[nabs-l] Access to movies and public transit: was Re: netflixsays "no" to audio description

Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. freethaught at gmail.com
Thu Jul 18 02:02:03 UTC 2013 

Melissa and others,

While educational and job-related access to technology should get priority, I don't see anything wrong with addressing entertainment, and other secondary issues as an organization.

This discussion actually perpetuates the idea that the national Federation of the blind is not friendly to descriptive video access.

We are willing to sweep the descriptive video access issue under the rug, and ignore it as a "nice to have", even annoying feature, but not very important.

There are certain issues that the AND Nfb does not address that deserve the utmost attention.

When was the last resolution regarding public transportation proposed, and past? We are a member organization, and I am a member. I could very well bring this up at any point, but, I can't imagine that we, employment – focused people haven't given mass transit the priority it deserves.

Here is an area of interest to all, and a good opportunity to collaborate with other organizations to improve mass transit.

Here we have a division for car enthusiasts, but no attention to Independent, efficient, and accessible mobility in big cities throughout the country.

It amazes me that no small group out of the 50,000 strong membership hasn't thought of a useful policy in public transit.

The quiet car issue does come to mind when I think of it. but I guess we don't want to get involved in the debates regarding audible cross signals, and truncated domes all over again.

So here's to the big city and public transit,

Antonio

On Jul 16, 2013, at 9:01 PM, melissa Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:

