[nabs-l] group projects issues

Thu Jan 31 21:16:32 UTC 2013

hi all,

I definitely agree with brandon.
I have always attended regular schools and so on so really i didn't have much of ac hoice. it was either i stood up and interacted with class mates or i did nothing whatsoever.
I will reply in a while with more of my experiences, but i felt i should point this out.

Mauricio
On Jan 31, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> "Amy, Susie, can I please join your group."
> That is not weird, and that is what you want.
> teacher: "Amy, Susie, can blind Johnny please join your group?"
> That is a little odd.
> "Hey, you want to group up?"
> That is least strange of them all.
> 
> If you are looking at your computer getting ready to take notes, then look up and ask, "so what is the prompt?"
> Most people will just read it with out thinking twice?
> If you ask someone to read aloud the prompt for everyone, that also works. Despite what people think, sighted people really benefit from the same things that make a class accessible to us.
> Most people thrive if a leader, you, invites them to learn in an oral way. It is not weird and I have been in more groups than I can count where people didn't pause when I asked questions to participate in the class.
> I also can get descriptions of videos from my group mates. If they aren't answering you, then ask the teacher after what the point of the movie was or ask the teacher before hand. I often have found if the teacher tells me the point before I see the movie I get much more out of the movie than if I were to see it then get the point after.
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:01 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues
> 
> Ashley,
> I say this with the utmost civility possible, meaning no personal
> insult or attack.  Still, I'm not one for excessive subtlety so you're
> going to get my blunt opinions here.  You responded to some
> suggestions very bluntly yourself, so I can't imagine you'll mind.
> I think you're dismissing some very good ideas without, it seems to
> me, considering their merrit.  You don't have to spend hours and hours
> of time out of class with people in order to find a group that will
> accept you.  Usually, and I grant you that I've never attended a
> commuter university quite like what you are describing, but usually
> thirty seconds of small talk before a class starts does the trick for
> me, when I need to find someone later.  And, yes, not that this
> matters in the slightest, but I am totally blind.  I'm not saying it's
> easy, I'm not saying it isn't awkward sometimes, but I'm saying that,
> for me at least, trying to talk to the people next to me before class
> starts, or asking them quiet questions throughout class (what is the
> professor writing on the board?  What, exactly, is this picture he's
> telling us to look at, etc/?), usually gives me enough contact with
> people to be able to ask if I can join a group really fast right when
> the prof. tells us all to group up.  The art behind it, for me, seems
> to be getting up and talking to the people next to me really fast,
> like as soon as the professor says "go!", because, the longer I wait,
> even if it's a few extra seconds, the harder it is to find someone not
> in a group.  For me, even though some of the people around me may
> perceive this as awkward, although probably not as much as I think
> they do, it's best to just find people ASAP, politely interrupt if
> needs be, and do whatever I need to do to get in a group right away.
> If they are already full, I'll often politely ask them to direct me to
> someone else who doesn't seem to be in a group yet.  Usually, even if
> the people I approach are already a full group, someone will see me
> wandering around looking for a group and bail me out.  If that doesn't
> happen, I'm fine asking the prof. for help as a last desperate resort,
> although that seldom happens.
> Also, I think it's important to remember that this can be a tricky
> thing for all sorts of college students, either blind or sighted.  For
> lots of people, randomly joining groups with virtual strangers is
> uncomfortable and awkward; that, I submit, is more of a personality
> issue than a blindness issue, although blindness can make things like
> eye contact trickier.  I hope I didn't come off condescending, or
> arrogant...I just wish you'd thoroughly consider things before just
> saying "no!  That won't work for me."
> Best,
> Kirt
> 
> On 1/31/13, Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah yes Ashley, I think I understand exactly what you mean. I think we
>> are very much in the same position when you read my earlier email. You
>> are definitely right about TV as well. It is a pity that many sighted
>> people talk about fashion, TV, computer games or cars which are all
>> subjects which I really can't participate in properly. I never watch
>> TV, especially because it is not described much here, although I often
>> try go and see the latest movies. Unfortunately here getting hold of
>> the latest books used to be quite a big problem, I don't know what I'd
>> have done if it wasn't for audible.
