[nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille

Sun Feb 3 19:53:12 UTC 2013

Hi,
I deal with engraved print same way if I cannot see it.
I touch it letter by letter and feel each letter systematically. Typically 
from top to bottom.
I then  follow the zig zag lines if there are any. Letters  x, y, and z have 
diagonal lines in them.

I think its much easier to ask someone for the information or read you the 
sign if there is someone around; seems more efficient and convenient to me.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kirt
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 11:17 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille

Chris,
The more and more I've traveled to new places, I've realized that reading 
tactile print letters Is very useful, though not strictly necessary skill. 
You can get by without it, as I have done, but it sure helps.
Jedi,
I know this might sound silly, but I have a much easier time with raised 
print than I do with engrave print. Unfortunately, I see engraved print just 
as much, if not more, than raised print. Do you have any practical 
suggestions for me other than simple practice?
Best,
Kirt

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 3, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:

> Good morning, Chris, and ALL,
>
> An understanding of print letters I'm sure, has its origins in my having 
> this puzzle as a kid, made of wood,  with letters.  I would put the 
> puzzle together, constantly. This early exercise surely fostered an 
> understanding of the shapes of letters. I don't hand write however, or at 
> least legibly.
> Car:
>> Do you mean braille signs or print signs? If you're talking about
>> reading print signs, I know some blind people who can do it, but I
>> have never been able to figure it out. Maybe I just need to learn the
>> shapes of the print letters… Never thought it mattered to me, but
>> maybe it does.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Sophie,
>> >  Yes, at least where I am, those signs are everywhere.  Reading them
>> > is a skill I'm only starting to try and figure out; it's very handy
>> > sometimes, as I've found out to my chagrin.
>> >
>> > On 2/2/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> Hi, Ari, Although braille is no longer my lover, for reasons falling
>> >> well beyond my control, I still picture in my mind how the word ought
>> >> to look to my finger and, that usually helps in spelling. When I was
>> >> a strong braille reader, it was absolutely inconceivable to me that
>> >> people would refuse learning braille, basing all their entire
>> >> know-         how of phonics, writing and  spelling on sound, alone?
>> >> Now I guess, i am obligated to join the ranks of the non-braille
>> >> reading, although I resist such a classification since my
>> >> understanding of the code endures.
>> >> Car Damoulakis wrote:
>> >>> Hi Sophie and Carly
>> >>> Its not a rant Sophie, its absolutely true. I have seen at uni for
>> >>> example, there was a person who never learned braille. He does use
>> >>> jaws at uni, but he can't spell properly because when you use audio
>> >>> you obviously aren't learning individual lettres. It isn't just that,
>> >>> but because I learned braille from young, what I love is that even 
>> >>> now
>> >>> when I'm writing, I don't know how to explain, but I visualise what
>> >>> I'm typing in braille, which I really like. If a blind person doesn't
>> >>> learn braille and just works on audio, how do they imagine what an
>> >>> alphabet looks like. For them, when they type an l, do they then just
>> >>> somehow think of it as this sound, that is obviously assuming they
>> >>> haven't learned the shapes of the lettres in sighted or some other
>> >>> way. For me unfortunately, I must confess that since I never use
>> >>> sighted writing much I'm always forgetting what many lettres and
>> >>> numbers look like. The only ones I obviously don't forget are for
>> >>> example things I use in daily life like to sign my name, but the 
>> >>> rest,
>> >>> even though I've learned them and felt their shapes, I just do 
>> >>> forget.
>> >>> But I can't actually understand, if it is true that blind people in
>> >>> the US from birth now aren't even learning braille, how does the
>> >>> teacher even start teaching them how to read and write, how lettres
>> >>> fit together to make words, or for those people are lettres just sort
>> >>> of abstract sounds?
>> >>> Ari
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2/1/13, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state
>> >>>> library for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one)
>> >>>> or from the national library in Utah. That's where I got all my
>> >>>> braille books before I sarted using my braillenote. While I'll
>> >>>> say that electronic reading is a lot more convenient (braille
>> >>>> books are so heavy and clunky) I do appreciate braille. Because
>> >>>> electronics can break. I think that's what a lot of people don't
>> >>>> realize. And if electronics break and you don't know as a backup,
>> >>>> you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not learning
>> >>>> braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must
>> >>>> learn print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long
>> >>>> rant, but the bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print
>> >>>> book only costs $20-30, braille shouldn't cost that much more.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com
>> >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200
>> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi everyone
>> >>>> I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and
>> >>>> sad. I
>> >>>> can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and
>> >>>> audio,
>> >>>> and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I
>> >>>> actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but
>> >>>> paper. I
>> >>>> love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and
>> >>>> read
>> >>>> it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a
>> >>>> language or
>> >>>> even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws
>> >>>> etc, but
>> >>>> I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a
>> >>>> lovely
>> >>>> thing!
>> >>>> Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was
>> >>>> looking
>> >>>> on the internet for whether there are braille books available to
>> >>>> help
>> >>>> me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400
>> >>>> dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a
>> >>>> friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he
>> >>>> couldn't
>> >>>> believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact
>> >>>> that
>> >>>> maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in
>> >>>> braille.
>> >>>> But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal
>> >>>> books
>> >>>> you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why
>> >>>> these
>> >>>> organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I
>> >>>> don't
>> >>>> know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here
>> >>>> even if
>> >>>> I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about
>> >>>> 6
>> >>>> months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible
>> >>>> prices
>> >>>> like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an
>> >>>> electronic
>> >>>> version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and
>> >>>> tragic
>> >>>> and I think I can now understand why many people there just
>> >>>> aren't
>> >>>> bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point
>> >>>> if
>> >>>> you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> a great library but what happens if there are books you really
>> >>>> want in
>> >>>> braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the
>> >>>> prices
>> >>>> that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to
>> >>>> read
>> >>>> 1 book in braille this is just so terrible!
>> >>>> Ari
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>
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