[nabs-l] Extended Time

Thu Feb 7 23:05:33 UTC 2013

Ari,

Looks like you have differing perspectives on this issue to consider.
I love online test-taking because it gives me independence.  I don't
have to schedule a time in the testing center and can just access the
information and complete the forms from my classroom or dorm if it's a
take-home quiz.  I guess the amount of accessibility your college
provides would be a variable of consideration here, but if they do a
decent job and the Sakai or blackboard site you're using has code that
follows basic accessibility guidelines there shouldn't be anything
visual that would serve as an obstacle to keep you from doing your
work on your own.

Carlie, don't take this as being critical because I don't mean to
sound harsh, and usually I actually agree with you on most things, but
I guess it's a matter of philosophy too.  I personally don't like to
ask other people for help unless I truly do need it.  I'm not one of
those people who dreads, hates, or avoids asking for help, but I do
like to do everything I can independently and don't see the necessity
of getting another person to help you take your test.  To me it feels
like that was something I needed in elementary or middle school but
now as a college student I don't need that anymore.

On 2/7/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Good morning, Ari,
>
>          Personally, I reject all that On-line
> test taking, preferring instead human inner
> action. I don't feel it saying anything less of
> me to call on my fellllow humans to, in the
> absence of my own visual capabilities, to do the visual stuff, for me.
> I mean, aren't people upon this earth to help each other, no mater how?
> This, is to say that personally, I don't mind
> calling on my fellow humans to do the ocular
> seeing for me, just as I would be totall obliged
> if another  person needed me to fulfill some
> sensual imput that was within my capacity, and not ther's.6/2013, you
> wrote:
>>I am curious to know about this online testing thing, because it seems
>>as if you guys are mostly all doing it? What I mean is, what is the
>>software you are doing the test on? We use moodle here and once they
>>had an online test for something or other but the unit said the online
>>testing at my uni isn't accessible. It is also very interesting to see
>>how you guys do online tests in class, I suppose its all in the
>>digital revolution. Unfortunately here I suppose many students can't
>>afford the technology or the professors don't trust online tests, in
>>any case, everyone still uses the old pen and paper, even for multiple
>>choice quizzes, so we then have to do it orally with a tutor.
>>Ari
>>Ari
>>
>>On 2/6/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > Kirt,
>> > I'm glad that works for you. Yes I've heard of the quic hot key R for
>> > radio
>> > buttons.
>> > Yes, it takes you to the first radio button. But what I'm saying is
>> > there
>> > are four buttons for four choices per answer.
>> > I hear all of the choices and then go up line
>> by line to select my choice. I
>> > don't thinking pressing shift R will work because it will just take me
>> > to
>> > the last radio button, but I need to see the whole line. Its hard to
>> > explain, what I mean is I need to see what radio button goes with each
>> > answer.
>> > I wish jaws said something like B radio button checked and then read
>> > the
>> > answer but its not like that.
>> > Maybe our blackboard is different. I think finding the start of the
>> > quiz
>> > with H for heading is my best bet and once I figure out what heading
>> > level
>> > it is, I can use the number heading for the next ones; for instance, 3
>> > for
>> > heading 3.
>> >
>> > I feel a reader could give me the info I need by scrolling up to say
>> > question 4 and reading me what I selected rather than me going line by
>> > line
>> > through the questions. Maybe I should do that.
>> >
>> >
>> > I haven't had online quizzes before so I'm
>> hoping to get used to it and find
>> > short cut keys that work. Still IMO, extended time should be granted if
>> > I
>> > feel its needed. My professor will have to give me extra time in class
>> > quizzes though.
>> >
>> > Perhaps my disability counselor will talk to the professor.
>> > Ashley
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Kirt
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 1:50 PM
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extended Time
>> >
>> > Ashley,
>> > I don't mean to be contrary, but I have found quite the opposite to be
>> > the
>> > case in my personal experiences with jaws.  You can press are, from the
>> > start of the page, to go directly to the first radio button on the
>> > first
>> > question… It will save you a whole bunch of arrowing down.  And, at
>> > least
>> > for me, once I figured out how Jaws
>> Associates radio buttons with particular
>> > question answers, on whatever quiz I'm
>> taking, it's been really easy to just
>> > apply that pattern to the rest of the quiz… Hopefully, I am making
>> > sense.
>> > For me, personally, the only online assignments that warrant extra time
>> > are
>> > the ones with lots of images that need to be described by somebody else.
>> > If
>> > an online quiz, or test, or assignment is all text, which many of them
>> > are,
>> > I usually finish well within the allotted time. In fact, I have noticed,
>> > my
>> > screen reader reads things to me faster than
>> many sided people read. While I
>> > don't comprehend as much as I do with braille, this is definitely an
>> > advantage for me sometimes which, I daresay, most people don't have.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:34 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>> > <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Arielle,
>> >> Well I see your points. Extended time while we use braille could send
>> >> a
>> >> bad message I suppose that we're inherently slow.
>> >> I cannot remember whether I used  extended time all the time in high
>> >> school or not. I had a study hall period with my vision teacher, or TVI
>> >> as
>> >>
>> >> they're called. Here I finished any tests or in class assignments I
>> >> needed
>> >>
