[nabs-l] security alerts on the braillenote

Wed Mar 13 02:27:23 UTC 2013

Kaiti:

We could run this one into the ground so I'll answer as briefly as I can.

First, "stylus" is spelled S T Y L U S. And the device you describe is the correct one. However, the "confusion" is on the part of your TVI who obviously wasn't taught at a NFB-oriented school or knew many competent slate-users. I'm not knocking her; I'm just saying you were short-changed. For one thing, you don't write "backward" with the slate and stylus. Yes, you do punch cells from right-to-left. But that's only logical if you're producing dots on the reverse side of the page. For another, you are not writing "backward"; you are writing mirror-image. That is, dot 1 is *always* on the top whether you use a Braillewriter or slate and stylus. It's just that on a Braillewriter, you push the upper-left key just as you would read it while with a slate and stylus, you push the upper-right indentation to make the Braille on the reverse side. Fred Schroeder always said that people made Braille waaay to hard. Had you been educated in the Albuquerque public schools when he directed the VI program, you would have called dots 1, 2, 3 the "first" side" and dots 4, 5, 6 the "second side". You would have learned that on a Braillewriter, the "first side" was on the left and with a slate, it was on the right. You would be told that, say, the letter e was first-side top and second-side middle and that would hold whether you were using a slate or a Braillewriter. And you would have been introduced to the slate *first.* Then when you were pretty good, you would have found the Braillewriter a no-brainer.

I taught myself to use a slate and stylus by keeping my ham radio log (we hams back then had to write down every contact/transmission) with a slate. Believe me, with people checking in and out of the conversations frequently, I got fast PDQ. But enough on this issue.

I'm not saying the BN is perfect. In fact, I've heard many of the same complaints as you and that Humanware's tech support has gone down-hill quickly. But I can assure you that the word processor in the BN handles some aspects of Braille usage (when writing, of course) better than the Sense note-takers. I think a good deal of the problem lies with the programmers who are Korean. But the Sense note-takers are superbly engineered and I wouldn't be without my BrailleSensePLUS B32.

But have a little sympathy for Humanware. Web sites are changing all the time and manufacturers of note-takers have a tiger by the tail trying to keep up with their changing appearance and syntax.

One more thing and I'll get off my soapbox. Someone (it wasn't you, I think) suggested that Humanware have a monthly payment plan. Really? Are we not asking a wee bit much when we want our note-taker purveyors to be our finance companies, too? I realize others do this but Humanware may not be in a position to bring that one off.

Now I'll go back to lurking.

Thank you, everyone, for your indulgence.

Mike Freeman

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 8:37 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] security alerts on the braillenote

Hi Mike,

I believe I mentioned that the BrailleSense is not glitch-free.  It
has it's bugs, but in comparison to the BrailleNote, at least in my
observations, it seems to do a better job simply because the software
it uses is more current.  I am with you though on not expecting a
notetaker to do everything; I certainly don't.  I use a pc for most of
my work and leave the braille reading and quick notetaking for things
that aren't as significant as class notes.  (A habit I learned from
the BrailleNote too, which I and others I know have found has the
occasional habit of deleting files without the input to do so from the
user).  I don't hold full faith in my BrailleSense for everything, but
as someone who does use it for reading books in braille because I
prefer to read off of a notetaker, I can sympathize with those who are
frustrated at Humanware's lack of upkeep to their system.  Although
personally I always transfered books from the pc to the notetaker
through a flashdrive just because I could get what I needed faster, I
do think that if Humanware went to the length of putting Bookshare in
the favorites, thereby promoting accessing it from the device to
download books directly to the unit, then they should have at least
made some effort to make that feature work for people who might want
to use it.

The slate I've seen sounds different from what you're describing.  It
was a rectangular metal strip with pin-prick sized holes for the
stylis to go into.  The way it was explained to me, you open it up,
place it over the paper so that the side where you have to use the
stylis is lined up with the hinge of the instrument on the right side
of the page.  Then you start on the right and write each character
backwards, moving in right to left motion, so that when you take the
instrument off the page and flip it over the braille is there.
Because of the necessity to flip everything my teachers thought it was
much more practical to stick with a Perkins brailler, as I could
quickly move in linear fashion across the page without flipping each
character.  I guess that has been the practice taught to kids my age
and younger in my area.

