[nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
justin williams
justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Mon Dec 9 01:57:26 UTC 2013
I do the exact same things Anna does; I just feel out the situation. All
of us do.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anna Givens
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 7:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
Elizabeth and all,
I think Steve spoke very well to this. I am also partially sighted,
partially blind, low vision, visually impaired, legally blind, blind....
whatever you want to call it. It is harder for most people to understand
people with some vision who call themselves blind. It does seem to be
expected of us with any vision, to struggle to use what vision we have.
This is not just by sighted people but by the blind as well. It seems to be
a widespread belief among all populations that vision is to be used, if
possible. Obviously this is to the detriment of those of us who are blind
but also have some vision. People don't understand this. Even as a blind
person with vision, myself, it has taken me a very long time to understand
it myself.
You do not have to take on the role of educating people about this.
It is not your job. However, as I'm sure you realize, the less you educate
people, the less they will know. I educate people when I can because I want
them to be educated when they meet the next blind person in their life. But
if I don't have time or something, then I don't. It is not something I am
obligated to do. But like I said, there are times that I can educate, and I
do sometimes, for the sake of others.
Now, if I understand your complaint, you are saying that strangers are
asking you how much you can see, or what your level of blindness is; and you
are asking what to do about this. In my opinion, you are
correct- there is no need for that question. That is not a matter of
educating a person about blindness, it is just people asking pointless
questions. The only education they get from you telling them what you can
and cannot see is a fact about you that doesn't really matter. If there
seems to be no reason for the question they are asking, I would not respond.
Some people are just curious, I guess. I wish I had an example of the
situation you are referring to. But if someone is just coming up to you on
the street, and saying: "Are you blind, or legally blind?" or "How much can
you see?", I just say I am blind and keep walking. When I am dealing with
people that I see on a regular basis, I will inform them, if they have
questions. Because I feel that it is helpful to everyone if they understand
better what my particular situation is. But for a stranger, I do a lot of
ignoring as if I didn't hear them (which some people may think is rude, but
I don't), or I will say "no thank you" firmly, and clearly walk away
(especially if someone is doing the grabbing thing). Give me some more
examples. I tell people I am blind, and sometimes I will purposely not use
my vision just because it really doesn't matter.
Also, when people say things like "You must have some vision", sometimes I
educate them, depending on the situation, or I say "yes"
and keep walking, or sometimes I lie and say "nope" and keep walking.
Because yeah.......it just doesn't matter. Another thing that is possible
is to ask them why they are asking. And go from there.
Anna E Givens
On 12/8/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow I am totally blind, and have therefore never had to deal with this
> particular situation, I feel very similarly conflicted about my
> obligation to educate the public. On the one hand, as Katie said, it
> just comes with the territory of being blind/legally blind/whatever. I
> recognize that, no matter what, I am an ambassador for the whole blind
> community and someways because, As ridiculous as this is, many people
> will base their entire conception of blind people in general around me
> because I am the only blind person they have ever met, and of course
> this will completely shake the way these people treat other blind
> people in the future. Also, again going back to Katie, A lot of people
> just don't know any better at first but, given patients and a little
> bit of time, they start to understand that blindness isn't really even
> close to the life - defining disaster they originally assumed it was.
> However, I also have the right to live my life as I damn well see fit,
> and that means I don't always have the time or energy or desire to
> answer the same questions over and over again at nausium for people
> who will probably never get over there preconceived notions of my
> inferiority anyhow. There comes a point where you just want to live
> your life without being constantly interrupted and distracted from
> doing what you are trying to do. and of course The point at which this
> happens it's up to each individual person. It seems to be a very fine
balancing act and I'll be totally honest and say I haven't quite gotten the
hang of it yet.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Another thing I thought of when I read Suzanne's last response... I
>> mentioned this in my first email, but I think it deserves a little
>> more emphasis.
>>
>> The bottom line is that as blind people we are a minority. I think
>> sometimes, especially if you're a person who hangs around with other
>> blind people and/or people who know you or another blind person a lot
>> then we forget how clueless others can be. My roommates wouldn't
>> think of asking another blind person how they cook, clean, use a
>> cane, or read braille because they see me do it on a daily basis.
>> Our parents and friends would most likely not either. But for those
>> who do not know a single person who is blind they just don't know,
>> and sometimes in order to let them know we have to educate a little bit.
>>
>> Example: One of my roommates and I met because we took an intro to
>> philosophy class in our first semester. Our professor was a total
>> jerk, and liked to say rude things about people in the class... the
>> Chinese students, a Muslum student, a random girl who didn't appear
>> to have a minority issue for him to pick on at all, and me. What he
>> liked to do, it seemed, was ask questions to students and belittle
>> them, like asking the Islamic student if he had a similar concept of
>> God to Christians. When the student said his religion was really
>> parallel to Christianity, and that his book was a lot like the bible
>> with some extra material and different phrasing, the professor
>> laughed in his face. He asked me a stupid question about a mirror
>> and did the same kind of thing one day, and my then roommate stopped
>> me after class to tell me I should report the professor, since he was
>> being totally out of line. We then went on to study together, and
>> found we had some other classes together and lived on the same floor
>> of our dorm. Early on she did ask some questions about things like
>> JAWS, braille, etc, and had I not been willing to answer her
>> questions and educate her a little, I would have most likely pushed
>> her away and not gained one of my closest friends. She was still a
>> stranger to me in the beginning, but sometimes you have to be open to
>> answering questions.
