[nabs-l] in class writing

Sun Jan 13 20:53:27 UTC 2013

Ashley,
  This message is going to be very strongly worded because this is a
very, very important issue to me.  However, I'm not trying to attack
you personally.  Please understand that, while I feel quite
passionately about this, I value and respect your decissions about
what works best for you personally.  This is not meant to be an ad
homonym argument, please don't take it as such.
  Now, that being said, I think that doing work outside of class (even
if you make note of the time constraints and accomodate for them, as
best you can), if that work is done by every other student in class
and extemporaneously, is wrong and unfair.  If part of the other
students' assignment is to write about a prompt they only receive at
the start of class, and finish that work by the end of class, you are
doing a very different assignment if you receive the prompt at the
same time everybody else does, humm and haw for the rest of the class
period (while giving the prompt time to digest in your head), go home
and, at your leisure within the next day or two, write the essay.  I
recognize that college is often unfair to us blind folks (I've been on
the receiving end of that, I know!), but that gives us no reason to be
unfair to our fellow students in turn.  This is especially true if the
prof grades his students on a curve; you could easily receive an
inflated grade be cause, as I just said, you've had significantly
extra time to think about the prompt.  I don't know about you, but my
writing is much better, usually, if I've had time to think about what
I'm writing before I put my metaphorical pen to metaphorical paper.
Since, often, the principal purpose of these assignments is to see how
well you can write off-the-cuff, without a few extra hours to think
about the prompt, I contend that you are taking an unfair advantage
over your fellow-students if you go home and do the assignment later.
The fairness in the rest of your college experience, or lack thereof,
should not even enter in to this particular equasion.
  That said, I recognize that acommodations may need to be made.  In
my humble opinion, if a flash drive isn't working and you have nothing
but an outdated notetaker, it should be reasonable for you to write in
class, under the same time constraints as every other student and
then, on your honor, e-mail the work you did during class to your
professor later, or print it off and hand it in the next day, or give
it to him on a silly floppy disk later, or whatever it is you have to
do.  As long as you are only giving the professor the work you did in
class, and as long as you don't edit it or revise it after class, it
seems fair for you to be able to hand it in later if there is truly no
other practical way.  My issue has nothing to do with turning your
work in later than other students (if that is truly the only realistic
solution, given your current technology), but it has everything to do
with actually doing your work after you've had a decent amount of time
for the prompt to sink in to your head if the other students were not
allowed that very beneficial luxury.
  Best,
Kirt

