[nabs-l] in class writing

Sun Jan 13 20:57:33 UTC 2013

And, apparently, I was so eager to send that message out that I didn't
correct some rather silly typos.  Sorry, folks.

On 1/13/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ashley,
>   This message is going to be very strongly worded because this is a
> very, very important issue to me.  However, I'm not trying to attack
> you personally.  Please understand that, while I feel quite
> passionately about this, I value and respect your decissions about
> what works best for you personally.  This is not meant to be an ad
> homonym argument, please don't take it as such.
>   Now, that being said, I think that doing work outside of class (even
> if you make note of the time constraints and accomodate for them, as
> best you can), if that work is done by every other student in class
> and extemporaneously, is wrong and unfair.  If part of the other
> students' assignment is to write about a prompt they only receive at
> the start of class, and finish that work by the end of class, you are
> doing a very different assignment if you receive the prompt at the
> same time everybody else does, humm and haw for the rest of the class
> period (while giving the prompt time to digest in your head), go home
> and, at your leisure within the next day or two, write the essay.  I
> recognize that college is often unfair to us blind folks (I've been on
> the receiving end of that, I know!), but that gives us no reason to be
> unfair to our fellow students in turn.  This is especially true if the
> prof grades his students on a curve; you could easily receive an
> inflated grade be cause, as I just said, you've had significantly
> extra time to think about the prompt.  I don't know about you, but my
> writing is much better, usually, if I've had time to think about what
> I'm writing before I put my metaphorical pen to metaphorical paper.
> Since, often, the principal purpose of these assignments is to see how
> well you can write off-the-cuff, without a few extra hours to think
> about the prompt, I contend that you are taking an unfair advantage
> over your fellow-students if you go home and do the assignment later.
> The fairness in the rest of your college experience, or lack thereof,
> should not even enter in to this particular equasion.
>   That said, I recognize that acommodations may need to be made.  In
> my humble opinion, if a flash drive isn't working and you have nothing
> but an outdated notetaker, it should be reasonable for you to write in
> class, under the same time constraints as every other student and
> then, on your honor, e-mail the work you did during class to your
> professor later, or print it off and hand it in the next day, or give
> it to him on a silly floppy disk later, or whatever it is you have to
> do.  As long as you are only giving the professor the work you did in
> class, and as long as you don't edit it or revise it after class, it
> seems fair for you to be able to hand it in later if there is truly no
> other practical way.  My issue has nothing to do with turning your
> work in later than other students (if that is truly the only realistic
> solution, given your current technology), but it has everything to do
> with actually doing your work after you've had a decent amount of time
> for the prompt to sink in to your head if the other students were not
> allowed that very beneficial luxury.
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 1/13/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Kirt,
>> I started college before all this lovely technology. I used a notetaker
>> but
>>
>> at that time we did not have USB drives; we had to save to floppy disks
>> or
>> Compact flash cards.
>> I found college fast paced and hard. I sometimes went part time.
>>
>> I also took some writing assignments home to do and hand in the next
>> class
>> period. Back then, I don''t think emailing professors was as prevalent.
>> Oh, ten years ago, the lovely blackboard which is semi accessible, did
>> not
>> exist!
>> Like carley,  I just took note of the class time frame and did that
>> amount
>> at home.
>>
>> I still often have done this. I have trouble sometimes with my braille
>> note
>>
>> accepting flash drives.
>> I am going to try it again and hopefully find a flash drive it likes so I
>> can hand the file to the professor if they agree to accept a flash drive.
>>
>> I suppose its not quite fair, but professors often suggest that. Its easy
>> for them to receive my work electronically in email.
>> If I send it to them the same day, as I often can do except if I have
>> internet issues, they grade my work at the same time as other students.
>> So
>> its no additional work on their end. Now, with tests they grade mine
>> separately as I take it at a different time  and location from other
>> students in the testing office. So everyone gets their tests back and I
>> get
>>
>> mine days later, usually.
>>
>> I won't even go into the fairness thing as I could write you a term paper
>> on
>>
>> how unfair college
>> treats blind students. We cannot secure the accomodations we are supposed
>> to
>>
>> have under law via section 504 and The ADA.
