[nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets

Arielle Silverman arielle71 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 16 23:13:21 UTC 2013


It would be interesting if vocational rehab started paying for Google
Cars just like they currently pay for expensive Braille Notes and
such. In a way that would be good, since having a car could increase
employment prospects, but it could also deepen the dependence many of
us feel on government agencies. "Pick a vocational goal that I think
you should have, and wait a few months for me to drag my feet on it,
or you won't get an autonomous car!" might be the stated or implied
directive of a VR counselor. We are already finding ourselves bending
over backwards to satisfy VR's bureaucratic requirements and counselor
idiosyncrasies in order to have technology or training funded.
Arielle

On 4/16/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I find myself agreeing with several points.
>
> First, by my posts about the costs I was trying to put it into
> perspective that for most of us, the car being so expensive might not
> be worth it until the price comes down simply because most working
> families have 2 cars because multiple people need to be in different
> places at the same time.  I agree with Kirt that even after this thing
> is out we'll probably have to wait a fairly long time till the price
> is reasonable.  Second, we're not sure yet just how autonymous this
> car is.  Even though it might drive itself most of the way, I could
> very well see it needing instruction to take detours if needed.  Say,
> for instance, that you've chartered your course for your car remotely
> and you just want it to drive itself to come pick you up somewhere.
> Somewhere along the way it gets low on gas and doesn't have anyone or
> anything to tell it to pause en route to find the nearest gas station.
>  And even then, who would be there to fill up the tank and tell the
> car to resume the route?  Just hypotheticals worth some consideration,
> since this whole thread is pretty hypothetical.  Also, even if a car
> dropped one spouse off and went to get the other it would be a lot of
> driving around.  Another hypothetical; lets say a blind couple lives
> in a house, with one office five miles to the north and another five
> miles to the south.  I realize these are very small measurements, but
> just for the sake of thinking about this we'll go with it.  One person
> needs to be to work by eight, so the car drives ten miles to the
> office and back.  Then it leaves again and drives five more miles to
> drop the other person off.  When the person who got to work by eight
> needs to leave, the car would drive another ten miles to get them and
> another five to get home, then another ten miles to pick up the other
> person and bring them home.  That's 40 miles in a day.  Now, say the
> couple each has their own cars, which each drive just ten miles a day
> going back and forth to work.  That's half the driving, half the gas,
> and although there are 2 cars on  the road instead of one, less
> emissions that are not healthy for the environment.  What I was saying
> was that in order for this to really work for most families the cars
> would have to be affordable enough so people could have two at once,
> otherwise the car would incurr other expenses on top of the already
> heightened cost and it wouldn't be worth it.
> I do agree with William too that this is not necessarily the top
> priority we have to deal with, but I don't necessarily see it as a
> negative thing.  I agree with Chris that it will probably help some
> people get jobs... I've mentioned that I'm in a line of work in which
> the ability for me to drive would be marketable.  I think both these
> statements are right, but Arielle's point of widening the gap between
> the employed and unemployed was really concerning to me too.  I could
> in some ways see how this might be a deterrent to employers, as in the
> following:  Employer: "Thank you for coming in today, I'll call you
> once the other interviews are finished.  One more question, can you
> drive one of those Google cars?  We could really use someone in our
> area across town."  Interviewee: "I can't afford one yet.  I'm hoping
> to save up for one though."  In this case, the employer's expectation
> of blind people being able to have the Google cars might weigh in the
> interviewee's favor, because he might have interviewed him with the
> intention of having him drive the google car to complete the tasks of
> the job.  I think there are a lot of complicated positives and
> negatives to consider.
>
> On 4/16/13, Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
>> Good morning Chris and everyone,
>>
>>     Absolutely! It will also open up jobs currently closed to us. Should
>> you
>>
>> become a cab or a limousine driver who uses the technology the NFB
>> developed
>>
>> when we visit your community we'll be sure to request you as our limo
>> driver
>>
>> or will be sure to call you directly so we'll get you as our personal cab
>> driver. We all ready do this here in San Antonio. There's a cab driver we
>> use regularly. We have his cell phone number and call him directly
>> whenever
>>
>> we need transportation.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "christopher nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>
>>
>> But do you think our ability to drive may increase our employment rate?
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 16, 2013, at 1:40 AM, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just my own two sense:
>>> I do not care, if the automated car offers us hot coffee! That or a car
>>> with extra clothes will not be parked with my name on it.
>>> I am not out to shoot-down someones dream.  I am all for innovation;
>>> however, we need to fix our problems within our society a bit more.  If
>>> blind people overall had more stability with a greater respect as whole
>>> individuals, employed at a 80% rate, then I would advocate us as
>>> drivers.
>>> I could just here the advertizement:
>>> Were you in a accident, maybe with a blind person while driving, call
>>> (800)lawyers.  Sorry for being cynical, I think time and resources need
>>> to
>>>
>>> be properly prioritized.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 5:08 PM, "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joshua, the NFB car requires intricate vests and lots of other complex
>>>> equipment. The google car offers us the option of driving an autonomous
>>>> vehicle without all the excess gear. Blind people have enough baggage
>>>> as
>>>>
>>>> is. We don't need special driving clothes.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:49:18 +0000
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> It was on the runway at Daytona, two years ago.