On 1/13/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Kirt,
> I started college before all this lovely technology. I used a notetaker but
>
> at that time we did not have USB drives; we had to save to floppy disks or
> Compact flash cards.
> I found college fast paced and hard. I sometimes went part time.
>
> I also took some writing assignments home to do and hand in the next class
> period. Back then, I don''t think emailing professors was as prevalent.
> Oh, ten years ago, the lovely blackboard which is semi accessible, did not
> exist!
> Like carley,  I just took note of the class time frame and did that amount
> at home.
>
> I still often have done this. I have trouble sometimes with my braille note
>
> accepting flash drives.
> I am going to try it again and hopefully find a flash drive it likes so I
> can hand the file to the professor if they agree to accept a flash drive.
>
> I suppose its not quite fair, but professors often suggest that. Its easy
> for them to receive my work electronically in email.
> If I send it to them the same day, as I often can do except if I have
> internet issues, they grade my work at the same time as other students. So
> its no additional work on their end. Now, with tests they grade mine
> separately as I take it at a different time  and location from other
> students in the testing office. So everyone gets their tests back and I get
>
> mine days later, usually.
>
> I won't even go into the fairness thing as I could write you a term paper on
>
> how unfair college
> treats blind students. We cannot secure the accomodations we are supposed to
>
> have under law via section 504 and The ADA.
> I ask professors for their slides and often don't get them at all or get
> them late after class rendering them quite ineffective; I need to see slides
>
> same day or next day after class while material is fresh in my head to
> render them useful. Sighted students read the slides in class.
> I have also attempted to acquire books in accessible formats and may not get
>
> this; so I make my own arrangements. I pay for learning ally plus pay for
> the print book; I have print books always as a backup so someone can help me
>
> if the audio book doesn't work or something goes wrong like the time  what
> was RFB sent me a wrong edition or when the book got lost in the mail and
> they had to re ship it.
> Then ever been in groups where they are peering over each other's shoulders
>
> to read the assignment and if they read it to you, its in a jumbled voice so
>
> you cannot understand it fully? I've been in that situation. It often
> happened in groups last semester in my public relations class.
>
> So to me doing work at home on the few ocasions its asked of us really
> doesn't seem so unfair given the rest of stuff going on.
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirt
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:44 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>
> Carly,
> How, exactly, is that more workable for a blind student? I can see how you
> could have conceivably made a case for that 10 or 15 years ago, before the
> widespread adoption of notetakers and laptops and I devices. But, especially
>
> now, when there are quite literallya whole plethora Of ways to get the work
>
> done, in class, at the same time as everybody else who is doing it, that
> just doesn't seem to hold water. I'm just curious how you would justify that
>
> to a professor, when you know there are countless ways for you to complete
> the assignment fairly?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Kirt,
>> In fact, I never claimed it to be fair, but more workable for a blind
>> student.At 08:25 PM 1/12/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>> Carly,
>>> That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets, though.
>>>
>>> I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the rest of your
>>> school day with the chance to think about the prompt, even without doing
>>>
>>> it consciously, and then going home to work on it? That gives you a lot
>>> more time to gather your thoughts than everybody else received. I'm
>>> curious how you think that is fair?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi, Kirt,
>>> >
>>> > In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the class
>>> > was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I recreate
>>> > such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>> >> Ashley and Carly,
>>> >> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else
>>> >> does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to
>>> >> have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time as
>>> >>
>>> >> everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given
>>> >> precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test how
>>> >>
>>> >> well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time and a
>>> >>
>>> >> prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand. To
>>> >>
>>> >> me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready learned
>>> >> what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over
>>> >> your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
>>> >> Warmest regards,
>>> >> Kirt
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > Carley,
>>> >> > I do the same as you usually.
>>> >> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my trusted
>>> >> >
>>> >> > desktop.
>>> >> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic
>>> >> > before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as long
>>> >> >
>>> >> > as I email it them soon after class.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ashley
>>> >> >
>>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>>> >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is
>>> >> > to
>>> >> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the time,
>>> >> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>> >> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>>> >> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>>> >> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>> >> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>> >> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop
>>> >> >> getting
>>> >> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>> >> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other electronic
>>> >> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>> >> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many
>>> >> >> other
>>> >> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>> >> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very
>>> >> >> low
>>> >> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in
>>> >> >> order
>>> >> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>> >> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have already
>>> >> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>> >> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of
>>> >> >> classes.
>>> >> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different
>>> >> >> possibilities
>>> >> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>> >> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>> >> >> Aleeha
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> > Hi all,
>>> >> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much bigger
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > than
>>> >> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>> >> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only
>>> >> >> > costs
>>> >> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six hours.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I
>>> >> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry
>>> >> >> > some
>>> >> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>> >> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>> >> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers.
>>> >> >> > Braille
>>> >> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a
>>> >> >> > mainstream
>>> >> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes use
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > is
>>> >> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>> >> >> > Arielle
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>> >> >> >> professor?
>>> >> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Deb
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>> >> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>> Hi all,
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>> >> >> >>> Typically
>>> >> >> >>> its
>>> >> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the professor
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> knows >>> it
>>> >> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class
>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>> >> >> >>> Students
>>> >> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>> >> >> >>> the
>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>> >> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as
>>> >> >> >>> well.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write
>>> >> >> >>> them on a
>>> >> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in
>>> >> >> >>> since we
>>> >> >> >>> are
>>> >> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside
>>> >> >> >>> class and
>>> >> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille
>>> >> >> >>> display to
>>> >> >> >>> other
>>> >> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>> >> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I could
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> walk
>>> >> >> >>> over
>>> >> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the
>>> >> >> >>> professor.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>> Ashley
>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> --
>>> >> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> >> >
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