>> I ask professors for their slides and often don't get them at all or get
>> them late after class rendering them quite ineffective; I need to see
>> slides
>>
>> same day or next day after class while material is fresh in my head to
>> render them useful. Sighted students read the slides in class.
>> I have also attempted to acquire books in accessible formats and may not
>> get
>>
>> this; so I make my own arrangements. I pay for learning ally plus pay for
>> the print book; I have print books always as a backup so someone can help
>> me
>>
>> if the audio book doesn't work or something goes wrong like the time
>> what
>> was RFB sent me a wrong edition or when the book got lost in the mail and
>> they had to re ship it.
>> Then ever been in groups where they are peering over each other's
>> shoulders
>>
>> to read the assignment and if they read it to you, its in a jumbled voice
>> so
>>
>> you cannot understand it fully? I've been in that situation. It often
>> happened in groups last semester in my public relations class.
>>
>> So to me doing work at home on the few ocasions its asked of us really
>> doesn't seem so unfair given the rest of stuff going on.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kirt
>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:44 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>
>> Carly,
>> How, exactly, is that more workable for a blind student? I can see how
>> you
>> could have conceivably made a case for that 10 or 15 years ago, before
>> the
>> widespread adoption of notetakers and laptops and I devices. But,
>> especially
>>
>> now, when there are quite literallya whole plethora Of ways to get the
>> work
>>
>> done, in class, at the same time as everybody else who is doing it, that
>> just doesn't seem to hold water. I'm just curious how you would justify
>> that
>>
>> to a professor, when you know there are countless ways for you to
>> complete
>> the assignment fairly?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Kirt,
>>> In fact, I never claimed it to be fair, but more workable for a blind
>>> student.At 08:25 PM 1/12/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>>> Carly,
>>>> That's still not the same experience the rest of the class gets,
>>>> though.
>>>>
>>>> I mean, taking note of the assignment, going through the rest of your
>>>> school day with the chance to think about the prompt, even without
>>>> doing
>>>>
>>>> it consciously, and then going home to work on it? That gives you a lot
>>>> more time to gather your thoughts than everybody else received. I'm
>>>> curious how you think that is fair?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi, Kirt,
>>>> >
>>>> > In such situations, I try to note how much time the rest of the class
>>>> > was given in which to compose their thoughts and make sure I recreate
>>>> > such a timeframe, later at home. At 06:01 PM 1/11/2013, Kirt wrote:
>>>> >> Ashley and Carly,
>>>> >> I am slightly curious how you justify doing work that everyone else
>>>> >> does during their class time at home, especially since you seem to
>>>> >> have alternative methods available to do the work at the same time
>>>> >> as
>>>> >>
>>>> >> everybody else? In my mind, these writing assignments are given
>>>> >> precisely because class time is short, and professors want to test
>>>> >> how
>>>> >>
>>>> >> well you can write under pressure, with a limited amount of time and
>>>> >> a
>>>> >>
>>>> >> prompt you may not have had the chance to think about before hand.
>>>> >> To
>>>> >>
>>>> >> me, doing that kind of work at home, well you have all ready learned
>>>> >> what the prompt is in class, is definitely an unfair advantage over
>>>> >> your classmates. If I am wrong, I apologize. Please enlighten me.
>>>> >> Warmest regards,
>>>> >> Kirt
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Carley,
>>>> >> > I do the same as you usually.
>>>> >> > I take note of the class assignment and do it at home on my
>>>> >> > trusted
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > desktop.
>>>> >> > If the professor is proactive, he or she will email me the topic
>>>> >> > before class so I can bring the assignment to class.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Fortunately, all professors seem fine with me emailing them as
>>>> >> > long
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > as I email it them soon after class.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Ashley
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>>>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>>>> >> > Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] in class writing
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Good morning, Aleeha, Ashley and other interesteds,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > As far as in-class writings go, what seems to work best for me is
>>>> >> > to
>>>> >> > take note of what is being required the class write on at the
>>>> >> > time,
>>>> >> > then going home and composing the material on my desktop before
>>>> >> > emailing it to instructor. That way, the same "in-class" effect is
>>>> >> > captured despite it happpening to not be composed in the physical,
>>>> >> > classroom. In testing situations however, of course I bring the
>>>> >> > notebook to one of those testing areas and write the test out.