>> >> to for the day or worked on homework. This was very valuable time for
>> >> me
>> >> since I struggled with some spatial concepts too and my TVI sort of
>> >> acted
>> >> as a tutor for math as well and explained diagrams.
>> >>
>> >> I think ideally that  extended time and accomodations should be given
>> >> on a
>> >>
>> >> case by case basis. You may need some accomodations in one class and
>> >> not
>> >> others.
>> >> But that isn't how college works; they have to make accomodations
>> >> across
>> >> the board so you have one accomodation sheet for all professors.
>> >>
>> >> I feel that yes extended time is needed in college because of
>> >> the medium its taken in. I consider equal access to be braille since
>> >> sighted students read it; they do not have to hear it.
>> >> As you know, braille is not given to us in college except for maybe
>> >> math
>> >> if you beg for it.
>> >>
>> >> So, I think using jaws is slower than reading it in print. If its
>> >> multiple
>> >>
>> >> choice, I find I need to hear it twice because as with any test taker,
>> >> I
>> >> read it once and eliminate two answers and read it again to pic the
>> >> best
>> >> answer.
>> >> A sighted user clicks the correct button where as we have to go line
>> >> by
>> >> line and listen to the line and arrow up til finding the right answer.
>> >> If using a reader, I need them to repeat my answers sometimes to
>> >> ensure
>> >> they circled the right one.
>> >>
>> >> I am trying to get extended time for practice online quizzes because I
>> >> need to scroll back up to check my answers.
>> >> I'm confused as to what radio button goes
>> >> with what answer. I wish the Letter options of A, b, c, d were on the
>> >> same
>> >>
>> >> line but jaws isn't reading like that.
>> >> Not to mention that I use a minute or two to find where the darn quiz
>> >> begins! Yes, I do use the quick navigation keys such as H for heading
>> >> to
>> >> help but when there are lots of headings this doesn't help too much.
>> >>
>> >> I find that other forms of tests such as short answer and essay
>> >> formats
>> >> take me less time. I don't always use extended time. But its there in
>> >> the
>> >> many cases I do need it.
>> >>
>> >> Now, I  just hope I can get
>> >> extended time for the blackboard quiz. It has to be manually changed
>> >> for
>> >> me to get extended time.
>> >>
>> >> Ashley
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:57 PM
>> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extended Time
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >> The last post about using extra time on quizzes got me thinking about
>> >> why we automatically get extra time to take tests and whether or not
>> >> this is a good idea. I think the extra time is intended to correct for
>> >> any issues with our accommodations or technology that make test-taking
>> >> slower; for example, it might make sense to use extra time if we have
>> >> to have a scribe write an essay for us or if we are using a reader and
>> >> asking them to repeat things or read answer choices a few times. Extra
>> >> time also seems appropriate if we have a problem with technology
>> >> breaking, files not downloading correctly, etc. But I question whether
>> >> extra time is really appropriate for online quizzes, for example, or
>> >> for Braille or large print tests.
>> >> As a Braille reader I used extended time only on a few occasions and I
>> >> found that I only "needed" it when, deep down, I didn't fully
>> >> understand the material I was being tested on. This happened a lot
>> >> when I had tactile diagrams to interpret since I have always been bad
>> >> with spatial mapping and understanding tactile images. So I would use
>> >> the extra time to agonize over test questions I didn't understand and
>> >> then eventually guess an answer. I really don't think the extra time
>> >> was helpful for either my test performance or my learning and I feel
>> >> it only acted as a Band-Aid covering up the real issue which was that
>> >> I didn't know how to interpret tactile images. Had I not been granted
>> >> extended time this might have become a more pressing issue for me to
>> >> deal with back in high school. Similarly, I worry that when Braille
>> >> readers are automatically granted double time across the board, it
>> >> allows teachers to grow complacent with slower Braille-reading speeds
>> >> than is desirable and almost sets up the expectation that Braille
>> >> reading is inherently slow. It might be appropriate to *temporarily*
>> >> grant an individual student extended time while they are still in the
>> >> process of building Braille fluency, but granting it to everybody who
>> >> reads Braille is something that bothers me. I also question the
>> >> implication that blind students just do things slower and that nothing
>> >> can or should be done about it so just let them take extra time. I
>> >> don't need to tell you that extended time is not granted in the job
>> >> world and this is becoming more real for me as I approach graduation
>> >> and employment myself.
>> >> I'm not trying to belittle anybody who uses extended time. I am just
>> >> proposing that we reflect a little on what the extra time is
>> >> specifically meant to accomplish, why we use it and whether or not it
>> >> is actually helpful. I would propose that we make mindful decisions
>> >> about when to accept extended time and that we aim to use it only when
>> >> it is truly necessary and beneficial. In order to grow as students
>> >> progressing toward employment, I think we should also be aware of why
>> >> we are finding ourselves needing extra time and see if there are skill
>> >> issues we might be able to address so that we need it less in the
>> >> future. In my own case my weakness with tactile diagrams probably
>> >> won't impact me much on the job, but a weakness in Braille reading
>> >> speed or Web navigation is something that can be addressed with
>> >> training and practice and addressing it can make a person much more
>> >> competitive on the job, and able to get the job done as efficiently as
>> >> sightedd colleagues.
>> >> Best,
>> >> Arielle
>> >>
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-- 
Kaiti