[nabs-l] the test accomodations

Wed May 1 02:14:44 UTC 2013

Arielle,
That's a good idea if it works for you. I never have done exams in class in 
college; I need extended time
and well it just did not seem fair to me to ask to do an exam on my personal 
equipment anyway.

Anyway, I also like the idea of using a TA's office if your class has one.
Thanks for sharing.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:02 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations

I've never taken a test in a professor's office; I've always done it
in class with the other students, either on my Braille Note or laptop.
One time I did the test in the teaching assistant's office on my
Braille Note so she could describe diagrams to me. I know that's not
an option for Ashley, but just putting out there for others.
Arielle

On 4/30/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Kaiti,
> I've never used the braille note for tests as I said before. I was told by
> the school to go to the testing center and use their computer.
> However, if I did use the Braille note, I'd
> still need a reader to write my answers on a scantron. If it was essay, 
> I'd
>
> simply  write the essay in the file.
>
> Also, I'm glad taking tests in the professor's office works for you.
> However, when I requested to do this in the past, they say that they are
> busy or something.
> I agree with you that your way sounds uncomplicated.
>
> I'll definitely consider taking future exams in my professor's office 
> again
>
> if I take more classes; I should be finishing my certificate now though.
> I could see that its easy; simply taking it on a notetaker or laptop.
>
> Regarding the brailling of the test, I agree with you.
> The process is incredibly easy with Duxbury which is the software the 
> school
>
> has, or used to have.
> Its not rocket science.
>
> The counselor should know a little about technology for blind people 
> having
>
> been a prior vr counselor at the department for the blind here.
> When you said,
> "Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the
> process of embossing is?  You might want to try asking her if she
> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable
> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special
> training and that it won't take much of her time."
>
> I can certainly ask her about this. They have student worker staff in the
> counseling office and a student could convert it to braille with duxbury
> from a Word file.
> Personally, I think her claim that no one can braille it because the
> assistive technology lab guy left is an excuse.
> They could make braille happen if they wanted to with all the staff and
> resources they have.
>
> I like the points you made about the ease of embossing and no special
> technology knowledge needed. Great points. Maybe that will change their 
> mind
>
> for the next student that comes along and needs embossing.
>
> Ashley
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:37 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>
> Hi Ashley,
>
> I agree with Kirt, Lillie, Arielle, Melissa, etc.
>
> My question is, if you do use the BrailleNote to read your test why
> wouldn't you use it to write your answers as well.  You could always
> flip between the test document and your answer document with the 1 2 5
> 6 and space command, which would cut out the need to have a reader at
> all.
>
> In addition to what has been said by others, I think the fewer number
> of people you bring into the situation the easier it could be.  For
> example, if your professor would be okay with you using the notetaker
> to read the test and just gave you a flashdrive with the test on it,
> you could take the test in their office, put the answer sheet file on
> the flash drive when you're done, and instantly hand the test back to
> your professor.  In my experiences this is the most uncomplicated way
> of handling testing situations, and it also doesn't take other
> unnecessary people to get the job done.  Anyway, I was just curious.
>
> Also, another note adding to what Lillie said.  Your office claims
> there is no one to run the software to braille your stuff; have you
> told them that all they need to do is take a document and click a few
> buttons in Microsoft word and as long as the embosser is on they
> really don't need some special person to do it?  My university hired
> an assistive technology specialist to help with things like checking
> accessibility of the blackboard stuff, making sure my math turned out
> to be doable, etc, and to do my brailling, but running an embosser is
> by no means rocket science and I've even had students who work the
> disability office desk and had never even embossed anything before
> figure out where to click and emboss documents for me when she wasn't
> available.  Perhaps your councelor isn't aware of how simple the
> process of embossing is?  You might want to try asking her if she
> knows how the process really works and see if she'll be more agreeable
> to make braille coppies for you if she knows she doesn't need special
> training and that it won't take much of her time.
> Good luck, from one final exam-taking student to another.
>
> On 4/30/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ashley,
>>
>> A serial port should work for this.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>> Public Relations Committee
>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
>> Bramlett
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:16 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>
>> Lilly,
>> I like that idea. I have an m'power. What cable do you use to hook a
>> monitor
>> to the notetaker?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lillie Pennington
>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 9:35 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>
>> Out of curiosity. Did the issue of having a  monitor hooked up to your
>> Braille note ever come up so the professor or  whoever could see what you
>> were doing and not cheating. I like that system as well. It can get dicey
>> with graphics in the file or massive word banks.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I was a teaching assistant for a large introductory psychology course
>>> a few years ago, and was on the other side of the accommodations issue
>>> getting disability letters from students who needed extended time or a
>>> distraction-free environment for testing. I would send these letters
