[nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets

Wed Apr 17 04:04:46 UTC 2013

But if you can't do your job without the equipment then you would no long
have a job and can't save up to buy the equipment

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Kaiti Shelton
<crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Justin,
>
> Did you look that up?  I'm just curious to know if that's a national
> thing, and if so would that mean everything they bought you goes back
> to them or would they be able to sign stuff over to you as Suzanne
> suggested?
> I'm asking because my impression of it was once your case is closed
> they take everything back, because technically if you're gainfully
> employed you have the capability of saving up and buying your own
> equipment.  It would kind of suck if you needed something, like a
> laptop, for your job and wouldn't be able to get a new one within that
> 90 day period to replace it.  If you don't know all that it's fine
> though, just thought I'd try to see what you found out.
>
> On 4/15/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 90 days after employment and your case is closed.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
> Shelton
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 9:15 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > That is something I could see happening, but as Arielle said I don't
> > think if given the choice I would go for it.  I'm not sure about what
> > other state agencies do, but in Ohio you have to sign loan agreements
> > for everything they get you so you know that it's their property.
> > They don't really buy it for you, they buy it so you can use it and
> > give it back once your case is closed, even if it might take you years
> > to save up to buy a decent laptop or a notetaker of your own with a
> > starting salary of 40,00 or less.  I wouldn't like for something to
> > happen in the state government and have them take my car away, or say,
> > "Well you got a job now... we would have closed your case but since
> > you have this car from us you have to continue to keep all the
> > requirements even though you've already met your employment goals."
> > It just seems like it would be messy to me if it happened that way.
> >
> > On 4/16/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> It would be interesting if vocational rehab started paying for Google
> >> Cars just like they currently pay for expensive Braille Notes and
> >> such. In a way that would be good, since having a car could increase
> >> employment prospects, but it could also deepen the dependence many of
> >> us feel on government agencies. "Pick a vocational goal that I think
> >> you should have, and wait a few months for me to drag my feet on it,
> >> or you won't get an autonomous car!" might be the stated or implied
> >> directive of a VR counselor. We are already finding ourselves bending
> >> over backwards to satisfy VR's bureaucratic requirements and counselor
> >> idiosyncrasies in order to have technology or training funded.
> >> Arielle
> >>
> >> On 4/16/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I find myself agreeing with several points.
> >>>
> >>> First, by my posts about the costs I was trying to put it into
> >>> perspective that for most of us, the car being so expensive might not
> >>> be worth it until the price comes down simply because most working
> >>> families have 2 cars because multiple people need to be in different
> >>> places at the same time.  I agree with Kirt that even after this thing
> >>> is out we'll probably have to wait a fairly long time till the price
> >>> is reasonable.  Second, we're not sure yet just how autonymous this
> >>> car is.  Even though it might drive itself most of the way, I could
> >>> very well see it needing instruction to take detours if needed.  Say,
> >>> for instance, that you've chartered your course for your car remotely
> >>> and you just want it to drive itself to come pick you up somewhere.
> >>> Somewhere along the way it gets low on gas and doesn't have anyone or
> >>> anything to tell it to pause en route to find the nearest gas station.
> >>>  And even then, who would be there to fill up the tank and tell the
> >>> car to resume the route?  Just hypotheticals worth some consideration,
> >>> since this whole thread is pretty hypothetical.  Also, even if a car
> >>> dropped one spouse off and went to get the other it would be a lot of
> >>> driving around.  Another hypothetical; lets say a blind couple lives
> >>> in a house, with one office five miles to the north and another five
> >>> miles to the south.  I realize these are very small measurements, but
> >>> just for the sake of thinking about this we'll go with it.  One person
> >>> needs to be to work by eight, so the car drives ten miles to the
> >>> office and back.  Then it leaves again and drives five more miles to
> >>> drop the other person off.  When the person who got to work by eight
> >>> needs to leave, the car would drive another ten miles to get them and
> >>> another five to get home, then another ten miles to pick up the other
> >>> person and bring them home.  That's 40 miles in a day.  Now, say the
> >>> couple each has their own cars, which each drive just ten miles a day
> >>> going back and forth to work.  That's half the driving, half the gas,
> >>> and although there are 2 cars on  the road instead of one, less
> >>> emissions that are not healthy for the environment.  What I was saying
> >>> was that in order for this to really work for most families the cars
> >>> would have to be affordable enough so people could have two at once,
> >>> otherwise the car would incurr other expenses on top of the already
> >>> heightened cost and it wouldn't be worth it.
