[nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets

Wed Apr 17 01:09:54 UTC 2013

Hi Arielle!
You make a great point here!
I told you that Rehab would get me a Braille Note, a couple of months ago!
Now, they're wanting me to go all the way to Little Rock, AR, (2 hours away from here,) for another evaluation, before they even consider it!
Why won't 2009's evaluation suffice?
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle Silverman [arielle71 at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:13 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets

It would be interesting if vocational rehab started paying for Google
Cars just like they currently pay for expensive Braille Notes and
such. In a way that would be good, since having a car could increase
employment prospects, but it could also deepen the dependence many of
us feel on government agencies. "Pick a vocational goal that I think
you should have, and wait a few months for me to drag my feet on it,
or you won't get an autonomous car!" might be the stated or implied
directive of a VR counselor. We are already finding ourselves bending
over backwards to satisfy VR's bureaucratic requirements and counselor
idiosyncrasies in order to have technology or training funded.
Arielle

On 4/16/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I find myself agreeing with several points.
>
> First, by my posts about the costs I was trying to put it into
> perspective that for most of us, the car being so expensive might not
> be worth it until the price comes down simply because most working
> families have 2 cars because multiple people need to be in different
> places at the same time.  I agree with Kirt that even after this thing
> is out we'll probably have to wait a fairly long time till the price
> is reasonable.  Second, we're not sure yet just how autonymous this
> car is.  Even though it might drive itself most of the way, I could
> very well see it needing instruction to take detours if needed.  Say,
> for instance, that you've chartered your course for your car remotely
> and you just want it to drive itself to come pick you up somewhere.
> Somewhere along the way it gets low on gas and doesn't have anyone or
> anything to tell it to pause en route to find the nearest gas station.
>  And even then, who would be there to fill up the tank and tell the
> car to resume the route?  Just hypotheticals worth some consideration,
> since this whole thread is pretty hypothetical.  Also, even if a car
> dropped one spouse off and went to get the other it would be a lot of
> driving around.  Another hypothetical; lets say a blind couple lives
> in a house, with one office five miles to the north and another five
> miles to the south.  I realize these are very small measurements, but
> just for the sake of thinking about this we'll go with it.  One person
> needs to be to work by eight, so the car drives ten miles to the
> office and back.  Then it leaves again and drives five more miles to
> drop the other person off.  When the person who got to work by eight
> needs to leave, the car would drive another ten miles to get them and
> another five to get home, then another ten miles to pick up the other
> person and bring them home.  That's 40 miles in a day.  Now, say the
> couple each has their own cars, which each drive just ten miles a day
> going back and forth to work.  That's half the driving, half the gas,
> and although there are 2 cars on  the road instead of one, less
> emissions that are not healthy for the environment.  What I was saying
> was that in order for this to really work for most families the cars
> would have to be affordable enough so people could have two at once,
> otherwise the car would incurr other expenses on top of the already
> heightened cost and it wouldn't be worth it.
> I do agree with William too that this is not necessarily the top
> priority we have to deal with, but I don't necessarily see it as a
> negative thing.  I agree with Chris that it will probably help some
> people get jobs... I've mentioned that I'm in a line of work in which
> the ability for me to drive would be marketable.  I think both these
> statements are right, but Arielle's point of widening the gap between
> the employed and unemployed was really concerning to me too.  I could
> in some ways see how this might be a deterrent to employers, as in the
> following:  Employer: "Thank you for coming in today, I'll call you
> once the other interviews are finished.  One more question, can you
> drive one of those Google cars?  We could really use someone in our
> area across town."  Interviewee: "I can't afford one yet.  I'm hoping
> to save up for one though."  In this case, the employer's expectation
> of blind people being able to have the Google cars might weigh in the
> interviewee's favor, because he might have interviewed him with the
> intention of having him drive the google car to complete the tasks of
> the job.  I think there are a lot of complicated positives and
> negatives to consider.