>>> to the instructor who supervised me and he always said he hated
>>> working with disability services and much preferred to work out the
>>> testing "in-house" between him/me and the student. So I would have
>>> students take exams in my office instead of using the testing center
>>> because it was less hassle for the instructor that way. If instructors
>>> have to go through disability services, they have to prepare their
>>> tests early and they also have to often grade the test after everyone
>>> else's because they don't get it from disability services until later.
>>> I agree that a Braille Note could be a really good compromise between
>>> using a Braille test and using a reader. The prof could give you a
>>> text file, you could fill it out on your Braille Note and then turn it
>>> back in at the same time as all other students. As others have stated,
>>> professors may or may not allow this but the only way to find out is
>>> to ask. I used my Braille Note for testing for four semesters and I
>>> think in that time only one professor insisted I use DSS instead of
>>> using my Braille Note.
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 4/29/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Kirt,
>>>> okay; then how do you take the exam? with your own laptop? If not,
>>>> how do you read the exam?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Kirt
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:22 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>
>>>> Ashley,
>>>> It might be worth checking if your professor will let you take the
>>>> test outside of the testing center. If your relationship with her is
>>>> as good as you say it is, what would be the harm in asking, at the
>>>> very least?
>>>> Incidentally, many of my professors have recommended that I take
>>>> their test
>>>>
>>>> outside of the testing center, even if that's where the rest of the
>>>> class takes it.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "Lillie Pennington"
>>>> <lilliepennington at fuse.net>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ashley,
>>>>> Are you going to be taking classes after this semester? You may want
>>>>> to be thinking in the long term of how your going to be fixing these
>>>>> types of problems. For example, if your taking another class like
>>>>> this where you may want a Braille copy, how do you plan to get it?
>>>>> Would you be willing to pay with your own money for a Braille test?
>>>>> You could look into getting your tests transcribed somehow. You
>>>>> could talk to your future professors about this (you'd probably have
>>>>> to make arrangements for them to somehow send the test off to make
>>>>> sure that you couldn't possibly cheat.) I recall you mentioning in
>>>>> another email that you had a Braille note. How comfortable are you
>>>>> with electronic files? The professor may have  an electronic copy of
>>>>> the test and you could load it on your Braille note and read from
>>>>> there on your display so you are indeed getting a copy in Braille
>>>>> (sort of.) For these tests with the foreign language words, and
>>>>> other tests in general, this could also iliminate the reader
>>>>> problems your having. I don't know if any
>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> this would work, I'm just trying to throw out a few solutions that I
>>>>> was thinking of.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
>>>>> Bramlett
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 3:57 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Justin and everyone,
>>>>> Oh how I'd love a braille copy. that would eliminate this problem of
>>>>> hearing a reader state these words.
>>>>> No, they will not provide braille. They have no one to run the
>>>>> braille production anymore; I don't know what the assistive technology
>> guy left.
>>>>> They would have to outsource the brailling and there is no time for
>>>>> this.
>>>>> Additionally, I asked my disability counselor to get another exam
>>>>> brailled last semester. She refused! As I said, she is difficult to
>>>>> work with.
>>>>> She will do what is minimally required. Her response and argument
>>>>> against braille was the following:
>>>>> 1. The college is only required to provide access and you can read
>>>>> the exam with jaws.
>>>>> 2. You are not entitled to your prefered format of an exam.
>>>>> 3. No one is available to braille your exam in-house and it is not
>>>>> necessary to braille this exam. We won't pay for the outsourcing to
>>>>> translate into braille because you have a means to access the exam
>>>>> now.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was a pr exam btw.
>>>>> So, I'm sure I cannot get a brailled exam, even if there was enough
>>>>> time.
>>>>> She would make the same arguments I believe.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: justin williams
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:10 PM
>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point, why not.  Not a bad idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne
>>>>> Germano
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:51 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>
>>>>> Can they provide you a Braille copy of the test so you can follow
>>>>> along with the reader?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Arielle Silverman <
>>>>> Arielle.Silverman at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I really think you will be less stressed and happier if you cut out
>>>>>> the DSS middleman, and just work with your professor. As a backup,
>>>>>> if the prof is totally unwilling, you can go back to DSS and follow
>>>>>> their rules. But you said the prof is helpful, so it's likely he'll
>>>>>> be willing to work something out with you that's fair.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> What they mean is "if you take the test in our building you have
>>>>>>> to use our readers". The DSS policies don't apply to you once you
>>>>>>> step out of their office.
>>>>>>> I  don't know where other blind students have taken tests with
>>>>>>> their private readers, but I'd think you could do it in a
>>>>>>> designated testing room in the building where the class is, or you
>>>>>>> could go to the professor's office hours and do it there while the
>>>>>>> professor is around to ensure you don't cheat.
>>>>>>> If you ask the professor, they might be able to offer a reader who
>>>>>>> works for the department, like a student worker or an assistant. I
