[nabs-l] the test accomodations

Tue Apr 30 07:00:43 UTC 2013

Oh, ok Thanks Kirt.  God Bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kirt
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:54 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations

Oh, nope. What happened was I accidentally changed my iPhone cursor so it 
wrote everything at the very bottom of the thread… I will give you a proper 
reply off list tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:52 AM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> 
wrote:

> Hey! Kirt, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I cant't read 
> what you send me as a reply with JAWS. For some reason JAWS is not reading 
> your message. Only says send from my Iphone. Probably you send me a 
> picture of the message instead. Hope you get this. Thanks and God bless!! 
> :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:35 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:12 AM, Helga Schreiber 
> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey! Kirt, this is Helga. I'm sorry for asking this dumb question. What 
>> do you mean when you say use a TA as a test reader? I'm just curious what 
>> the word TA mean? I actually never heard of the word abrebiation. Also, I 
>> just would like to ask you, Do you know where can I get a Dux Bury 
>> program and a Braille printer that is compatibel with the BrailleNote 
>> apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like to read 
>> Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when I'm reading 
>> stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm actually doing an 
>> English major where I need to take Literature classes that involve a lot 
>> of reading. Actually, this semester I took American Literature before 
>> 1865, and it was very challenging for me because the only accessable 
>> format of the Book  that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a 
>> audio cd from Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand 
>> the stories since my first Language is not English, even though I speak 
>> it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also talked to my 
>> DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not buy me the 
>> Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a Braille paper 
>> copy of a reading will really help me a lot since I'm thinking in taking 
>> American Literature after 1865 in the Fall semester. Thanks for listening 
>> to me. I really appreciate it. God bless! :)
>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:31 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>
>> In my experience, it's totally depended on the professor.  Some have
>> offered to read me the test in their offices, most have recommended I
>> use a TA as a test reader (I know that's not an option for you), some
>> have preferred to let DSS handle all those logistics even though it's
>> often meant they get my exam significantly later than the other
>> students'.  Since this is entirely the professor's decision, I've
>> always made an effort to meet my professors as soon as I practically
>> could and keep in constant touch throughout the semester.  Usually,
>> though not always, this has worked well for me.
>>
>> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> One more thing.
>>> I've beaten this to death probably. While I would like the idea of doing 
>>> it
>>> in the professor's office with a reader or my notetaker,
>>> this would be challenging. The professor leaves campus after her finals. 
>>> She
>>> would have to stay after finals to sit and supervise me.
>>> I know because she told me after administering the final, she would go 
>>> to
>>> the testing center to pick my final up.
>>>
>>> That said, maybe we can work something fair out. Again, I'm glad to hear
>>> professors work with you all directly for these situations.
>>> Its been my experience that they assume I'm going to the testing center
>>> except for small quizzes.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ashley Bramlett
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:15 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>
>>> Hello Kirt,
>>> Thanks. I am not dismissing these ideas. Please understand the bind I'm 
>>> in.
>>> What happened was the professor told me to take it in the testing 
>>> center.
>>> She told me to request a scribe and reader
>>> I did so. The dss counselor told me she would not find a reader who 
>>> could
>>> meet my needs; that readers were based on availability. I'm now 
>>> concerned
>>> that they cannot read the exam and this will hinder my grade.
>>> I can certainly ask if the reader can read it in her office. Yes, come 
>>> to
>>> think of it. my counselor never demanded I take it in the testing 
>>> center,
>>> but implied that was the way it was done for exams.
>>>
>>> I do like your idea of having the reader in the professor's office so in
>>> case we run into problems, she can jump in.
>>> Other staff and a TA are not options; it’s a community college; she is 
>>> the
>>> only full time professor in that department.
>>>
>>> I'll see what I can work out with the school, if anything.
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring
>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:32 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>
>>> Ashley,
>>> I think you'll understand by now that I don't mean to be rude or
>>> snobbish; subtlety just isn't my thing.  That being said, I hope
>>> you'll take my bluntness for what it is; it's just my way of
>>> expressing myself, and I don't mean you any personal insult by it.
>>> Even so, I think I've seen three or four people, at least, who have
>>> already answered the question you just asked me, multiple times.  Even
>>> though this has been said over and over again already, professors are
>>> generally flexible and willing to work with us...at least that's been
>>> my experience, thus far.  You could see if this professors' department
>>> has a spare office aid, secretary, receptionist...even departments
>>> without teaching assistants usually have some sort of auxiliary staff
>>> on hand and, from my experience, some of these people can be very
>>> helpful, especially if your professor is asking them.  Also, you could
>>> maybe work out a compromise position between doing everything with DSS
>>> and doing it all with your professor directly.  What I mean is that
>>> you could see if the professor would let you take the test during her
>>> office hours and in her office, with a reader provided by DSS.  That
>>> way, the professor would be there to help with any pronunciation
>>> issues, but she would still be free to do whatever other work she
>>> needed to.
>>> Honestly, when I approach my professors about tests, I usually say
>>> something like "I'm more than willing to do this with DSS but if you'd
>>> prefer to work directly with me I usually like that better."
>>> Oftentimes, I've had professors volunteer themselves as
>>> readers/scribes, especially for simple and straightforward tests;
>>> also, like I said, even without TAs your professor might have someone
>>> who could help.  You'll never know if you don't ask.
>>>
>>> On 4/29/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course
>>>> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue
>>>> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a
>>>> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters
>>>> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated
>>>> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the
>>>> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have
>>>> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center
>>>> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors
>>>> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their
>>>> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone
>>>> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later.
>>>> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between
>>>> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a
>>>> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it
>>>> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated,
>>>> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is
>>>> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I
>>>> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of
>>>> using my Braille Note.
>>>>
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not, how 
>>>>> do
>>>>> you read the exam?
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Kirt
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley,
>>>>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the 
>>>>> test
>>>>> outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is as 
>>>>> good
>>>>> as
>>>>> you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the very least?
>>>>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take their
>>>>> test
>>>>>
>>>>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the 
>>>>> class
>>>>> takes it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington"
>>>>> <lilliepennington at fuse.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley,
>>>>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these types 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> problems. For example, if your taking another class like this where 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> may
>>>>>> want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it? Would you be willing 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> pay
