[nabs-l] the test accomodations

Tue Apr 30 01:35:09 UTC 2013

Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a  monitor hooked up to your Braille note ever come up so the professor or  whoever could see what you were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get dicey with graphics in the file or massive word banks.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course
> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue
> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a
> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters
> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated
> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the
> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have
> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center
> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors
> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their
> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone
> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later.
> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between
> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a
> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it
> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated,
> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is
> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I
> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of
> using my Braille Note.
> 
> Arielle
> 
> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Kirt,
>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, how do
>> you read the exam?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kirt
>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>> 
>> Ashley,
>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the test
>> outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is as good as
>> you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the very least?
>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take their test
>> 
>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the class
>> takes it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington" <lilliepennington at fuse.net>
>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ashley,
>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want to
>>> be
>>> thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these types of
>>> problems. For example, if your taking another class like this where you
>>> may
>>> want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? Would you be willing to
>>> pay
>>> with your own money for a Braille test? You could look into getting your
>>> tests transcribed somehow. You could talk to your future professors about
>>> this (you'd probably have to make arrangements for them to somehow send
>>> the
>>> test off to make sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you
>>> mentioning in another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable
>>> are
>>> you with electronic files? The professor may have  an electronic copy of
>>> the
>>> test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from there on
>>> your
>>> display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille (sort of.) For these
>>> tests with the foreign language words, and other tests in general, this
>>> could also iliminate the reader problems your having. I don't know if any
>>> 
>>> of
>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I was
>>> thinking of.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
>>> Bramlett
>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>> 
>>> Hi Justin and everyone,
>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of
>>> hearing
>>> a reader state these words.
>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the braille
>>> production anymore; I don't know what the assistive technology guy left.
>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for this.
>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam
>>> brailled
>>> last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to work with.
>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument against
>>> braille was the following:
>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read the
>>> exam
>>> with jaws.
>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam.
>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not
>>> necessary
>>> to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to translate into
>>> braille because you have a means to access the exam now.
>>> 
>>> It was a pr exam btw.
>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough time.
>>> She would make the same arguments I believe.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: justin williams
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>> 
>>> At this point, why not.  Not a bad idea.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne
>>> Germano
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>> 
>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow along
>>> with
>>> the reader?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman <
>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out
>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, if
>>>> the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow their
>>>> rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll be
>>>> willing to work something out with you that's fair.
>>>> Arielle
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have to
>>>>> use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you step
>>>>> out of their office.
>>>>> I  don't know where other blind students have taken tests with their
>>>>> private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a designated
>>>>> testing room in the building where the class is, or you could go to
>>>>> the professor's office hours and do it there while the professor is
>>>>> around to ensure you don't cheat.
>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who
>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I
>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my
>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This will
>>>>> help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then you
>>>>> might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but they're
>>>>> not binding on you as the student. The only one who really has
>>>>> control over how you take tests is the professor. Some professors
>>>>> give their entire classes online exams. That's their right as
>>>>> professors
>>> to do.
>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader,
>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other
>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me
>>>>>> arrange for
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam.
>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this
>>>>>> violates school
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> policy.
>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own readers
>>>>>> for exams with no objection from the professor? Where would they
>>>>>> take the exam and how does the professor ensure that you did not
>>>>>> cheat then?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their office.
>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you hired
>>>>>> yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that arrangement
>>>>>> you worked out with your professor. The DSS office only has
>>>>>> authority if you give it to them by asking to take the test in their
>>> office.
>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the
>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite
>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically not
>>>>>> quite in line with school policy.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree
>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing
>>>>>>> certificate. The class
>>>> I
>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion.
>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college.
>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own readers.
>>>> Gosh.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and
>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me
>>>>>>> to do this.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts and
>>>>>>> looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a reader
>>>>>>> to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the
>>>>>>> option
>>> to
>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA.
>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower
>>>>>>> grade using bad readers.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can
>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most
>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced
>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material
>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they
>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing
>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting
>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a community
>>>>>>> college, maybe the professor could read it for you and scribe your
>>>>>>> answers during office hours the day before the test or some such?
>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for
>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. Some
>>>>>>> disability services offices frown on this practice because they
>>>>>>> prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an option
>>>>>>> that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who might not
>>> care much.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but when
>>>>>>>> I
>>>> had
>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the
>>>>>>>> person
>>>> was
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. And
>>>>>>>> then you interview them by having them read to you.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring between
>>>>>>>>> colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always provided me
>>>>>>>>> with
>>> competent
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words
>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud.  I hope I don't
>>>>>>>>> run into the same problem you are dealing with right now and my
>>>>>>>>> next college.
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations
>>>>>>>>>> you get.
>>>>>>>>>> Do
>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs?
>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a
>>>>>>>>>> scantron,
>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my
>>>>>>>>>> readers were
>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak slower
>>>>>>>>> and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that clearly
>>>>>>>>> and read fast
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>> jaws
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can
>>>> directly
>>>>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I missed.
>>> If
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another message.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> 
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