>> With my group assignments last year I also had quite a few problems,
>> in the way that it was just like you where you had to on the spot form
>> a group, and it wasn't to do stuff out of class, but what happened
>> with me was the lecturer used to maybe write something on the board or
>> hand out a problem, then she'd ask us to divide into groups for about
>> 5 minutes to read and discuss it. I was in a terrible pickle because I
>> couldn't ask for the work beforehand because she refused because she
>> was scared I'd share it with other students, so it was actually quite
>> awful because you had to not just find a group, but you actually had
>> to ask someone in the group if they just didn't mind please reading
>> the problem to me. Brandon's strategy is probably right that you just
>> have to try ask people who are next to or near you. I know that its
>> not strictly shall we say cool, especially if they're already talking
>> to other people, but really what can one do. There isn't really such a
>> good answer for quick group assignments that are done in class. At
>> least, at the end of the day its all about surviving the course.
>> You know, for your TV assignment, maybe you could help write the
>> script or something? From what you say, I don't think you have
>> actually had to watch much reality TV, if you have read many
>> nonfiction books you have maybe portraits of real life people you
>> could base your characters on? Anyway good luck and carry on telling
>> us how its going, am very interested to know.
>> Ari
>> 
>> On 1/31/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Ari,
>>> Thanks; great points. at work we will know each other and be a cohesive
>>> team, not strangers put together for a 16 week term to learn a subject.
>>> I talk to students around me; sometimes it helps, but sometimes it
>>> doesn't
>>> help me get included in a group discussion.
>>> I will have to ask the professor to assist me in finding a group to work
>>> with. Additionally, she has group discussions most class periods and then
>>> asks each group leader to speak to the class as to what they answered.
>>> 
>>> Often I enjoy group discussions; but this time it’s a bit frustrating.
>>> Why?
>>> Because, I have to find a group and ask neighbors. I  am put in the
>>> position
>>> to ask, Amy, Susie, can I join your group? This means I have to usually
>>> interrupt them since they're already looking at each other and/or getting
>>> started. Also, it’s a crowded room and I find the noise level too much. I
>>> cannot get a sense of who said what in the group or even what question
>>> we're
>>> on.
>>> I'll explain what we do. The professor gives
>>> us like four or five questions.
>>> She says get in groups of about five people.
>>> One student is the scribe. He/she is responsible for writing down the
>>> answers to questions. He/she also will
>>> place everyone's name on the paper so we all get class participation
>>> credit.
>>> Finally, after we discuss as a class, the scribe hands in the completed
>>> copy
>>> to the professor.
>>> One student is the spokesperson for each small group. So when we discuss
>>> as
>>> a class, there are five or six people speaking and she goes around the
>>> room
>>> systematically. Sometimes she asks for volunteers as well; so then a
>>> group
>>> member calls out and shares their stuff.
>>> 
>>> For the group project, I am not looking forward to it. It is an
>>> assignment
>>> where we have to make a skit for a mock tv program illustrating
>>> sociological
>>> concepts. Well, I have no clue where to even begin. I do not watch much
>>> tv;
>>> and certainly not reality tv shows!
>>> 
>>> As to the other suggestions, I did those.
>>> Kaiti, I do ask students around me, but as I said before, they are
>>> already
>>> paired in groups for the project.
>>> Brandon, asking students around you does not always work if they already
>>> know who they want to work with. They might even recognize people from
>>> another class, in this case sociology 201.
>>> I don't know who is sitting by me all the time; it changes from time to
>>> time. I cannot link voices to names as I do not hear them often!
>>> I don't have the  benefit of recognizing people by face.
>>> 
>>> As for educating and interacting with people outside class, um forget it!