>>>>>> with your own money for a Braille test? You could look into getting 
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> tests transcribed somehow. You could talk to your future professors
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> this (you'd probably have to make arrangements for them to somehow 
>>>>>> send
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> test off to make sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you
>>>>>> mentioning in another email that you had a Braille note. How 
>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> you with electronic files? The professor may have  an electronic copy 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from there 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille (sort of.) For 
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> tests with the foreign language words, and other tests in general, 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> could also iliminate the reader problems your having. I don't know if
>>>>>> any
>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> thinking of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
>>>>>> Bramlett
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Justin and everyone,
>>>>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of
>>>>>> hearing
>>>>>> a reader state these words.
>>>>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the 
>>>>>> braille
>>>>>> production anymore; I don't know what the assistive technology guy 
>>>>>> left.
>>>>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for
>>>>>> this.
>>>>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam
>>>>>> brailled
>>>>>> last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to work with.
>>>>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument
>>>>>> against
>>>>>> braille was the following:
>>>>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> exam
>>>>>> with jaws.
>>>>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam.
>>>>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not
>>>>>> necessary
>>>>>> to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to translate 
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> braille because you have a means to access the exam now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was a pr exam btw.
>>>>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>> She would make the same arguments I believe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: justin williams
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM
>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this point, why not.  Not a bad idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne
>>>>>> Germano
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow 
>>>>>> along
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the reader?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman <
>>>>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out
>>>>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup, 
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow 
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll be
>>>>>>> willing to work something out with you that's fair.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have to
>>>>>>>> use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you step
>>>>>>>> out of their office.
>>>>>>>> I  don't know where other blind students have taken tests with 
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a designated
>>>>>>>> testing room in the building where the class is, or you could go to
>>>>>>>> the professor's office hours and do it there while the professor is
>>>>>>>> around to ensure you don't cheat.
>>>>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who
>>>>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I
>>>>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my
>>>>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This 
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then you
>>>>>>>> might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but 
>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>> not binding on you as the student. The only one who really has
>>>>>>>> control over how you take tests is the professor. Some professors
>>>>>>>> give their entire classes online exams. That's their right as
>>>>>>>> professors
>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader,
>>>>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other
>>>>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me
>>>>>>>>> arrange for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam.
>>>>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this
>>>>>>>>> violates school
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> policy.
>>>>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own 
>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>> for exams with no objection from the professor? Where would they
>>>>>>>>> take the exam and how does the professor ensure that you did not
>>>>>>>>> cheat then?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their
>>>>>>>>> office.
>>>>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you 
>>>>>>>>> hired
>>>>>>>>> yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that arrangement
>>>>>>>>> you worked out with your professor. The DSS office only has
>>>>>>>>> authority if you give it to them by asking to take the test in 
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>> office.
>>>>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the
>>>>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite
>>>>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically not
>>>>>>>>> quite in line with school policy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree
>>>>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing
>>>>>>>>>> certificate. The class
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion.
>>>>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college.
>>>>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own 
>>>>>>>>>> readers.
>>>>>>> Gosh.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and
>>>>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me
>>>>>>>>>> to do this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts 
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a reader
>>>>>>>>>> to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the
>>>>>>>>>> option
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA.
>>>>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower
>>>>>>>>>> grade using bad readers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can
>>>>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most
>>>>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced
>>>>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material
>>>>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they
>>>>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing
>>>>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting
>>>>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a community
>>>>>>>>>> college, maybe the professor could read it for you and scribe 
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> answers during office hours the day before the test or some such?
>>>>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for
>>>>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent. Some
>>>>>>>>>> disability services offices frown on this practice because they
>>>>>>>>>> prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an option
>>>>>>>>>> that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who might 
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>> care much.
>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but 
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. And
>>>>>>>>>>> then you interview them by having them read to you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring between
>>>>>>>>>>>> colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always provided 
>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>> competent
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words
>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud.  I hope I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> run into the same problem you are dealing with right now and my
>>>>>>>>>>>> next college.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do
>>>>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scantron,
>>>>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers were
>>>>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak 
>>>>>>>>>>>> slower
>>>>>>>>>>>> and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that clearly
>>>>>>>>>>>> and read fast
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can
>>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> missed.
>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> om
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>
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>> Do you have a case through vocational rehab? If you have a rehab 
>> counselor, you should be able to make a case for that if you really need 
>> it… But they are incredibly expensive. My suggestion, if you like reading 
>> things in braille, is to use one of the popular notetakers, like a 
>> braille note or braille sense, because then you can read electronic files 
>> in braille without all the extra headache of putting it on paper.
>
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