>
> On 4/16/13, Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
>> Good morning Chris and everyone,
>>
>>     Absolutely! It will also open up jobs currently closed to us. Should
>> you
>>
>> become a cab or a limousine driver who uses the technology the NFB
>> developed
>>
>> when we visit your community we'll be sure to request you as our limo
>> driver
>>
>> or will be sure to call you directly so we'll get you as our personal cab
>> driver. We all ready do this here in San Antonio. There's a cab driver we
>> use regularly. We have his cell phone number and call him directly
>> whenever
>>
>> we need transportation.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "christopher nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>
>>
>> But do you think our ability to drive may increase our employment rate?
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 16, 2013, at 1:40 AM, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just my own two sense:
>>> I do not care, if the automated car offers us hot coffee! That or a car
>>> with extra clothes will not be parked with my name on it.
>>> I am not out to shoot-down someones dream.  I am all for innovation;
>>> however, we need to fix our problems within our society a bit more.  If
>>> blind people overall had more stability with a greater respect as whole
>>> individuals, employed at a 80% rate, then I would advocate us as
>>> drivers.
>>> I could just here the advertizement:
>>> Were you in a accident, maybe with a blind person while driving, call
>>> (800)lawyers.  Sorry for being cynical, I think time and resources need
>>> to
>>>
>>> be properly prioritized.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 5:08 PM, "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joshua, the NFB car requires intricate vests and lots of other complex
>>>> equipment. The google car offers us the option of driving an autonomous
>>>> vehicle without all the excess gear. Blind people have enough baggage
>>>> as
>>>>
>>>> is. We don't need special driving clothes.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:49:18 +0000
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> It was on the runway at Daytona, two years ago.
>>>> The car should be out by 2016.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sophie Trist
>>>> [sweetpeareader at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 6:44 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> Joshua, I guess I can't talk much about this since I never
>>>> actually saw the NFB car in action, but from what I've heard,
>>>> that autonomous vehicle was a bit disappointing. Besides, I've
>>>> only heard about it one time, at convention a few years ago.
>>>> Since then, nothing has been heard of the NFB car--it's just
>>>> disappeared. Right now, the google car is looking a lot more
>>>> promising. I support the NFB to my core, but if there's another
>>>> product that serves better than an NFB product (like a Revolution
>>>> cane, for example) I won't hesitate to get it. Also, I have one
>>>> question about the google cars. Do they run on gas or
>>>> electricity?
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:25:35 +0000
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> Wow, Peter!
>>>> Like minds huh?
>>>> I just posted this same link on here a few minutes ago!
>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Peter
>>>> Donahue [pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 5:23 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> Good afternoon one more time everyone,
>>>>
>>>>  Better yet visit http://www.blinddriverchallenge.org
>>>>
>>>>  There's lots of information about our efforts to develop this
>>>> technology
>>>> along with videos showing a blind person driving the car on the
>>>> track at
>>>> Daytona Beach. The technology and the possibilities have all
>>>> ready been
>>>> demonstrated. I also understand that several blind individuals
>>>> have driven
>>>> the car on the streets of Baltimore with success.We all need to
>>>> unite and
>>>> work with whomever will partner with us be it Google or someone
>>>> else to
>>>> insure that any self-driving vehicle that is developed is
>>>> controllable by a
>>>> blind person and that our right to operate such vehicles is
>>>> protected. We
>>>> don't need the very people who stand to benefit from the freedom
>>>> and
>>>> empowerment such a vehicle could give us undermining such a noble
>>>> initiative.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:36 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amen, Patrick!
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>> Public Relations Committee
>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Patrick Molloy
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 3:27 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry Ashley, but I completely and wholeheartedly disagree
>>>> with you.
>>>> When NTSB executives are saying that autonomous cars are the way
>>>> to go,
>>>> don't you think they deserve some credence? I honestly lost faith
>>>> in the NFB
>>>> car. Sure it was "made for blind people," but you barely ever saw
>>>> the thing!