>>> People don't interact much outside classes. I'm there as continuing
>>> education while I look for work. These additional courses such as
>>> business
>>> writing, intro to business and technical editing will boost my resume as
>>> a
>>> way to demonstrate I studied writing. It also shows I'm a good writer
>>> from
>>> writing samples and professor recommendations.
>>> 
>>> I know it’s a commuter community college;  no sense of community. I tried
>>> and tried to form study groups to no avail;; only in one class did I get
>>> a
>>> study partner and that was cause I asked him. we chatted before class and
>>> he
>>> seemed mature and friendly.
>>> 
>>> Frankly, I go to school to study and learn, not to be a ambassador
>>> for the legally blind community. If I wanted to educate my whole life,
>>> I'd
>>> work for a blindness agency doing outreach work or something of that
>>> nature.
>>> I will answer questions about blindness or braille or whatever if they
>>> ask.
>>> But I want to be myself and talk about lots of other things besides
>>> visual
>>> impairment. I have a lot of other opinions and things to share about me
>>> than
>>> the characteristic of partial vision.
>>> So, I do not buy this line that if we go out and educate people that they
>>> will accept us. If people get to know me, they will accept me for who I
>>> am
>>> including my personality, values, and me being legally blind.
>>> I don't make a big deal about being almost blind.
>>> Besides students simply study there and leave for home; very little time
>>> to
>>> interact outside class unless you are in a club.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for  the thoughts and I'll work on getting a group to be in next
>>> class.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ari Damoulakis
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:17 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] group projects issues
>>> 
>>> Hi Ashley
>>> I couldn't agree with you more on group projects and the issues people
>>> have with them. There are many blindness-type related issues.
>>> Like you, when it comes to being an individual and participating in
>>> class, I do participate and get complemented, but their are many blind
>>> issues with group projects that I can think of.
>>> The first issue is when group projects are announced. Lecture rooms
>>> are so huge and so many people are in the classes that the first
>>> problem is finding the people you know from that class. What normally
>>> happens with me is that because obviously you can't look and find your
>>> friends in class, you generally have to wait after class to SMS them
>>> to see if they have a group and whether their group has room etc. If
>>> it is a class where you don't really know anyone, I think your idea is
>>> right, just find people nearer to you and try ask if you can join.
>>> The next problem you then have is if you actually do do that, because
>>> most of the time, even though they know you might be smart in the real
>>> class, somehow many people when having to try actually talk to and
>>> interact with a blind person somehow has a problem. When your group
>>> members are discussing what tasks everyone should be doing you have to
>>> ask one of them "what would you like me to do?" or say "I can do x or
>>> y." If you don't you stand the risk that they just ignore you.
>>> It is interesting to see that your group members interact virtually.
>>> Mostly whenever I've done these things we meet somewhere to discuss.
>>> You are right that most times people don't do things and so on, but to
>>> be really honest with you when it comes to group work at university I
>>> wouldn't really be too worried because this is probably not how things
>>> will work in later life. I'm not talking about the people doing
>>> nothing etc, I'm rather talking about when you get a job. If you get a
>>> job and have to work together as a group you probably won't have to
>>> worry too much because you'd be working with people you would work
>>> with everyday, and they would over time become used to seeing you as
>>> being a capable person, therefore if you have group projects in the
>>> work place they'd help you more. With university you probably just
>>> meet people and work with them once-off, so don't be too worried.
>>> Lecturers probably can also see who worked in the group and who
>>> didn't, but I also don't think they take group assignments as
>>> seriously as individual ones, because intelligent lecturers are not
>>> blind to the problems that university group assignments entail, I'm
>>> not talking about specifically blind here, but sighted people in the
>>> group have many of these problems as well, such as others not doing
>>> work etc.
>>> For group the advice I can try give you is don't overstress yourself,
>>> just relax and do the best you can, because luckily in the real world
>>> the university form of a group assignment where noone knows anyone
>>> else will probably not be bothering you much.
>>> Ari
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
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