[nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
Mauricio Almeida
mauriciopmalmeida at gmail.com
Sat Apr 13 16:47:17 UTC 2013
agreed,
People tend on thinking that blind people need to spend money in a certain way, act, or not, according to standards, for whatever reasons they think they have to justify such, say, under applicable thoughts.
blind people are like everyone else. I for instance don't lead a consulting group like I do not to spend my money as i desire simply because people think i shouldn't.
I also regard independence as, doing what you need to, in the way you feel like it.
A lot of people in the federation over rate independence as a way of bolstering self acceptance, but that's a conduct i personally don't agree with or endorse.
Mauricio
On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:40 PM, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> Personally if I bust my ass to have a career in which I can afford
> something and that is what I chose to buy, I see nothing wrong with that.
> That is like saying people who can afford nice vacations shouldn't do it or
> buy a nice house. You cannot put a price tag on freedom being limited to
> where a bus goes or when family and friend's can drive you is not true
> freedom.
>
> And who are these friend's and family? I don't have people who are sitting
> around waiting to drive me to appointments. My fiance will drive me to
> appointment because eh feel it is stupid for me to waste 4 hours to take
> the bus but the is a cost and that is he has to use vacation time form work
> to do it.
>
> I want to go where I want to go and when I want to go.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:01 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>wrote:
>
>> Evening, Josh,
>>
>> Yes, I tend to regard a question of blind people devoting such a
>> substantial portion of their riches to such a lofty and arguably realistic
>> venture as a friggen car, as a completely self serving way to bleed one's
>> coffers unnecessarily, with a healthy trepidation... As if such an
>> Over-the-top stroking of one's ego actually matters within a big picture?
>> After all, people are suffering, even dying in our world quite
>> unnecessarily. war and oppression of our brothers and sisters continues
>> being initiated, and propagated, as the unfeeling wheels of Capitalism, and
>> policies designed to oppress us grind on, unabated.
>> And people's soul focus seems to be a Reinventing of the wheel?
>> Have a good day!
>> Carly
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Google is supportive of having blind drivers, they have come to
>>> events and
>>>>>> shown blind folks the car. I've sat in quite a few, although I've
>>> never
>>>>>> been in one while it has been driven. I'd think it will be exactly
>>> like
>>>>>> being a passenger of a sighted driver, but without the crazy
>>> breakings
>>>>>> every few minutes and the heart attacks the sighted drivers
>>> constantly face.
>>>>>> Frankly, I would trust the Google Car way more than I would trust my
>>> mom
>>>>>> as the driver. Computers are much more reliable than humans in my
>>> opinion.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 6:03 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As it stands, he's going to need a sighted driver in the car who can
>>>>>> take the wheel when the need arises. But Google will have to fix this
>>>>>> if they're hoping for a blind person to drive it independently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 12, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Chris, Kirt and everyone else on this thread,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You guys are right in saying that, one need not pass judgement
>>> without
>>>>>>> fully experiencing this machine in Wonderland. it's true we don't
>>> have all
>>>>>>> the information. And, I think it's right when you say the thing
>>> doesn't
>>>>>>> murge onto the freeway. What happens to the driving blink if he
>>> dares to
>>>>>>> usese se the interstate? usese the freeway? 4/12/2013, christopher
>>> nusbaum
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree with you. Before we make any judgments on the Google car,
>>> we
>>>>>>>> must remember that it is still in the planning stages and that all
>>>>>>>> Google cars that have been tested so far are no more than
>>> prototypes.
>>>>>>>> This is evidenced by the need for the Google car to be taken over
>>> by
>>>>>>>> human driver when it pulls off the highway, as the story which
>>> someone
>>>>>>>> reposted here mentioned.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Carly, we must also take into account that some blind people don't
>>>>>>>> live in areas where public transportation is easily available,
>>> such as
>>>>>>>> Boston or New York City. I, for instance, live in a semi rural
>>> town in
>>>>>>>> Maryland, where our only options For public transportation are
>>>>>>>> paratransit and a cab service. As you can imagine, neither of these
>>>>>>>> options are preferable Because of the cost if not the reliability.
>>> For
>>>>>>>> this reason, I would love the independence that the Google car
>>> might
>>>>>>>> give me in this area.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 12, 2013, at 2:41 AM, Kirt Manwaring <
>>> kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Patrick,
>>>>>>>>> If it's time they want, I'm willing to give it. I hope you're
>>>>>>>>> right; we'll have to wait and see. I guess my only point was
>>> that
>>>>>>>>> this thing isn't right around the corner; while it's realisticly
>>>>>>>>> viable now, it's still probably a long ways off before we'll be
>>> able
>>>>>>>>> to drive. Where the google car is now is probably comparable to
>>> where
>>>>>>>>> the internet was thirty or so years ago; people could see the
>>>>>>>>> possibilities, it was realistic and people "in the know" were
>>> probably
>>>>>>>>> aware it was coming...but it still had a long way to go before
>>> it was
>>>>>>>>> viable to the general public.
>>>>>>>>> And, Patrick, you're probably right that airplane pilots don't
>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to manually control the plane very much between takeoff and
>>> landing.
>>>>>>>>> Still, I can almost guarantee you they are paying very close
>>> attention
>>>>>>>>> in the event something goes wrong.
>>>>>>>>> Carley,
>>>>>>>>> I don't really see anything inherently wrong or undesirable
>>> about
>>>>>>>>> driving. In most places it is probably more efficient than
>>> public
>>>>>>>>> transport. Of course there are exceptions; New York city comes
>>> to
>>>>>>>>> mind, for instance. Still, living where I do now, I would
>>> totally
>>>>>>>>> jump on the chance to drive if I could and it were realistic and
>>> safe,
>>>>>>>>> at least most of the time. That being said, it's far enough
>>> away that
>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely not going to stop riding my busses and trains any
>>> time
>>>>>>>>> soon.
