking with her and in conversation. He said that he
> did this from time to time, not because he needed the help, but because it
> was more convenient for both of them. He stated that one can accept
> assistance from others and still remain independent. Specifically, he
> defined independence as:
> The ability to travel whenever you want, wherever you want, with a minimum
> of inconvenience to yourself and others.
>
> To me, that definition sounds similar to those that some of you are
> espousing. I think before we bash the NFB too much on this point, we should
> bear in mind where Jernigan was coming from. In fact, I think most if not
> all of us in the NFB agree that independence is the freedom to choose when,
> and what kind of help, to get. We can all be a little better about not
> judging others who make different choices than what we would make, and some
> judgmental folks have tainted the NFB's reputation in this regard. But I
> really think we agree more than we disagree here.
> I believe that all people can seek help with things and still remain
> independent. But I also think that being blind, by itself, shouldn't change
> our standard of independence. I personally like doing the same kinds of
> things that other 28-year-olds do, so I don't want to be called super-blind
> because I do typical things like living with my fiancee and sharing cooking
> duties with him, or walking independently around campus. And I think that
> whenever we do accept help with something, there is always a trade-off
> where
> we have to give up something. Sometimes we have to pay for help, like
> paying
> a taxi driver or a restaurant to cook our food. Sometimes it's a time
> sacrifice, like having to wait for a ride or a guide in order to go
> somewhere. Other times the sacrifices are more subtle losses of freedom,
> like if we choose to live somewhere that makes rules about whether or not
> we
> can have overnight guests. Sometimes the help we get is worth the
> sacrifice,
> but other times it's not, because the inconvenience on ourselves or others
> is too great. Finally, I believe that in order to make knowledgeable
> decisions about what we really need help doing, and what we don't, we
> should
> get decent training. If someone always has another person do their laundry
> because they never tried doing it themself, they will never know how easy
> it
> might be for them. If they try it, they might discover that actually it's
> not worth the sacrifice and that they prefer doing it themself, but we
> never
> know these things until we try them.
> I personally think there are many sighted people, and some blind people,
> who
> would benefit greatly from a supported living community like Friedman
> Place.
> Offering these communities could really help make a dent in national crises
> like homelessness, poverty and ccrime. I think there are many other
> populations in this country who need a place like Friedman far more than
> blind people do. And while I don't fault those who choose to go to
> Friedman,
> I would submit that there are sacrifices and trade-offs involved. You get
> low-cost housing, cooked food and companionship, but you lose control over
> most of your spending money, have to sign out to leave the premises and the
> hot date you bring home has to pass a background check. I think these are
> small sacrifices, but I also think that living on one's own, and especially
> getting training in daily living skills and job skills, gives us the
> flexibility to handle all kinds of life situations, either on our own or
> with assistance.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
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> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 78, Issue 24
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