[nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille

Sun Feb 3 12:36:14 UTC 2013

Good morning, Chris, and ALL,

An understanding of print letters I'm sure, has 
its origins in my having this puzzle as a kid, 
made of wood,  with letters.  I would put 
the  puzzle together, constantly. This early 
exercise surely fostered an understanding of the 
shapes of letters. I don't hand write however, or at least legibly.
Car:
>Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about
>reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I
>have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the
>shapes of the print letters
 Never thought it mattered to me, but
>maybe it does.
>
>Chris Nusbaum
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sophie,
> >  Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere.  Reading them
> > is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy
> > sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin.
> >
> > On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling
> >> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought
> >> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was
> >> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that
> >> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire
> >> know-         how of phonics, writing and  spelling on sound, alone?
> >> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille
> >> reading, although I resist such a classification since my
> >> understanding of the code endures.
> >> Car Damoulakis wrote:
> >>> Hi Sophie and Carly
> >>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for
> >>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use
> >>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio
> >>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that,
> >>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even now
> >>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what
> >>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't
> >>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an
> >>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just
> >>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they
> >>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other
> >>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use
> >>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and
> >>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for
> >>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the rest,
> >>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do forget.
> >>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in
> >>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the
> >>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres
> >>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort
> >>> of abstract sounds?
> >>> Ari
> >>>
> >>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state
> >>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one)
> >>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my
> >>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll
> >>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille
> >>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because
> >>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't
> >>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup,
> >>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning
> >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must
> >>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long
> >>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print
> >>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more.
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com
> >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200
> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi everyone
> >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and
> >>>> sad. I
> >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have
> >>>> a
> >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and
> >>>> audio,
> >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I
> >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and
> >>>> not
> >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but
> >>>> paper. I
> >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and
> >>>> read
> >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a
> >>>> language or
> >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws
> >>>> etc, but
> >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a
> >>>> lovely
> >>>> thing!
> >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much
> >>>> you
> >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was
> >>>> looking
> >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to
> >>>> help
> >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys
> >>>> have
> >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400
> >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a
> >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he
> >>>> couldn't
> >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact
> >>>> that
> >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in
> >>>> braille.
> >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal
> >>>> books
> >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have
> >>>> to
> >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why
> >>>> these
> >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print
> >>>> the
> >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I
> >>>> don't
> >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here
> >>>> even if
> >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about
> >>>> 6
> >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible
> >>>> prices
> >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an
> >>>> electronic
> >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and
> >>>> tragic
> >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just
> >>>> aren't
> >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point
> >>>> if
> >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys
> >>>> have
> >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really
> >>>> want in
> >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the
> >>>> prices
> >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to
> >>>> read
> >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible!
> >>>> Ari
> >>>>
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> >>>>
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