[nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Mon Dec 30 17:47:29 UTC 2013

Hi all,

Thanks, Sandra.  I have started writing something down along the lines
of a script and like that idea.  I am 20 now, but I was 16 and 17 when
I met her and tried to help her think more positively.

I understand that some may not feel comfortable with some of the
secondary topics that have been raised on this thread, and I did not
know these would come up.  I wrote for advice on what I felt was a
pretty serious issue and didn't know that the topics would offshoot as
they had.  I think what Jedi was asking was that the personal stuff
move somewhere else rather than stop entirely.  It can be pretty
shocking to open an email asking for advice on how to handle a topic
like I have discussed and finding some personal information that is
not related to the topic at hand.  At the least, it would clear up
confusion by keeping the conversation on the thread relevant as we are
supposed to do on the list.  I'm all for open communication and think
people should be able to discuss what they want amongst themselves,
but that does not mean this topic and the others have to take place on
the same discussion thread for the sake of clarity and so people can
get what they expect when they click on an email with a particular
subject line.

On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hi, Sandra,
>
>          I'm in to keeping this thread open until it is no longer
> needed. PM 12/29/2013, Sandra Gayer wrote:
>>Hello Car,
>>I hope Sandy wasn't referring to me as my name is Sandra. I never
>>liked shortened forms much, hee hee!
>>
>>You raise a good point by suggesting Kaiti's nuisance caller should be
>>given some love, care and attention. I think we can agree that if the
>>caller gets positive reinforcement, she will keep calling. If she
>>receives negative reinforcement, this will fan the flames and she will
>>keep calling. The best way is to keep tone of voice, words spoken as
>>well as vocal and physical mannerisms nutral while speaking to her.
>>Kaiti reached out to this list for help and advice to stop this
>>person's calls and, (if we want to do any good at all),  our primary
>>aim should be to help Kaiti achieve this. I agree that the caller
>>wants and needs lots of TLC but this is not Kaiti's responsibility.
>>Why should it fall to Kaiti and her friend to provide this girl with
>>the emotional support network she needs when she has a family and can
>>use the services designed for this? If she can pick up a phone, she
>>can use a crisis line instead of treating other vulnerable people as a
>>crisis line substitute.
>>
>>Kaiti, I think your patience with this girl and your supportiveness
>>have been admirable. I'm glad what we're saying is giving you ideas to
>>think about and here are just a couple more to throw in: Pretending to
>>be someone else or lying about being asleep etc won't help you. She
>>will pick up on all this even if she can't interpret it well enough to
>>understand what you're doing. She will feel uncertain at the very
>>least. We have to ask ourselves what she does with this uncertainty.
>>She will either be upset by it, intrigued or excited. This will result
>>in her continuing to call as all these emotions will act as
>>distractions or fans to her flames. Try not to let her talk and talk
>>uninterrupted. Maybe she isn't getting the time and space to talk at
>>home or at school and she is using you and your friend to provide her
>>with the support she doesn't have at home. This is something else
>>helplines are designed for and are by no means your responsibility.
>>You seam like a lovely girl and this may go against your good manners
>>but when you and she start speaking, interrupt her with your prepared
>>script, (if you decide to use one). With or without a script,
>>interrupt her with something along the lines of the ideas already
>>given to you or with something you come up with yourself. Either way,
>>it's another component of the conversation no longer open to her which
>>will help close the channel between you, as it were.
>>
>>Did you say in your last email that you're sixteen? I didn't realise
>>you're so young and that makes it even more important that your
>>emotional wellbeing doesn't suffer as the result of these calls.
>>
>>Someone asked earlier if we could stop this thread because he or she
>>doesn't want to hear about private life matters. NB, this is not a
>>chat room, this is an email list with multiple threads which you can
>>choose to read or not and I suggest we keep this thread open until the
>>issue is resolved. Is that alright with everyone else?
>>
>>It's count down to New Year and I hope everyone enjoys it!
>>Sandra.
>>
>>On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Good evening, Sandy,
>> >
>> > Or, you could try projecting love and patience to this girl for, you
>> > hafta imagine a cold, non reaction is what she's used to receiving.
>> > Doesn't it continue to seem that this girl is reaching out, looking
>> > for a shoulder to cry on? Can't we be human once in a whiole?
>> > for today, Car
>> >
>> > 2013, Sandra Gayer wrote:
>> >>Hello Kaiti,
>> >>I'm glad you're thinking positively about the advice given through
>> >>this list. It's worth adding that, when you or members of your family
>> >>speak to her again, keep signs of distress or pleasure out of your
>> >>voices and mannerisms. If she hears signs of your good mood, it will
>> >>act as a distraction from her own fears, giving her an emotional
>> >>reason to keep calling you. If she hears stress and anxiety from you,
>> >>it will feed her own fears, giving her an emotional reason to keep
>> >>calling you.
>> >>
>> >>We have suggested you recommend crisis lines, web based emotional
>> >>support services  and therapy to this girl. However, all of this is
>> >>clearly taking its toll on you and if you need emotional support
>> >>yourself, don't hesitate to avail of any available service. They are
>> >>open to anyone who needs them at any time. You have as much right to
>> >>support as anyone else. Even helpline volunteers need regular support
>> >>to deal with what they encounter.
>> >>
>> >>Very best wishes,
>> >>Sandra.
>> >>
>> >>On 12/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hi Melissa,
>> >> >
>> >> > The NFB Philosophy part came from my attempts to try to help her see
>> >> > that being blind is not the end of the world.  I think a lot of
>> >> > these
>> >> > issues are related to very low self-esteem in regards to being
>> >> > someone
>> >> > with a visual impairment, so that was what I tried to do to help her
>> >> > in the beginning.
>> >> >
>> >> > The whole thing just seemed so odd... The program we both attended
>> >> > was
>> >> > just a weekend thing, so by meeting this girl once I wouldn't even
>> >> > put
>> >> > her into the category of being an acquaintance.  It has been really
>> >> > difficult for me and my other friend to figure out why she has
>> >> > chosen
>> >> > to continually call us because we only were with her for a day and a
>> >> > half or so.
>> >> >
>> >> > I always make an effort to help and reach out to other students who