>>>> The car should be out by 2016.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sophie Trist
>>>> [sweetpeareader at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 6:44 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> Joshua, I guess I can't talk much about this since I never
>>>> actually saw the NFB car in action, but from what I've heard,
>>>> that autonomous vehicle was a bit disappointing. Besides, I've
>>>> only heard about it one time, at convention a few years ago.
>>>> Since then, nothing has been heard of the NFB car--it's just
>>>> disappeared. Right now, the google car is looking a lot more
>>>> promising. I support the NFB to my core, but if there's another
>>>> product that serves better than an NFB product (like a Revolution
>>>> cane, for example) I won't hesitate to get it. Also, I have one
>>>> question about the google cars. Do they run on gas or
>>>> electricity?
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:25:35 +0000
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> Wow, Peter!
>>>> Like minds huh?
>>>> I just posted this same link on here a few minutes ago!
>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Peter
>>>> Donahue [pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 5:23 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> Good afternoon one more time everyone,
>>>>
>>>>  Better yet visit http://www.blinddriverchallenge.org
>>>>
>>>>  There's lots of information about our efforts to develop this
>>>> technology
>>>> along with videos showing a blind person driving the car on the
>>>> track at
>>>> Daytona Beach. The technology and the possibilities have all
>>>> ready been
>>>> demonstrated. I also understand that several blind individuals
>>>> have driven
>>>> the car on the streets of Baltimore with success.We all need to
>>>> unite and
>>>> work with whomever will partner with us be it Google or someone
>>>> else to
>>>> insure that any self-driving vehicle that is developed is
>>>> controllable by a
>>>> blind person and that our right to operate such vehicles is
>>>> protected. We
>>>> don't need the very people who stand to benefit from the freedom
>>>> and
>>>> empowerment such a vehicle could give us undermining such a noble
>>>> initiative.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:36 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amen, Patrick!
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>> Public Relations Committee
>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Patrick Molloy
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 3:27 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry Ashley, but I completely and wholeheartedly disagree
>>>> with you.
>>>> When NTSB executives are saying that autonomous cars are the way
>>>> to go,
>>>> don't you think they deserve some credence? I honestly lost faith
>>>> in the NFB
>>>> car. Sure it was "made for blind people," but you barely ever saw
>>>> the thing!
>>>> If you're going to make a car for the blind, don't hide it away
>>>> from the
>>>> public and then give no explanation when it essentially
>>>> disappears. I'm not
>>>> saying that the Google car would be perfect. I'm not fooling
>>>> myself with
>>>> that idea. But, I think that the technology is really impressive
>>>> and, with
>>>> some modifications, it will be great for blind people. But hey!
>>>> If you want
>>>> to always wait around for a driver, or a bus, or paratransit,
>>>> more power to
>>>> you. It just seems like this all runs counter to the philosophy
>>>> that many
>>>> people within the NFB preach daily. As for your arguments as to
>>>> why blind
>>>> people shouldn't drive, I think if you read the articles about
>>>> the potential
>>>> of autonomous cars, you'll find most if not all of your fears
>>>> more or less
>>>> assuaged. Just because something SEEMS difficult is no reason for
>>>> us blind
>>>> people to avoid it like the plague. That would be ridiculous! If
>>>> I decide
>>>> not to get this car, it would only be after I'd tried it out and
>>>> found it
>>>> not to my liking. Since the NFB car is more or less dead, I feel
>>>> that we as
>>>> blind people have a responsibility to get behind the Google car
>>>> in one way
>>>> or another.
>>>> Isn't that what the NFB always says? That they're there for blind
>>>> people
>>>> when we need something? Well, we need to get around and we're
>>>> tired of
>>>> waiting like kids for our parents to pick us up from soccer
>>>> practice! If
>>>> we're going to be independent, successful individuals, then we
>>>> should have
>>>> the right to get around just like our sighted colleagues.
>>>> Separate is not
>>>> equal in this case. You may never drive this thing, and you may
>>>> think it
>>>> ridiculous, but I highly encourage people like yourself and Carly
>>>> to at
>>>> least consider the point of view of those of us who want to drive
>>>> like our
>>>> brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers. You may think us
>>>> self-serving,
>>>> but doesn't that make sighted people self-serving? I mean, they
>>>> can take a
>>>> bus too! The issue here is choice. We shouldn't HAVE to take a
>>>> bus if we
>>>> don't want to wait 2 hours. Now, if it's a nice day and you've
>>>> got time to
>>>> kill, hey! Spend 5 hours going to the doctor! But we should have
>>>> the same
>>>> freedom that all sighted people have. With that freedom will come
>>>> the
>>>> realization that blind people can do the same things as sighted
>>>> people.
>>>> Patrick
>>>>
>>>> On 4/14/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I haven't read all this thread much. But from what I read, it
>>>> seems
>>>> like you
>>>>
>>>> all believe the car would provide more transit options and you'd
>>>> buy
>>>> one if
>>>>
>>>> given a choice.