>>>> >> >>     If you are concerned about the possibility of your laptop
>>>> >> >> getting
>>>> >> >> stolen, here are a couple of things to consider.
>>>> >> >> 1. Most other students carry laptops, phones, and other
>>>> >> >> electronic
>>>> >> >> devices with them to classes. I don't think that someone would
>>>> >> >> specifically target your laptop to steal, especially with many
>>>> >> >> other
>>>> >> >> students and your professor also in the classroom.
>>>> >> >> 2. As others have said, you can get a flash drive, usually very
>>>> >> >> low
>>>> >> >> cost, and put a doc or text file of your work on that drive in
>>>> >> >> order
>>>> >> >> to exchange it with other students and/or your professor.
>>>> >> >> A good thing to keep in mind as well that some others have
>>>> >> >> already
>>>> >> >> hinted at is to have a very open conversation with your professor
>>>> >> >> either before classes start or during the very first week of
>>>> >> >> classes.
>>>> >> >> Ask what is to be expected from the class, the different
>>>> >> >> possibilities
>>>> >> >> for in-class assignments, and the possible work-arounds for any
>>>> >> >> problems that you or your professor might forsee.
>>>> >> >> Aleeha
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 1/10/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> > Hi all,
>>>> >> >> > I want to make another plug for netbooks. They aren't much
>>>> >> >> > bigger
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > than
>>>> >> >> > Braille Notes, so you can easily fit it in your backpack, and a
>>>> >> >> > netbook can do just about anything a laptop can. Plus it only
>>>> >> >> > costs
>>>> >> >> > about $300 and the built-in battery can last for up to six
>>>> >> >> > hours.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > I
>>>> >> >> > think it really is a good idea for any blind student to carry
>>>> >> >> > some
>>>> >> >> > kind of mainstream computing device to class, whether that is a
>>>> >> >> > laptop, netbook, or even an I-device so that you can easily
>>>> >> >> > communicate in writing with sighted professors and peers.
>>>> >> >> > Braille
>>>> >> >> > Notes are great and can be a wonderful supplement to a
>>>> >> >> > mainstream
>>>> >> >> > computing device, but the computing technology Braille Notes
>>>> >> >> > use
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > is
>>>> >> >> > neither mainstream nor up-to-date.
>>>> >> >> > Arielle
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > On 1/10/13, Deb Mendelsohn <deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> >> Don't you have a laptop that you could email in class to the
>>>> >> >> >> professor?
>>>> >> >> >> Maybe RSA should get you one with JAWS on it.
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> Deb
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Ashley Bramlett
>>>> >> >> >> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>> Hi all,
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> Professors ask us students to do in-class writing sometimes.
>>>> >> >> >>> Typically
>>>> >> >> >>> its
>>>> >> >> >>> unannounced; its not like its on the syllabus but the
>>>> >> >> >>> professor
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> knows >>> it
>>>> >> >> >>> usually; I mean they know when they will assign in class
>>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>>> >> >> >>> Students
>>>> >> >> >>> are given a certain  amount of time to write and then hand in
>>>> >> >> >>> the
>>>> >> >> >>> writing.
>>>> >> >> >>> They may share the writing with each other or the class as
>>>> >> >> >>> well.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> How do you handle in class writing assignments? Do you write
>>>> >> >> >>> them on a
>>>> >> >> >>> notetaker or laptop you take to school? How do you hand it in
>>>> >> >> >>> since we
>>>> >> >> >>> are
>>>> >> >> >>> not writing on paper? So far, I've usually written outside
>>>> >> >> >>> class and
>>>> >> >> >>> emailed the copy to the professor.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> I have good enough braille skills to read from my braille
>>>> >> >> >>> display to
>>>> >> >> >>> other
>>>> >> >> >>> students, but I don't usually finish the writing.
>>>> >> >> >>> I wish there was a computer lab in every building. Then I
>>>> >> >> >>> could
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> walk
>>>> >> >> >>> over
>>>> >> >> >>> there, type my writing prompt and then email it to the
>>>> >> >> >>> professor.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> I look forward to ideas.
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>> Ashley
>>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> >> >> >>> info for
>>>> >> >> >>> nabs-l:
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com
>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> >> *Deb's Cell:  520-225-8244*
>>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >> >> >> nabs-l:
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>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
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>>>> >> >
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>