>>
>> My roommates have both asked questions, and both have come to the
>> understanding that I am just as capable in school and in life as they
>> are. The only real difference is I do some things differently, and
>> now that they understand that it is no big deal. Other minority
>> groups have the same issue; deaf people educate about sign language
>> and deaf culture, wheelchair users have to go to bat for ramps and
>> elivators to make buildings accessible, etc. It's just part of the
>> territory, but things are a lot harder if we don't educate a
>> little---harder than they really need to be. If someone is a creep
>> or is too abrasive then the choice to educate is up to you, but when
>> the question is harmless and the person is just curious a little
>> explanation isn't that hard to give.
>>
>>> On 12/8/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>> Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just because
>>> of our answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so obviously I
>>> get these questions. My experience has been far worse then
>>> questions. I spent my entire childhood being teased or rude comments
>>> about my vision so frankly I would rather have someone ask me a
>>> question then have a bus driver kick me off the bus because he did
>>> not believe I was blind and thought my guide dog was fake because I
>>> help by hand up to my face to see my coins before I paid. Or all the
>>> shit I heard when I used a cane "You're not blind"
>>>
>>> No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.
>>>
>>> You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they were
>>> educated by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.
>>>
>>> When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or "Can/t
>>> you afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no problem saying I
>>> am legally blind and it cannot be corrected with glasses and maybe
>>> they won't be such an ass to the next person they see with a book
>>> right up against their face.
>>> I get the drug one because I squint.
>>>
>>> The more that people understand about the different levels of
>>> blindness and how we can all do things with our accommodations, the
>>> more likely they will be to hire us when we apply for jobs. So yes,
>>> unfortunately it falls upon us to educate people.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Steve and all,
>>>>
>>>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my
>>>> questions more to this email list.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator
>>>> of the blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life.
>>>> I would rather be able to go about living my life without the
>>>> constant interruptions and interference by sighted people. I do not
>>>> want to have to explain to some stranger standing with me on the
>>>> street corner waiting to cross the street how much eyesight I have
>>>> or how I am able to cross the street as a blind person. I do not
>>>> want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am blind or
>>>> legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of eyesight
>>>> to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has, the
>>>> more likely a person is able to perform the task. And I know this
>>>> one was not mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want
>>>> strangers grabbing my arm thinking I am in need of assistance when
>>>> I am just going about the normal business of my life. I just never
>>>> really know what to say to these people in some two second
>>>> interaction with them to be able to fully answer their curiosity,
>>>> or to get them to leave me alone.
>>>>
>>>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these
>>>> kinds of questions from strangers, and could provide some
>>>> suggestions as to how I could go about dealing with these kinds of
>>>> people in my life. However, based on the responses I have received
>>>> thus far, it would seem as though most people on this list have not
>>>> encountered these kinds of questions in their lives, or believe
>>>> there is some big distinction between being legally blind and
>>>> blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I
>>>> could go about dealing with this situation better so I do not look
>>>> like some stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I
>>>> really do not know what to say. I am sorry if this email list was
>>>> the wrong place for me to pose my question.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth,
>>>>>
>>>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy
>>>>> in the NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.
>>>>> It is completely normal for members of the public to not
>>>>> understand what we believe or even know about it. Also, the
>>>>> public, in my experience, has more trouble understanding blind
>>>>> people with some vision than those of us who are totally blind.
>>>>> They do think that the more vision one has the better off one is.
>>>>> What I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with
>>>>> low vision than it is for me because they are so often told and
>>>>> almost forced to struggle with the little vision they have rather
>>>>> than to learn how to do things other ways.
>>>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so
>>>>> when they meet someone who can obviously see a little, they are
>>>>> sometimes even a little suspicious. All of this is pretty normal.
>>>>> Our philosophy is something we try to teach people, it is not
>>>>> something everyone knows already.
>>>>>
>>>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can
>>>>> determine.
>>>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of
>>>>> us to some degree. Just because someone decides they are not
>>>>> going to represent the blind doesn't stop them from doing just
>>>>> that because the public determines how they get their information
>>>>> not each of us. We all need to keep working to change this, but
>>>>> it is what it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson\
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>>>>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I even
>>>>>>> answer a question that I really do not know how to answer
>>>>>>> myself?
>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort
>>>>>>> of answer with a stranger I am most likely never going to see
>>>>>>> again? I do not know why strangers are asking me if I am blind
>>>>>>> or legally blind except to figure out how much I can see or not
>>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when
>>>>>>> the NFB teaches that blind people are really no different than
>>>>>>> sighted people, and with the right tools and attitudes, we can
>>>>>>> do pretty much anything that a sighted person can do. If these
>>>>>>> beliefs are true, then what difference does it make as to how
>>>>>>> much I can see or not see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they
>>>>>>> are trying to imply that I must have some sight because how
>>>>>>> could a person be able to function without any sight. It is
>>>>>>> almost like people are trying to tell me that the more eyesight
>>>>>>> a person has the better off they are in life. How exactly am I
>>>>>>> suppose to deal with these kinds of questions when my encounter
>>>>>>> with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not deal
>>>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is
>>>>>>> the wrong thing, and I really do not know how to briefly
>>>>>>> describe what I can and cannot see, or even wish to describe it
>>>>>>> in the first place? I would give a specific example of how I
>>>>>>> encountered this situation from the other day, but I am afraid
>>>>>>> it would only spear the conversation away from the real heart of
>>>>>>> the issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with
>>>>>>> lately. So I was just interested in how other people deal with
>>>>>>> these kinds of questions from other people in their lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
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