>>>>
>>>> I know the problems in the bus system; I've seen them and ridden
>>>> paratransit
>>>>
>>>> and felt its impact of unreliability and lateness.
>>>> That said, I think other methods of travel are more efficient
>>>> and safe.
>>>> Things like cabs, car pools, getting rides with friends when you
>>>> want
>>>> to hang out, and hiring a driver would be better.
>>>>
>>>> I do not support blind people driving because we cannot see to
>>>> override the
>>>>
>>>> car.
>>>> I have to agree with the individual that said that having a car
>>>> is
>>>> self serving. We are putting other lives at risk.
>>>> We face many obstacles on the rode like other cars wipping in
>>>> front of
>>>> us when its not their turn; cars inching along not going the
>>>> speed
>>>> limit and you got to move around them, waiting for pedestrians
>>>> to
>>>> walk, rode rage, and
>>>>
>>>> drunk drivers.
>>>> Without vision, we cannot! intervene the computerized car to
>>>> override
>>>> it when obstacles arise.
>>>> I cannot tell you how many times my parents slammed on the
>>>> brakes due
>>>> to some driver wipping out in front of them, drivers who
>>>> unexpectedly
>>>> turn without turning on their turn signal like their supposed
>>>> to,
>>>> pedestrians who
>>>>
>>>> are still walking across the street when the orange don't walk
>>>> signal
>>>> is on
>>>>
>>>> thus making cars wait, having to swerve around bicyclists, and
>>>> distracted drivers on cell phones.
>>>> All these obstacles create hazards which a human driver with
>>>> eyes
>>>> needs to see and make a quick judgement and use reflexes to act
>>>> upon
>>>> unexpected hazards.
>>>>
>>>> So, yeah, when you all can afford a new google car, go right
>>>> ahead and
>>>> you never know who might be hurt if you even get a license. I
>>>> just
>>>> don't want to
>>>>
>>>> be on the road with you.
>>>>
>>>> I think the nfb car sounded safer and it was built for blind
>>>> people,
>>>> but we
>>>>
>>>> abandoned that project, probably cause of money.
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Kaiti Shelton
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:08 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> I don't see it as self-serving either... in my experience with
>>>> buses I
>>>> have to agree with Sophie here.  Plus, some parts of town that I
>>>> need
>>>> to go either aren't served by buses, or take a really long time
>>>> to get
>>>> to which sometimes involves going in the opposite way of the
>>>> destination for a while and then circling back because of
>>>> Dayton's bus
>>>> system.  (It's organized by buses going north-south and
>>>> east-west, but
>>>> sometimes when you're at a stop the time of the bus won't tell
>>>> you if
>>>> the bus is going north or south, or east or west so you have to
>>>> roll
>>>> with it.  I'd much rather just get into a car and drive than
>>>> boomerang
>>>> around the city just to get to one place, and then do it again
>>>> returning to school.  And because of this, and the fact that it
>>>> the
>>>> bus system isn't exactly equivalent to a car, I don't consider
>>>> it
>>>> self-serving either.  I have no problem in supporting it and
>>>> other
>>>> programs of public transit for people who can't drive a car,
>>>> which
>>>> more often are people who are low income, have a suspended
>>>> license, or
>>>> who are inner-city, or elderly than blind, but if I and other
>>>> blind
>>>> people can afford a car and want one I don't see anything
>>>> self-serving
>>>> in that, it's just doing what is most efficient.  I actually
>>>> think not
>>>> taking advantage of this opportunity on the basis that the less
>>>> than
>>>> efficient public transit systems work fine and that other people
>>>> can
>>>> use the money or whatever that would go into buying this car
>>>> would be
>>>> like saying you'd pass up going to college even though you could
>>>> because other people can be served by your tuition money, and
>>>> the high
>>>> school diploma would serve you just fine.  It's more efficient,
>>>> so why
>>>> not do it?
>>>>
>>>> Sophie, I too see it more as an investment in independence.  :)
>>>>
>>>> On 4/14/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Im buying this damn car the first chance I get. I'd rather be
>>>> self
>>>> serving and frivolous and drive to some place within 20 minutes
>>>> instead of sitting on the bus for three hours, or more,
>>>> depending on
>>>> if the driver didn't call my stop and I'd be riding extra long.
>>>> Here
>>>> in chicagothat isn't a problem but I used to live in Tallahassee
>>>> FL
>>>> where there was no automated system to tell you where you were.
>>>> So
>>>> yes, I'd much rather be self serving and save up. Besides, as I
>>>> have
>>>> said before in a previous message, this technology is driving
>>>> along
>>>> the streets of Nevada. I'm so excited that I'm even grinning and
>>>> daydreaming about driving along side of a bus, and happy that
>>>> I'm
>>>> frivolous enough to pay for a self serving device that will
>>>> allowfor
>>>> me to get to the office quicker, or to an interview on time,
>>>> thus
>>>> allowing me to have greater chances to pay my taxes so you other
>>>> non
>>>> self serving blind people can take the bus. I think it's a neat
>>>> little circle of irony, don't you think? LOL!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
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>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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