[nabs-l] Extended Time

Wed Feb 6 22:35:29 UTC 2013

Kirt,
I'm saying what might happen in some situations and why I argue extended 
time is needed; I think communication with a reader and hearing it takes 
slightly longer. As to the method of taking a test, no a reader doesn't need 
to repeat every question or repeat it if I'm sure I know the answer.
But if I am not sure I eliminate two answers and chose from the other two; 
that is what all test takers do and for me it takes some repetetion.
No, I do not always use all  extended time; it may depend on the class.
But I think it’s a good accomodation to have if its needed.
For instance I did not need extended time for my intro to business final or 
my
intro to computer concepts final.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:58 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time

Ashley,
  I know this might not be completely rellivant, but I'm curious where
you get the idea that everybody takes tests in the way you described,
because I sure as hell don't.  For me, if I know the answer, there's
no point in re-reading all the answers over again, eliminating two
answers that don't work, than choosing the one I already know is right
from the two remaining choices.  If I'm reasonably sure I know what
the answer is, I don't see a need for a reader to repeat anything.  Of
course, if I'm not sure and I have to guess, I'll try and eliminate
answers that I don't think are right; similarly, if I'm confused about
a question, or any answers, or I forget something, I have no qualms
about asking a reader to repeat it for me.  But, more often than not,
that doesn't happen.  I just did a hundred question multiple-choice
test with a reader a few days ago and I think I maybe had her re-read
things on maybe 15 of the questions.  I'm just curious why you'd take
extra time agonizing over a question if you're already pretty sure
what the answer is?
  Best,
Kirt

On 2/6/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ashley,
> I understand, I've seen it exactly the way you are talking about before.
> And, honestly, figuring it out never slowed me down more than like five or
> 10 seconds. There are a couple ways Josquin read it, depending on the 
> quiz,
> but, honestly, once I listen to the four answers, or financers, or 
> whatever,
> it's not that hard to remember which one goes with which radio button. The
> ones that are slightly trickier for me, though still very possible within
> the normal time frame, are the matching ones where you have like 20
> different statements, and you have to match each statement with the person
> who said it, or something like that. Often times, those have been set up 
> for
> me like combo boxes, so it takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds extra on each
> question to make sure I am picking the right thing. But, as I said,
> listening to jaws At 70% of its maximum speed, while only meeting to 
> really
> confusing questions occasionally, kind of offsets that extra amount of 
> time.
> But, I also recognize that is a skill I have acquired through 10+ years of
> practice, and it is definitely not practical for everybody.
> Best,
> Kirt
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 6, 2013, at 1:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Kirt,
>> I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for
>> radio buttons.
>> Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is there
>> are four buttons for four choices per answer.
>> I hear all of the choices and then go up line by line to select my 
>> choice.
>> I don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me
>> to the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to
>> explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each
>> answer.
>> I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read the
>> answer but its not like that.
>> Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the quiz
>> with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading 
>> level
>> it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3 
>> for
>> heading 3.
>>
>> I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say
>> question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by
>> line through the questions. Maybe I should do that.
>>
>>
>> I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm hoping to get used to it and
>> find short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted
>> if I feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in
>> class quizzes though.
>>
>> Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor.
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time
>>
>> Ashley,
>> I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be 
>> the
>> case in my personal experiences with jaws.  You can press are, from the
>> start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the first
>> question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down.  And, at least
>> for me, once I figured out how Jaws Associates radio buttons with
>> particular question answers, on whatever quiz I'm taking, it's been 
>> really
>> easy to just apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am
>> making sense. For me, personally, the only online assignments that 
>> warrant
>> extra time are the ones with lots of images that need to be described by
>> somebody else. If an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text,
>> which many of them are, I usually finish well within the allotted time. 
>> In
>> fact, I have noticed, my screen reader reads things to me faster than 
>> many
>> sided people read. While I don't comprehend as much as I do with braille,
>> this is definitely an advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most
>> people don't have.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" 
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Arielle,
>>> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send a
>>> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow.
>>> I cannot remember whether I used  extended time all the time in high
>>> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI
>>> as they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I
>>> needed to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time
>>> for me since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort
>>> of acted as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams.
>>>
>>> I think ideally that  extended time and accomodations should be given on
>>> a case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and
>>> not others.
>>> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations across
>>> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors.
>>>
>>> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of
>>> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since
>>> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it.
>>> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe math
>>> if you beg for it.
>>>
>>> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its
>>> multiple choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test
>>> taker, I read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic
>>> the  best answer.
>>> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line by
>>> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer.
>>> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to ensure
>>> they circled the right one.
>>>
>>> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I
>>> need to scroll back up to check my answers.
>>> I'm confused as to what radio button goes
>>> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the
>>> same line but jaws isn't reading like that.
>>> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz
>>> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading to
>>> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much.
>>>
>>> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay formats
>>> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in 
>>> the
>>> many cases I do need it.
>>>
>>> Now, I  just hope I can get
>>> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed for
>>> me to get extended time.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about
>>> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not
>>> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for
>>> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking
>>> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have
>>> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and
>>> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra
>>> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology
>>> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether
>>> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or
>>> for Braille or large print tests.
>>> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I
>>> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully
>>> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot
>>> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad
>>> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use
>>> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and
>>> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time
>>> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel
>>> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that
>>> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted
>>> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to
>>> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille
>>> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it
>>> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds
>>> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille
>>> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily*
>>> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the
>>> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who
>>> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the
>>> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing
>>> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I
>>> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job
>>> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation
>>> and employment myself.
>>> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just
>>> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is
>>> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it
>>> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions
>>> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when
>>> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students
>>> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why
>>> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill
>>> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the
>>> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably
>>> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading
>>> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with
>>> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more
>>> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as
>>> sightedd colleagues.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
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