> >>> I do agree with William too that this is not necessarily the top
> >>> priority we have to deal with, but I don't necessarily see it as a
> >>> negative thing.  I agree with Chris that it will probably help some
> >>> people get jobs... I've mentioned that I'm in a line of work in which
> >>> the ability for me to drive would be marketable.  I think both these
> >>> statements are right, but Arielle's point of widening the gap between
> >>> the employed and unemployed was really concerning to me too.  I could
> >>> in some ways see how this might be a deterrent to employers, as in the
> >>> following:  Employer: "Thank you for coming in today, I'll call you
> >>> once the other interviews are finished.  One more question, can you
> >>> drive one of those Google cars?  We could really use someone in our
> >>> area across town."  Interviewee: "I can't afford one yet.  I'm hoping
> >>> to save up for one though."  In this case, the employer's expectation
> >>> of blind people being able to have the Google cars might weigh in the
> >>> interviewee's favor, because he might have interviewed him with the
> >>> intention of having him drive the google car to complete the tasks of
> >>> the job.  I think there are a lot of complicated positives and
> >>> negatives to consider.
> >>>
> >>> On 4/16/13, Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>> Good morning Chris and everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>>     Absolutely! It will also open up jobs currently closed to us.
> >>>> Should
> >>>> you
> >>>>
> >>>> become a cab or a limousine driver who uses the technology the NFB
> >>>> developed
> >>>>
> >>>> when we visit your community we'll be sure to request you as our limo
> >>>> driver
> >>>>
> >>>> or will be sure to call you directly so we'll get you as our personal
> >>>> cab
> >>>> driver. We all ready do this here in San Antonio. There's a cab driver
> >>>> we
> >>>> use regularly. We have his cell phone number and call him directly
> >>>> whenever
> >>>>
> >>>> we need transportation.
> >>>>
> >>>> Peter Donahue
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "christopher nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:01 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> But do you think our ability to drive may increase our employment
> rate?
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris Nusbaum
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 16, 2013, at 1:40 AM, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Just my own two sense:
> >>>>> I do not care, if the automated car offers us hot coffee! That or a
> >>>>> car
> >>>>> with extra clothes will not be parked with my name on it.
> >>>>> I am not out to shoot-down someones dream.  I am all for innovation;
> >>>>> however, we need to fix our problems within our society a bit more.
> >>>>> If
> >>>>> blind people overall had more stability with a greater respect as
> >>>>> whole
> >>>>> individuals, employed at a 80% rate, then I would advocate us as
> >>>>> drivers.
> >>>>> I could just here the advertizement:
> >>>>> Were you in a accident, maybe with a blind person while driving, call
> >>>>> (800)lawyers.  Sorry for being cynical, I think time and resources
> >>>>> need
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>
> >>>>> be properly prioritized.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 5:08 PM, "Sophie Trist" <
> sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Joshua, the NFB car requires intricate vests and lots of other
> >>>>>> complex
> >>>>>> equipment. The google car offers us the option of driving an
> >>>>>> autonomous
> >>>>>> vehicle without all the excess gear. Blind people have enough
> baggage
> >>>>>> as
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> is. We don't need special driving clothes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:49:18 +0000
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It was on the runway at Daytona, two years ago.
> >>>>>> The car should be out by 2016.
> >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
> >>>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sophie Trist
> >>>>>> [sweetpeareader at gmail.com]
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 6:44 AM
> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Joshua, I guess I can't talk much about this since I never
> >>>>>> actually saw the NFB car in action, but from what I've heard,
> >>>>>> that autonomous vehicle was a bit disappointing. Besides, I've
> >>>>>> only heard about it one time, at convention a few years ago.
> >>>>>> Since then, nothing has been heard of the NFB car--it's just
> >>>>>> disappeared. Right now, the google car is looking a lot more
> >>>>>> promising. I support the NFB to my core, but if there's another
> >>>>>> product that serves better than an NFB product (like a Revolution
> >>>>>> cane, for example) I won't hesitate to get it. Also, I have one
> >>>>>> question about the google cars. Do they run on gas or
> >>>>>> electricity?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:25:35 +0000
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Wow, Peter!
> >>>>>> Like minds huh?
> >>>>>> I just posted this same link on here a few minutes ago!
> >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
> >>>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Peter
> >>>>>> Donahue [pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com]
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 5:23 PM
> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Good afternoon one more time everyone,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  Better yet visit http://www.blinddriverchallenge.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  There's lots of information about our efforts to develop this
> >>>>>> technology
> >>>>>> along with videos showing a blind person driving the car on the
> >>>>>> track at
> >>>>>> Daytona Beach. The technology and the possibilities have all
> >>>>>> ready been
> >>>>>> demonstrated. I also understand that several blind individuals
> >>>>>> have driven
> >>>>>> the car on the streets of Baltimore with success.We all need to
> >>>>>> unite and
> >>>>>> work with whomever will partner with us be it Google or someone
> >>>>>> else to
> >>>>>> insure that any self-driving vehicle that is developed is
> >>>>>> controllable by a
> >>>>>> blind person and that our right to operate such vehicles is
> >>>>>> protected. We
> >>>>>> don't need the very people who stand to benefit from the freedom
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> empowerment such a vehicle could give us undermining such a noble
> >>>>>> initiative.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peter Donahue
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> >>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> >>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:36 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Amen, Patrick!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
> >>>>>> Public Relations Committee
> >>>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
> >>>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >>>>>> Patrick Molloy
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 3:27 PM
> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm sorry Ashley, but I completely and wholeheartedly disagree
> >>>>>> with you.