On 3/11/13, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> Kaiti:
>
> I understand your frustration. I, too, have heard that Humanware has fallen
> down drastically on tech support and in keeping their note-takers
> up-to-date. I, too, use HIMS products. I, too, like them. But have no
> illusions: HIMS products have plenty of glitches and HIMS has released
> software that obviously wasn't tested thoroughly enough to get rid of what
> ought to have been obvious bugs.
>
> My point is that all-too-many people are expecting note-takers to do things
> that they haven't the horse-power or software sophistication to do.
>
> The key to me is to use each device for what it's good for, not to expect
> one device to do it all.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 2:53 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] security alerts on the braillenote
>
> Sophie and all,
>
> I have to disagree with Mike's last comment.  Seeing as Humanware
> caters to a very specific group of people and is dependent on their
> money to keep their company afloat they would be frankly speaking
> stupid not to listen to a complaint such as this from their customers.
>  This isn't some tiny little glitch that is just a nuisance every once
> in a while, ut is a reoccurring thing.  This is the precise reason why
> I switched to Hims instead of Humanware.  Not for this precise reason,
> but when you compare the two sets of notetakers side by side it's no
> wonder why web surfing on the BrailleSense is faster; a machine
> running a decent version of windows software rather than MS Dos like
> the BrailleNote is going to produce better results because it is more
> in sync with the other technology out there today.  I can only wonder
> why Humanware hasn't figured out how to upgrade their operating system
> from one of the 90's to something more current.  Of course the
> BrailleSense line of notetakers are by no means flawless, but I have
> found that my BrailleSense responds a lot better, I don't have to
> reset it as much as I had to reset my BrailleNote, and the web surfing
> is pretty good considering it's on a notetaker rather than a laptop.
>
> I think if enough people were to sign something and explicitly state
> the problem and the inconvenience it causes then Humanware would be
> wise to listen and at least make some effort in updating the security
> certificate list.  The fact that this happens on sites which Humanware
> already programs into the favorites is another good point and one
> worth mentioning as well.  Perhaps NABS could start something and
> hopefully it would matriculate to other divisions.  I've heard plenty
> of older people complain about issues with their BrailleNotes as well
> so this wouldn't just be something for the students to work on if it
> were to happen.
>
> On 3/11/13, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> sophie:
>> I don't know you so am reluctant to comment upon your assertion that a
>> slate
>> is inefficient except to say that such assertions are often made by those
>> who do not use a slate extensively and therefore are unfamiliar with how
>> efficient it can be in skilled hands.
>> As for electronic petitions, they are IMO worthless since they cannot be
>> verified. Moreover, keeping up with such things as security certificates
>> and
>> current trends in web design is a thankless, if not an impossible task for
>> manufacturers of specialized devices.
>> And Apple periodically breaks Braille support and we must wait months for
>> the fix!
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>> sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 11, 2013, at 13:43, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As for the slate versus the notetaker, generally, its faster with the
>>> notetaker; but a slate can be as fast as a pencil and paper if you have
>>> practiced enough. But I would never be fast like that as I did not grow
>>> up
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> I like the petetion idea too. why not do i t online or at the nfb
>>> convention?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist
>>> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 4:13 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] security alerts on the braillenote
>>>
>>> Mike, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Slates and
>>> styluses are very inefficient. On my BN, I can type notes in
>>> class faster than most sighted kids can write them. On an S&S,
>>> notetaking would take ten times as long and be three times as
>>> difficult. Also, I have found Apple's braille support to be very
>>> nice. Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's great all things
>>> considered. Okay, sorry for the rant and for getting off topic.
>>> Kaiti, I like your idea of petitioning Humanware to include an
>>> updated list of security certificates (as well as a freakin Docx
>>> converter) into their next update. Does anyone know how we could
>>> get such a project started?
>>>