>>>>>>> don't know how it works in community colleges, but I know at my
>>>>>>> university, the psych department has a huge support staff. This
>>>>>>> will help you avoid having to pay out of pocket, though even then
>>>>>>> you might end up sacrificing a little bit on reader quality.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remember: the DSS policies are binding on the DSS staff, but
>>>>>>> they're not binding on you as the student. The only one who really
>>>>>>> has control over how you take tests is the professor. Some
>>>>>>> professors give their entire classes online exams. That's their
>>>>>>> right as professors
>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>> If the professor trusts you enough to let you use your own reader,
>>>>>>> or to use your laptop in class, or any of a number of other
>>>>>>> accommodations, that's their decision to make.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>>>> So you're suggesting that the professor and student which is me
>>>>>>>> arrange for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a private reader I hire to take the exam.
>>>>>>>> Where would I take the exam then? I'll have to check if this
>>>>>>>> violates school
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> policy.
>>>>>>>> Are you saying that you know blind students using their own
>>>>>>>> readers for exams with no objection from the professor? Where
>>>>>>>> would they take the exam and how does the professor ensure that
>>>>>>>> you did not cheat then?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:03 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, a DSS office cannot legislate what you do outside of their
>>>>>>>> office.
>>>>>>>> If you and the professor agree that you will use a reader you
>>>>>>>> hired yourself, the DSS office cannot step in and veto that
>>>>>>>> arrangement you worked out with your professor. The DSS office
>>>>>>>> only has authority if you give it to them by asking to take the
>>>>>>>> test in their
>>>>> office.
>>>>>>>> Hiring your own readers for testing is only a problem if the
>>>>>>>> professor has an objection to it. Many professors are quite
>>>>>>>> laid-back about things like that, even if they are technically
>>>>>>>> not quite in line with school policy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/26/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a possible ADA case if it gets to far.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>> Ashley Bramlett
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:21 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree
>>>>>>>>> but taking classes to further my studies and get a writing
>>>>>>>>> certificate. The class
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion.
>>>>>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college.
>>>>>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own readers.
>>>>>> Gosh.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and
>>>>>>>>> have a clue how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me
>>>>>>>>> to do this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts
>>>>>>>>> and looking up material and research, but no I cannot bring a
>>>>>>>>> reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a legal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the
>>>>>>>>> option
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA.
>>>>>>>>> Its not fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower
>>>>>>>>> grade using bad readers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can
>>>>>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most
>>>>>>>>> teaching assistants are graduate students or advanced
>>>>>>>>> undergraduates in the department and should know the material
>>>>>>>>> well, and since they're trusted employees of the professor, they
>>>>>>>>> are trusted not to help you cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing
>>>>>>>>> else to do during an exam and would otherwise just be sitting
>>>>>>>>> around. If the class has no teaching assistant, as in a
>>>>>>>>> community college, maybe the professor could read it for you and
>>>>>>>>> scribe your answers during office hours the day before the test or
>> some such?
>>>>>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for
>>>>>>>>> testing, which allows them to pick people who are competent.
>>>>>>>>> Some disability services offices frown on this practice because
>>>>>>>>> they prefer to hire and manage readers themselves, but it's an
>>>>>>>>> option that's at least worth discussing with your professor, who
>>>>>>>>> might not
>>>>> care much.
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but
>>>>>>>>>> when I
>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> chem major and an A student.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department.
>>>>>>>>>> And then you interview them by having them read to you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt
>>>>>>>>>> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring
>>>>>>>>>>> between colleges, but the college I am leaving almost always
>>>>>>>>>>> provided me with
>>>>> competent
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words
>>>>>>>>>>> incorrectly But they knew how to read out loud.  I hope I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't run into the same problem you are dealing with right now
>>>>>>>>>>> and my next college.
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations
>>>>>>>>>>>> you get.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do
>>>>>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs?
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a
>>>>>>>>>>>> scantron,
>>>>>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my
>>>>>>>>>>>> readers were
>>>>>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak
>>>>>>>>>>> slower and repeat things; I mean they could not speak all that
>>>>>>>>>>> clearly and read fast
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>> jaws
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can
>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I
>>>>>>>>>>> missed.
>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll tell more about this specific test issue in another
>>>>>>>>>>>> message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Look forward to seeing your responses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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