> right on Arielle.
> I completely agree with you.
> I loved the DVS discriptive vidio service and I also love the listings of tv 
> programs, and the fact that it mentions audio description.
> But there are more important things that we need to focus on, like the 
> keosks that aren't accessible.
> 
> Blessings,
> Melissa Green and PJ
> facebook Melissa R Green
> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674
> skype: lissa5674
> Goodreads Melissa Green
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] netflixsays "no" to audio description
> 
> 
> I agree it would be easy enough to get Netflix content described, but
> I wouldn't rank it high on my own priority list. For me the biggest
> battles we fight should revolve around education, employment and
> access to health and safety information. The NFB has gone after
> accessibility cases before, but most were directly related to
> educational or job-related content, like inaccessible Kindles being
> used in classrooms and inaccessible Google apps. I suppose the Target
> lawsuit was an exception, and so I wasn't totally in agreement with
> that one, unless someone could convince me that making Target.com
> accessible would help more people get jobs. I love online shopping,
> but just don't think it's as important as these other things.
> I also have mixed feelings about audio description itself. There are
> times when it is helpful, but it can also be distracting and alter the
> mood of a movie or show. For example, when I watched the Sound of
> Music in described format, I was annoyed by the narrators cutting into
> all my favorite songs. Sometimes I wonder if I would enjoy
> action-adventure films more if they were described, but then again I'm
> not sure how much fight scenes would interest me even if I knew
> exactly what was happening. Finally, audio description does no good if
> the television, DVD player or Netflix program doesn't have accessible
> controls. Many modern televisions don't have accessible menus, so I'm
> not sure how easily a blind person can turn audio description on and
> off without sighted help even if it was available. To me, going to all
> the trouble of making something described and then playing it on an
> inaccessible device totally nullifies any benefits of the audio
> description, and this ends up wasting the time and money of the folks
> who made it described in the first place. So I'd like to see us press
> on with initiatives that will make user electronics accessible before
> we worry too much about audio-describing the content.
> 
> Arielle
> 
> On 7/15/13, Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
>> That's a very interesting argument in favor of captioning for the deaf. I
>> wonder why we couldn't use it for descriptions  for the blind?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 15, 2013, at 2:20 PM, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> All,
>>> First and foremost, Dan is of course right, litigation is the very
>>> last options which the NFB, as well as most sensible people, resort
>>> to. Legal battles are slow, cumbersome, and take up a lot of
>>> resources, both human and economical. It is true that the NFB has won
>>> some essential battles in the courtroom, but I can assure you that
>>> those battles have come after we have tried talking, advocating,
>>> negotiation, protesting with no tangible results. And those cases that
>>> do go to court, are cases based on rights that are available to
>>> everyone else, and which are so ubiquitous, that it is unreasonable to
>>> just sit back and accept that thats the way the world works for blind
>>> people. That we will be excluded from programs, services and
>>> activities which the sighted world can enjoy, and that there's nothing
>>> we can do about it. It is every American's right to resort to the
>>> justice system when their civil rights are being violated.
>>> Joshua, as far as the ADA and Netflicks...  The ADA covers places,
>>> programs and services of public accommodations. So for instance, any
>>> member of the public can go to a restaurant, thus, a restaurant must
>>> be physically accessible to disabled Americans. The issue of web
>>> accessibility is complex and is a very young work in public. Thus far,
>>> most successful web accessibility and technology lawsuits, have been
>>> successful on the premisce that this web service has a physical
>>> equivalent. A good example ofthis are websites for retail stores. If
>>> you can walk into Target and buy a shirt, you should be able to go
>>> online and buy a shirt. Netflix is a private enterprise, and there
>>> really isn't a physical equivalent to a movie which offers additional
>>> accessibility. There was a Netflix caption lawsuit which was
>>> successful because we had some brilliant lawyers argue, that ones home
>>> is a place of public accommodation, and that Netflix is so ubiquitous
>>> in every home, that one should be able to fully access that service.
>>> That's the very watered down version of the argument. So the short
>>> answer is that no, DOJ has not issued any kind of mandate which says
>>> that movies must have descriptive audio. The only setting for which
>>> that would be an argument which falls under ADA is in an educational
>>> setting, where the visual is a mandatory part of the curriculum.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> On 7/15/13, Melissa Hambleton <nightfury19 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> My boyfriend, who is 33 years old (same as me) and he is sighted, has
>>>> said
>>>> time and time again how it would be nice that Netflix would have
>>>> description
>>>> 
>>>> on their movies. When we watch DVDs my boyfriend always looks for the
>>>> description feature and he even appreciates it sometimes because every
>>>> now
>>>> and again, the narrator will say something that my boyfriend didn't
>>>> notice
>>>> on the TV screen.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Dan Burke" <dburke at cocenter.org>
>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 2:30 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] netflixsays "no" to audio description
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would concur with Steve's comments adding that in every case where 
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB
>>>>> has filed suit, it has thoroughly exhausted all the advocacy avenues
>>>>> available.  Thus, there are many things that move successfully ahead
>>>>> with
>>>>> strong advocacy and never get to the stage of a lawsuit. You can see
>>>>> some
>>>>> 
>>>>> of
>>>>> the positive results with companies on this year's convention agenda,
>>>>> such
>>>>> as Desire 2 Learn; and those in other presentations such as Pearson
>>>>> Online.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
>>>>> Jacobson
>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 12:01 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] netflixsays "no" to audio description
>>>>> 
>>>>> Valerie,
>>>>> 
>>>>> One has to be careful not to attribute every message on an NFB list to
>>>>> necessarily be the policy or even the thinking of the NFB.
>>>>> For one thing, I'm not at all certain that there is a law under which 
>>>>> to
>>>>> sue
>>>>> in this case.  Also, our treasury isn't exactly
>>>>> bottomless so we have to prioritize
>>>>> where to spend money and what the liklihood is of getting a positive
>>>>> result.
>>>>> We are really pretty careful regarding the legal
>>>>> action we undertake.  There are times when legal action is the only
>>>>> available course of action, but there has to be a pretty clear
>>>>> law or precedence upon which to base such action.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:53:16 -0600, Valerie Gibson wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think one of the problems with the NFB is our reputation for being
>>>>>> "sue
>>>>> happy".
>>>>>> And with the last email, I see where we get that rep, seeing as it was
>>>>>> the
>>>>> first response to something like this.  In the link,
>>>>> it seems that only one netflix representative was spoken to. Why not
>>>>> ask,
>>>>> via email or phone, if there is anyone to which one can
>>>>> speak to figure out how you can colaborate to making netflix movies
>>>>> descriptive.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> My personal opinion, you're not going to get much headway with this.
>>>>>> This
>>>>> issue doesn't affect all blind people, and so not all
>>>>> blind people are going to be on board with this.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> As some may know, i'm interested in becoming a certified dog trainer,
>>>>>> and
>>>>> one could argue that that doesn't affect all blind
>>>>> people. owever it is a potential job prospect, which affects income, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> jobs and income are not the same as the ability to have
>>>>> descriptive movies.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Furthermore, not all blind people like movies in descriptive and find
>>>>>> it
>>>>> destracting.  Depending on the movie, i am one such
>>>>> person, so my thoughts here could be a little bias.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Would it be nice for just the option to watch movies in descriptive?
>>>>>> sure.
>>>>> But i think before we jump to "let's sue them", we
>>>>> should at least do something more passive.  A petition perhaps?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2013, at 10:13 AM, The weird writer
>>>>>> <weirdwriter9891 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Netflix says "no" to audio description. why?
>>>>> http://netflixproject.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/netflix-says-no-to-audio-
>>>>> description/
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
>>> forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
>>> feel."
>>> —
>>> Maya Angelou
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
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