> >>>>>> When NTSB executives are saying that autonomous cars are the way
> >>>>>> to go,
> >>>>>> don't you think they deserve some credence? I honestly lost faith
> >>>>>> in the NFB
> >>>>>> car. Sure it was "made for blind people," but you barely ever saw
> >>>>>> the thing!
> >>>>>> If you're going to make a car for the blind, don't hide it away
> >>>>>> from the
> >>>>>> public and then give no explanation when it essentially
> >>>>>> disappears. I'm not
> >>>>>> saying that the Google car would be perfect. I'm not fooling
> >>>>>> myself with
> >>>>>> that idea. But, I think that the technology is really impressive
> >>>>>> and, with
> >>>>>> some modifications, it will be great for blind people. But hey!
> >>>>>> If you want
> >>>>>> to always wait around for a driver, or a bus, or paratransit,
> >>>>>> more power to
> >>>>>> you. It just seems like this all runs counter to the philosophy
> >>>>>> that many
> >>>>>> people within the NFB preach daily. As for your arguments as to
> >>>>>> why blind
> >>>>>> people shouldn't drive, I think if you read the articles about
> >>>>>> the potential
> >>>>>> of autonomous cars, you'll find most if not all of your fears
> >>>>>> more or less
> >>>>>> assuaged. Just because something SEEMS difficult is no reason for
> >>>>>> us blind
> >>>>>> people to avoid it like the plague. That would be ridiculous! If
> >>>>>> I decide
> >>>>>> not to get this car, it would only be after I'd tried it out and
> >>>>>> found it
> >>>>>> not to my liking. Since the NFB car is more or less dead, I feel
> >>>>>> that we as
> >>>>>> blind people have a responsibility to get behind the Google car
> >>>>>> in one way
> >>>>>> or another.
> >>>>>> Isn't that what the NFB always says? That they're there for blind
> >>>>>> people
> >>>>>> when we need something? Well, we need to get around and we're
> >>>>>> tired of
> >>>>>> waiting like kids for our parents to pick us up from soccer
> >>>>>> practice! If
> >>>>>> we're going to be independent, successful individuals, then we
> >>>>>> should have
> >>>>>> the right to get around just like our sighted colleagues.
> >>>>>> Separate is not
> >>>>>> equal in this case. You may never drive this thing, and you may
> >>>>>> think it
> >>>>>> ridiculous, but I highly encourage people like yourself and Carly
> >>>>>> to at
> >>>>>> least consider the point of view of those of us who want to drive
> >>>>>> like our
> >>>>>> brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers. You may think us
> >>>>>> self-serving,
> >>>>>> but doesn't that make sighted people self-serving? I mean, they
> >>>>>> can take a
> >>>>>> bus too! The issue here is choice. We shouldn't HAVE to take a
> >>>>>> bus if we
> >>>>>> don't want to wait 2 hours. Now, if it's a nice day and you've
> >>>>>> got time to
> >>>>>> kill, hey! Spend 5 hours going to the doctor! But we should have
> >>>>>> the same
> >>>>>> freedom that all sighted people have. With that freedom will come
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> realization that blind people can do the same things as sighted
> >>>>>> people.
> >>>>>> Patrick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 4/14/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>> I haven't read all this thread much. But from what I read, it
> >>>>>> seems
> >>>>>> like you
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> all believe the car would provide more transit options and you'd
> >>>>>> buy
> >>>>>> one if
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> given a choice.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I know the problems in the bus system; I've seen them and ridden
> >>>>>> paratransit
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> and felt its impact of unreliability and lateness.
> >>>>>> That said, I think other methods of travel are more efficient
> >>>>>> and safe.
> >>>>>> Things like cabs, car pools, getting rides with friends when you
> >>>>>> want
> >>>>>> to hang out, and hiring a driver would be better.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I do not support blind people driving because we cannot see to
> >>>>>> override the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> car.
> >>>>>> I have to agree with the individual that said that having a car
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>> self serving. We are putting other lives at risk.
> >>>>>> We face many obstacles on the rode like other cars wipping in
> >>>>>> front of
> >>>>>> us when its not their turn; cars inching along not going the
> >>>>>> speed
> >>>>>> limit and you got to move around them, waiting for pedestrians
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> walk, rode rage, and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> drunk drivers.
> >>>>>> Without vision, we cannot! intervene the computerized car to
> >>>>>> override
> >>>>>> it when obstacles arise.