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Count me in. I'm driving. No wait; not driving, drivin.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.****org<
>>> nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org <nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org>>]
>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Carly
>>>>>>>>>> Mihalakis
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list;
>>> National
>>>>>>>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi, List,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, for my whole life I have watched sighted
>>> folk seem
>>>>>>>>>> to agonize over so much turmoil, and hostility towrd their
>>> fellow
>>>>>>>>>> man, as they drive. I have always been grateful not having that
>>> crap
>>>>>>>>>> to contend with. Besides, I am not confident about chances of
>>> ever
>>>>>>>>>> affording such a car. And, I don't care about the principles
>>> personal
>>>>>>>>>> cars supposedly afford. Where can they take you that a bus,
>>> train, or
>>>>>>>>>> friend/driver cannot?
>>>>>>>>>> Ultimately, i believe traveling from point A to point B,
>>> oughta be
>>>>>>>>>> a communal affair. Leave the driving to ol' Sighty!
>>>>>>>>>> So no, on the car!
>>>>>>>>>> Car At 06:23 PM 4/11/2013, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I can't wait to see these google cars come out. It will be a
>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>> milestone in the independence and assimulation of blind people
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted society. My only worry is that the sighties won't
>>> trust us
>>>>>>>>>>> to drive, even (maybe especially) if the car was
>>>>>>>>>>> computer-controlled. Even my boyfriend, who is blind, says he
>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> never trust a self-propelled car. Our trouble will be
>>> convincing
>>>>>>>>>>> them that it's safe for us and for others on the road.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:02:08 -0700
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>> The reason why the Google Car is Superior is because it is
>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream, it has a major company behind it and there is
>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> backing both cars.
>>>>>>>>>>> The big debate will be if people want to drive under their own
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> control or
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> computers. It is not unlike reading Braille or using a screen
>>> reader
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>>>>> a book. Braille is all fine and dandy, but a screen reader is
>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> important. The difference is the Google car is going
>>> mainstream and
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> have mainstreem support. It would be the same if Jaws went
>>>>>>>> mainstreem >>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> companies like Google started making units that used Jaws and
>>> no >>>
>>>>>>>> screen.
>>>>>>>>>>> Braille would be useful, but not particularly necessary for
>>> most >>>
>>>>>>>> common
>>>>>>>>>>> tasks.
>>>>>>>>>>> If one used a car on city roads and highways, there would be
>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> no need to manually drive. If one wanted to map a long
>>> driveway or
>>>>>>>>>>> country
>>>>>>>>>>> road, one would need to manually drive it till the road could
>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>> entered into the database.
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sophie Trist
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 1:37 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon, I totally 100% agree!!! However, didn't the NFB
>>> invent a
>>>>>>>>>>> self-propelled car of sorts? If so, it might be hard to
>>> convince
>>>>>>>>>>> them to back the google car unless we can prove theirs is
>>>>>>>>>>> superior.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:05:01 -0700
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes in a way, the logistics of liability still need to be taken
>>>>>>>>>>> into account
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure and licensing probably still needs to be worked out,
>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> if the
>>>>>>>>>>> government officials are pushed, it will happen very soon.
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the NFB should push for these quite hard. Perhaps they
>>>>>>>>>>> could even
>>>>>>>>>>> ask that a car come to the convention, I think Google would
>>> take
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> challenge.
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:13 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So does this mean these vehicles will soon be on the market for
>>>>>>>>>>> individuals to purchase in Nevada? Sounds like a very
>>>>>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/11/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Google's self-driven cars will soon be appearing on Nevada
>>> roads
>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>> the state's Department of Motor Vehicles approved on Monday the
>>>>>>>>>>> nation's
>>>>>>>>>>> first autonomous vehicle license.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The move came after officials rode along on drives on highways,
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Carson City neighborhoods and along the famous Las Vegas Strip,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Nevada DMV said in a statement.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Nevada legislature last year authorized self-driven cars
>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> state's roads, the first such law in the United States. That
>>> law
>>>>>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>>>>>> into effect on March 1, 2012.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Google's self-driven cars rely on video cameras, radar sensors,
>>>>>>>>>>> lasers,
>>>>>>>>>>> and a database of information collected from manually driven
>>>>>>>>>>> cars to
>>>>>>>>>>> help navigate, according to the company.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The DMV licensed a Toyota Prius that Google modified with its
>>>>>>>>>>> experimental driver-less technology, developed by Stanford
>>>>>>>>>>> professor and
>>>>>>>>>>> Google Vice President Sebastian Thrun.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Google's self-driving cars have crossed the Golden Gate Bridge
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> driven along the picturesque Pacific Coast Highway, according
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> company.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Autonomous vehicles are the "car of the future," Nevada DMV
>>>>>>>>>>> director
>>>>>>>>>>> Bruce Breslow said in a statement. The state also has plans to
>>>>>>>>>>> eventually license autonomous vehicles owned by the members of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> public, the DMV said.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Legislation to regulate autonomous cars is being considered in
>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> states, including Google's home state of California.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "The vast majority of vehicle accidents are due to human error.
>>>>>>>>>>> Through
>>>>>>>>>>> the use of computers, sensors and other systems, an autonomous
>>>>>>>>>>> vehicle
>>>>>>>>>>> is capable of analyzing the driving environment more quickly
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> operating the vehicle more safely," California state Senator
>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>> Padilla said in March when he introduced that state's
>>> autonomous
>>>>>>>>>>> car
>>>>>>>>>>> legislation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Other car companies are also seeking self-driven car licenses
>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> Nevada,
>>>>>>>>>>> the DMV said.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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