[nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille

Sun Feb 3 20:48:29 UTC 2013

Hi everyone,
I think the it is very important to be able to read braille. It would
never be acceptable to have the majority of sighted people be
illerate; therefore, it should be the same for blind people.
Diagrams in a textbook are very important (especially for math and
science) so I do think it is beneficial to have descriptions in an
audio book.
I also can read raised print although my writing ability is not as
good. I find this useful for reading raised or engraved print signs.
Also, I find this useful for interpreting documents whcih I have
scanned. In certain fonts, some letter can look similar and be
confused by the scanner.
Danielle

On 2/3/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris,
> The more and more I've traveled to new places, I've realized that reading
> tactile print letters Is very useful, though not strictly necessary skill.
> You can get by without it, as I have done, but it sure helps.
> Jedi,
> I know this might sound silly, but I have a much easier time with raised
> print than I do with engrave print. Unfortunately, I see engraved print just
> as much, if not more, than raised print. Do you have any practical
> suggestions for me other than simple practice?
> Best,
> Kirt
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 3, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Good morning, Chris, and ALL,
>>
>> An understanding of print letters I'm sure, has its origins in my having
>> this puzzle as a kid, made of wood,  with letters.  I would put the
>> puzzle together, constantly. This early exercise surely fostered an
>> understanding of the shapes of letters. I don't hand write however, or at
>> least legibly.
>> Car:
>>> Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about
>>> reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I
>>> have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the
>>> shapes of the print letters… Never thought it mattered to me, but
>>> maybe it does.
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Sophie,
>>> >  Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere.  Reading them
>>> > is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy
>>> > sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin.
>>> >
>>> > On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> >> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling
>>> >> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought
>>> >> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was
>>> >> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that
>>> >> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire
>>> >> know-         how of phonics, writing and  spelling on sound, alone?
>>> >> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille
>>> >> reading, although I resist such a classification since my
>>> >> understanding of the code endures.
>>> >> Car Damoulakis wrote:
>>> >>> Hi Sophie and Carly
>>> >>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for
>>> >>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use
>>> >>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio
>>> >>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that,
>>> >>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even
>>> >>> now
>>> >>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what
>>> >>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't
>>> >>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an
>>> >>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just
>>> >>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they
>>> >>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other
>>> >>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use
>>> >>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and
>>> >>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for
>>> >>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the
>>> >>> rest,
>>> >>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do
>>> >>> forget.
>>> >>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in
>>> >>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the
>>> >>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres
>>> >>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort
>>> >>> of abstract sounds?
>>> >>> Ari
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state
>>> >>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one)
>>> >>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my
>>> >>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll
>>> >>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille
>>> >>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because
>>> >>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't
>>> >>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup,
>>> >>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning
>>> >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must
>>> >>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long
>>> >>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print
>>> >>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com
>>> >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200
>>> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Hi everyone
>>> >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and
>>> >>>> sad. I
>>> >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and
>>> >>>> audio,
>>> >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I
>>> >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and
>>> >>>> not
>>> >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but
>>> >>>> paper. I
>>> >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and
>>> >>>> read
>>> >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a
>>> >>>> language or
>>> >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws
>>> >>>> etc, but
>>> >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a
>>> >>>> lovely
>>> >>>> thing!
>>> >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much
>>> >>>> you
>>> >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was
>>> >>>> looking
>>> >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to
>>> >>>> help
>>> >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys
>>> >>>> have
>>> >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400
>>> >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a
>>> >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he
>>> >>>> couldn't
>>> >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact
>>> >>>> that
>>> >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in
>>> >>>> braille.
>>> >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal
>>> >>>> books
>>> >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why
>>> >>>> these
>>> >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I
>>> >>>> don't
>>> >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here
>>> >>>> even if
>>> >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about
>>> >>>> 6
>>> >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible
>>> >>>> prices
>>> >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an
>>> >>>> electronic
>>> >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and
>>> >>>> tragic
>>> >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just
>>> >>>> aren't
>>> >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point
>>> >>>> if
>>> >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys
>>> >>>> have
>>> >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really
>>> >>>> want in
>>> >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the
>>> >>>> prices
>>> >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to
>>> >>>> read
>>> >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible!
>>> >>>> Ari
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>>> for nabs-l:
>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>> >>>> r%40gmail.com
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >>>> for
>>> >>>> nabs-l:
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aridamoulakis%40gmail.com
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >>> nabs-l:
>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>