>>>> If you're going to make a car for the blind, don't hide it away
>>>> from the
>>>> public and then give no explanation when it essentially
>>>> disappears. I'm not
>>>> saying that the Google car would be perfect. I'm not fooling
>>>> myself with
>>>> that idea. But, I think that the technology is really impressive
>>>> and, with
>>>> some modifications, it will be great for blind people. But hey!
>>>> If you want
>>>> to always wait around for a driver, or a bus, or paratransit,
>>>> more power to
>>>> you. It just seems like this all runs counter to the philosophy
>>>> that many
>>>> people within the NFB preach daily. As for your arguments as to
>>>> why blind
>>>> people shouldn't drive, I think if you read the articles about
>>>> the potential
>>>> of autonomous cars, you'll find most if not all of your fears
>>>> more or less
>>>> assuaged. Just because something SEEMS difficult is no reason for
>>>> us blind
>>>> people to avoid it like the plague. That would be ridiculous! If
>>>> I decide
>>>> not to get this car, it would only be after I'd tried it out and
>>>> found it
>>>> not to my liking. Since the NFB car is more or less dead, I feel
>>>> that we as
>>>> blind people have a responsibility to get behind the Google car
>>>> in one way
>>>> or another.
>>>> Isn't that what the NFB always says? That they're there for blind
>>>> people
>>>> when we need something? Well, we need to get around and we're
>>>> tired of
>>>> waiting like kids for our parents to pick us up from soccer
>>>> practice! If
>>>> we're going to be independent, successful individuals, then we
>>>> should have
>>>> the right to get around just like our sighted colleagues.
>>>> Separate is not
>>>> equal in this case. You may never drive this thing, and you may
>>>> think it
>>>> ridiculous, but I highly encourage people like yourself and Carly
>>>> to at
>>>> least consider the point of view of those of us who want to drive
>>>> like our
>>>> brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers. You may think us
>>>> self-serving,
>>>> but doesn't that make sighted people self-serving? I mean, they
>>>> can take a
>>>> bus too! The issue here is choice. We shouldn't HAVE to take a
>>>> bus if we
>>>> don't want to wait 2 hours. Now, if it's a nice day and you've
>>>> got time to
>>>> kill, hey! Spend 5 hours going to the doctor! But we should have
>>>> the same
>>>> freedom that all sighted people have. With that freedom will come
>>>> the
>>>> realization that blind people can do the same things as sighted
>>>> people.
>>>> Patrick
>>>>
>>>> On 4/14/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I haven't read all this thread much. But from what I read, it
>>>> seems
>>>> like you
>>>>
>>>> all believe the car would provide more transit options and you'd
>>>> buy
>>>> one if
>>>>
>>>> given a choice.
>>>>
>>>> I know the problems in the bus system; I've seen them and ridden
>>>> paratransit
>>>>
>>>> and felt its impact of unreliability and lateness.
>>>> That said, I think other methods of travel are more efficient
>>>> and safe.
>>>> Things like cabs, car pools, getting rides with friends when you
>>>> want
>>>> to hang out, and hiring a driver would be better.
>>>>
>>>> I do not support blind people driving because we cannot see to
>>>> override the
>>>>
>>>> car.
>>>> I have to agree with the individual that said that having a car
>>>> is
>>>> self serving. We are putting other lives at risk.
>>>> We face many obstacles on the rode like other cars wipping in
>>>> front of
>>>> us when its not their turn; cars inching along not going the
>>>> speed
>>>> limit and you got to move around them, waiting for pedestrians
>>>> to
>>>> walk, rode rage, and
>>>>
>>>> drunk drivers.
>>>> Without vision, we cannot! intervene the computerized car to
>>>> override
>>>> it when obstacles arise.