> >>>>>> I cannot tell you how many times my parents slammed on the
> >>>>>> brakes due
> >>>>>> to some driver wipping out in front of them, drivers who
> >>>>>> unexpectedly
> >>>>>> turn without turning on their turn signal like their supposed
> >>>>>> to,
> >>>>>> pedestrians who
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> are still walking across the street when the orange don't walk
> >>>>>> signal
> >>>>>> is on
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> thus making cars wait, having to swerve around bicyclists, and
> >>>>>> distracted drivers on cell phones.
> >>>>>> All these obstacles create hazards which a human driver with
> >>>>>> eyes
> >>>>>> needs to see and make a quick judgement and use reflexes to act
> >>>>>> upon
> >>>>>> unexpected hazards.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, yeah, when you all can afford a new google car, go right
> >>>>>> ahead and
> >>>>>> you never know who might be hurt if you even get a license. I
> >>>>>> just
> >>>>>> don't want to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> be on the road with you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think the nfb car sounded safer and it was built for blind
> >>>>>> people,
> >>>>>> but we
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> abandoned that project, probably cause of money.
> >>>>>> Ashley
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Kaiti Shelton
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:08 PM
> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I don't see it as self-serving either... in my experience with
> >>>>>> buses I
> >>>>>> have to agree with Sophie here.  Plus, some parts of town that I
> >>>>>> need
> >>>>>> to go either aren't served by buses, or take a really long time
> >>>>>> to get
> >>>>>> to which sometimes involves going in the opposite way of the
> >>>>>> destination for a while and then circling back because of
> >>>>>> Dayton's bus
> >>>>>> system.  (It's organized by buses going north-south and
> >>>>>> east-west, but
> >>>>>> sometimes when you're at a stop the time of the bus won't tell
> >>>>>> you if
> >>>>>> the bus is going north or south, or east or west so you have to
> >>>>>> roll
> >>>>>> with it.  I'd much rather just get into a car and drive than
> >>>>>> boomerang
> >>>>>> around the city just to get to one place, and then do it again
> >>>>>> returning to school.  And because of this, and the fact that it
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> bus system isn't exactly equivalent to a car, I don't consider
> >>>>>> it
> >>>>>> self-serving either.  I have no problem in supporting it and
> >>>>>> other
> >>>>>> programs of public transit for people who can't drive a car,
> >>>>>> which
> >>>>>> more often are people who are low income, have a suspended
> >>>>>> license, or
> >>>>>> who are inner-city, or elderly than blind, but if I and other
> >>>>>> blind
> >>>>>> people can afford a car and want one I don't see anything
> >>>>>> self-serving
> >>>>>> in that, it's just doing what is most efficient.  I actually
> >>>>>> think not
> >>>>>> taking advantage of this opportunity on the basis that the less
> >>>>>> than
> >>>>>> efficient public transit systems work fine and that other people
> >>>>>> can
> >>>>>> use the money or whatever that would go into buying this car
> >>>>>> would be
> >>>>>> like saying you'd pass up going to college even though you could
> >>>>>> because other people can be served by your tuition money, and
> >>>>>> the high
> >>>>>> school diploma would serve you just fine.  It's more efficient,
> >>>>>> so why
> >>>>>> not do it?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sophie, I too see it more as an investment in independence.  :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 4/14/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Im buying this damn car the first chance I get. I'd rather be
> >>>>>> self
> >>>>>> serving and frivolous and drive to some place within 20 minutes
> >>>>>> instead of sitting on the bus for three hours, or more,
> >>>>>> depending on
> >>>>>> if the driver didn't call my stop and I'd be riding extra long.
> >>>>>> Here
> >>>>>> in chicagothat isn't a problem but I used to live in Tallahassee
> >>>>>> FL
> >>>>>> where there was no automated system to tell you where you were.
> >>>>>> So
> >>>>>> yes, I'd much rather be self serving and save up. Besides, as I
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>> said before in a previous message, this technology is driving
> >>>>>> along
> >>>>>> the streets of Nevada. I'm so excited that I'm even grinning and
> >>>>>> daydreaming about driving along side of a bus, and happy that
> >>>>>> I'm
> >>>>>> frivolous enough to pay for a self serving device that will
> >>>>>> allowfor
> >>>>>> me to get to the office quicker, or to an interview on time,
> >>>>>> thus
> >>>>>> allowing me to have greater chances to pay my taxes so you other
> >>>>>> non
> >>>>>> self serving blind people can take the bus. I think it's a neat
> >>>>>> little circle of irony, don't you think? LOL!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>> t104
> >>>>>> %40gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Kaiti
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> for
> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> >>>>>> 0pccua.edu
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> for
> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> >>>>>> r%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> > om
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai
> > l.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Kaiti
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai
> > l.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kaiti
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> > .com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>