>>> Yours sincerely,
>>> Sophie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 11:55:22 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] security alerts on the braillenote
>>>
>>> The answer is extremely simple although my observation is that
>>> most blind people do not want to hear it.
>>> First, piezoelectric braille displays are expensive and the
>>> demand for them is small enough that their price is unlikely to
>>> decrease much.
>>> Second, Apple sells far more i-devices than Humanware, HIMS and
>>> Levelstar/APH sell note-takers. Therefore, Apple can take
>>> advantage of economies of scale in production that note-taker
>>> manufacturers can only dream of. High production quantity
>>> translates directly into lower prices
>>> This is the economic consequence of being the minority we know
>>> ourselves to be. The fact that note-takers are, in essence,
>>> glorified PDAs with braille displays matters not one whit where
>>> economics are concerned. The kicker here is that we cannot depend
>>> upon mainstream devices to meet all our needs
>>> All the complaining in the world won't change this reality. The
>>> one consolation we have here is that slates and styluses are
>>> still cheap!
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman
>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 11, 2013, at 11:05, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah my point is the same why in the world would you have to pay
>>> over $5,000 for a device that can barely do more than go on
>>> Facebook or google or Bookshare when an iPhone costs less than
>>> half the price and you can do anything on it.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 01:38:15 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] security alerts on the braillenote
>>>
>>> I think i saw something about it on the BN mailing list, but
>>> someone said their computer was doing it too, and I have not had
>>> that problem.  Overall, the thread on it was not too helpful, but
>>> maybe I just didn't dig deep enough.
>>>
>>> Another bad part about all this is, I can't even exit the
>>> internet because the dialog pops up again.  I have to reset my
>>> BN.
>>>
>>> It's sadly getting to the point where, if not for the braille
>>> display, the BN would not be worth having?쫆t least that's my
>>> thinking.
>>>
>>> I know the BN can only do so muc, but if it were half as good as
>>> a mobile device that would be something.  I don't mean to bash
>>> the braillenote or the manufacturer, and I appologize if my tone
>>> is coming across as such, it's just?쫡o spend that much money on
>>> a device and have your iphone/ipad, which coasts a fifth of the
>>> price, work more flawlessly is a wee bit disappointing.
>>>
>>> Maybe humanware should up the game and make a iphone/ipad
>>> docking station with a braille display at the bottom?쫛r an
>>> iphone/ipad case with a braille display somehow built in.  You
>>> have to admit, that would be beautiful.  :)
>>>
>>> If anyone figures out a way around this, please let me know.
>>> Thanks so much.
>>> On Mar 11, 2013, at 12:09 AM, Zachary N.  Griego-Dreicer
>>> <zdreicer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> good evening Valerie.  I get those annoying things all the time!
>>> I can not figure a way around them either.  Do you know of  the
>>> braillenote mailing list?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 10, 2013, at 10:59 PM, Valerie Gibson
>>> <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Quick question.  Does anyone ever get a ton of security alerts
>>> while using the internet on the braillenote apex?  When I go to
>>> facebook or bookshare, I'll get:
>>> Security alert dialog.
>>> informationyou exchange with this site cannot be viewed or
>>> changed by others.  However, there is a problem with the site's
>>> security certificate.  The security certificate is from a trusted
>>> certifying athority.
>>> The security certificate date is valid.
>>> The name on the security certificate is invalid or does not
>>> match the name of the site.
>>> Do you want to continue?
>>>
>>> The problem is:
>>> 1.  I can sometimes get eight or ten of these in a row, and I
>>> just hit yes on it.
>>> 2.  When i'm moving to a new line on the dialog, the braillenote
>>> lags.  for example, from "The name on the security certificate is
>>> invalid?? to "do you want to continue?? it takes the
>>> braillenote a second at most to jump from those two line.  When
>>> you're dealing with four lines, that's four seconds, just to get
>>> to the prompt.  With all of that added up, it takes about a
>>> minute to get past that.  I even tried hitting "no" on the prompt
>>> and it still brings up security stuff..
>>>
>>> Any advice, suggestions, helpful hints, complaints such as this,
>>> etc? :)
>>>
>>> Thanks
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>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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-- 
Kaiti

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