>> >> > are having trouble with their acceptance of blindness when I meet
>> >> > them, but my attempts just didn't work with her and there is nothing
>> >> > more I can do, especially since I'm not even home most of the time.
>> >> > I
>> >> > appreciate the sound advice I've been given; sometimes that can be
>> >> > very good to hear, even in logical situations.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 12/28/13, Laurel and Stockard <laurel.stockard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> You know, seriously, if she's calling your house and bothering your
>> >> >> family,
>> >> >> and her own parents might not be aware, then call her parents and
>> >> >> talk
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> them. Tell them what happens when she calls, and that you wish her
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> call any more. I believe somebody said something to this effect
>> >> >> already,
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> I agree. This way you're doing 3 things, you're in no uncertain
>> >> >> terms
>> >> >> telling her to stop bothering you, you're also getting her some
>> >> >> help
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> form of letting her parents know what's going on, and they are in a
>> >> >> much
>> >> >> better position to actually make her get help, and you in a round
>> >> >> about
>> >> >> way
>> >> >> are showing that you care. You care enough to let somebody else in
>> >> >> her
>> >> >> life
>> >> >> know what's happening so that she can get help.
>> >> >> jmo
>> >> >> Laurel
>> >> >> On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Yea true.  I've had some problems like that in the past whare I
>> >> >>> had
>> >> >>> people
>> >> >>> calling me that I didn't want to talk to anymore.  I tried to
>> >> >>> contact
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> police and all of that and they just say just block her number.
>> >> >>> They
>> >> >>> won't
>> >> >>> do anything.  Especially since they have more serious issues to
>> >> >>> deal
>> >> >>> with.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C.
>> >> >>> Bray
>> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:49 AM
>> >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> >> >>> advice?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Dave,
>> >> >>> It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially
>> >> >>> dangerous
>> >> >>> for Kaiti .
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and
>> >> >>> placed
>> >> >>> under
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is
>> >> >>> beginning
>> >> >>> to feel in over her head.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to
>> >> >>> be
>> >> >>> firm.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Ian
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
>> >> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> >> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> >> >>> advice?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> :I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's
>> >> >>> doing.
>> >> >>> I
>> >> >>> mean
>> >> >>> : it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.
>> >> >>> Authorities
>> >> >>> : won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >> >>> Lillie
>> >> >>> : Pennington
>> >> >>> : Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
>> >> >>> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> >>> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to
>> >> >>> work...
>> >> >>> advice?
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with
>> >> >>> her
>> >> >>> parents
>> >> >>> : or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme
>> >> >>> option
>> >> >>> but
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> you
>> >> >>> : may need to take such actions.
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton
>> >> >>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> >> >>> : wrote:
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > Hi,
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it
>> >> >>> made
>> >> >>> her
>> >> >>> : > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm
>> >> >>> not
>> >> >>> : > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff,
>> >> >>> but
>> >> >>> : > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She
>> >> >>> had
>> >> >>> some
>> >> >>> : > issues with teachers in high school because she said they
>> >> >>> didn't
>> >> >>> take
>> >> >>> : > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and
>> >> >>> she
>> >> >>> : > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made
>> >> >>> would
>> >> >>> stop
>> >> >>> : > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was
>> >> >>> crying,
>> >> >>> so
>> >> >>> : > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.
>> >> >>> Then
>> >> >>> : > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.
>> >> >>> This
>> >> >>> was
>> >> >>> : > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually
>> >> >>> talked
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> : > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a
>> >> >>> boyfriend,
>> >> >>> : > so I thought things would be going better.
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see
>> >> >>> how
>> >> >>> : > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice
>> >> >>> since
>> >> >>> she
>> >> >>> : > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the
>> >> >>> past.
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of
>> >> >>> blindness
>> >> >>> : > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've
>> >> >>> done
>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>> : > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she
>> >> >>> does.
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> : >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I
>> >> >>> have
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> : >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to
>> >> >>> relationships.
>> >> >>> I
>> >> >>> : >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit
>> >> >>> of
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> : >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.
>> >> >>> I've
>> >> >>> tried
>> >> >>> : >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get
>> >> >>> them
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> : >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to
>> >> >>> talking
>> >> >>> : >> about it.  So.
>> >> >>> : >>
>> >> >>> : >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> : >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >> >>> Beth
>> >> >>> : >> Taurasi
>> >> >>> : >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>> >> >>> : >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : _______________________________________________
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Kaiti
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Soprano Singer
>> >>  www.sandragayer.com
>> >>
>> >>Broadcast Presenter
>> >>
>> >>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>> >>
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-- 
Kaiti