>>>> I cannot tell you how many times my parents slammed on the
>>>> brakes due
>>>> to some driver wipping out in front of them, drivers who
>>>> unexpectedly
>>>> turn without turning on their turn signal like their supposed
>>>> to,
>>>> pedestrians who
>>>>
>>>> are still walking across the street when the orange don't walk
>>>> signal
>>>> is on
>>>>
>>>> thus making cars wait, having to swerve around bicyclists, and
>>>> distracted drivers on cell phones.
>>>> All these obstacles create hazards which a human driver with
>>>> eyes
>>>> needs to see and make a quick judgement and use reflexes to act
>>>> upon
>>>> unexpected hazards.
>>>>
>>>> So, yeah, when you all can afford a new google car, go right
>>>> ahead and
>>>> you never know who might be hurt if you even get a license. I
>>>> just
>>>> don't want to
>>>>
>>>> be on the road with you.
>>>>
>>>> I think the nfb car sounded safer and it was built for blind
>>>> people,
>>>> but we
>>>>
>>>> abandoned that project, probably cause of money.
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Kaiti Shelton
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:08 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>> I don't see it as self-serving either... in my experience with
>>>> buses I
>>>> have to agree with Sophie here.  Plus, some parts of town that I
>>>> need
>>>> to go either aren't served by buses, or take a really long time
>>>> to get
>>>> to which sometimes involves going in the opposite way of the
>>>> destination for a while and then circling back because of
>>>> Dayton's bus
>>>> system.  (It's organized by buses going north-south and
>>>> east-west, but
>>>> sometimes when you're at a stop the time of the bus won't tell
>>>> you if
>>>> the bus is going north or south, or east or west so you have to
>>>> roll
>>>> with it.  I'd much rather just get into a car and drive than
>>>> boomerang
>>>> around the city just to get to one place, and then do it again
>>>> returning to school.  And because of this, and the fact that it
>>>> the
>>>> bus system isn't exactly equivalent to a car, I don't consider
>>>> it
>>>> self-serving either.  I have no problem in supporting it and
>>>> other
>>>> programs of public transit for people who can't drive a car,
>>>> which
>>>> more often are people who are low income, have a suspended
>>>> license, or
>>>> who are inner-city, or elderly than blind, but if I and other
>>>> blind
>>>> people can afford a car and want one I don't see anything
>>>> self-serving
>>>> in that, it's just doing what is most efficient.  I actually
>>>> think not
>>>> taking advantage of this opportunity on the basis that the less
>>>> than
>>>> efficient public transit systems work fine and that other people
>>>> can
>>>> use the money or whatever that would go into buying this car
>>>> would be
>>>> like saying you'd pass up going to college even though you could
>>>> because other people can be served by your tuition money, and
>>>> the high
>>>> school diploma would serve you just fine.  It's more efficient,
>>>> so why
>>>> not do it?
>>>>
>>>> Sophie, I too see it more as an investment in independence.  :)
>>>>
>>>> On 4/14/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Im buying this damn car the first chance I get. I'd rather be
>>>> self
>>>> serving and frivolous and drive to some place within 20 minutes
>>>> instead of sitting on the bus for three hours, or more,
>>>> depending on
>>>> if the driver didn't call my stop and I'd be riding extra long.
>>>> Here
>>>> in chicagothat isn't a problem but I used to live in Tallahassee
>>>> FL
>>>> where there was no automated system to tell you where you were.
>>>> So
>>>> yes, I'd much rather be self serving and save up. Besides, as I
>>>> have
>>>> said before in a previous message, this technology is driving
>>>> along
>>>> the streets of Nevada. I'm so excited that I'm even grinning and
>>>> daydreaming about driving along side of a bus, and happy that
>>>> I'm
>>>> frivolous enough to pay for a self serving device that will
>>>> allowfor
>>>> me to get to the office quicker, or to an interview on time,
>>>> thus
>>>> allowing me to have greater chances to pay my taxes so you other
>>>> non
>>>> self serving blind people can take the bus. I think it's a neat
>>>> little circle of irony, don't you think? LOL!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>>
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>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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