[nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college science class for next semester

Tue May 21 23:24:28 UTC 2013

Hi,
I agree with Melissa that Arielle really captured this point. Well said!

Bridget

Sent from my iPad

On May 21, 2013, at 5:54 PM, "melissa Green" <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:

> very well said.
> I would add its really good to have someone fighting with, and for you.
> not against you.
> Hope that joshua can find someone to fight with and for him.
> 
> Blessings,
> Sincerely,
> Melissa and Pj
> Find me on:
> Twitter melissa5674
> facebook Melissa R Green
> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 7:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college 
> science class for next semester
> 
> 
> President Maurer talked about the Arizona case on last year's
> presidential report. The student's name is Sebastian Ibanez and I
> believe it was some kind of counseling psychology class, so I'm not
> sure what the issues were. Sebastian is an old friend of mine but
> we've lost contact, so I don't know more than that.
> I don't think it's discriminatory for a professor to share concerns
> with a blind student about accommodation problems. It is
> discriminatory for a professor to refuse to communicate with a student
> about accommodations or to forcibly drop a student from the class
> roster. At this point it sounds like Joshua is still signed up for the
> class, and can still attend even if the professor doesn't want him
> there. However, if the professor is unwilling to arrange necessary
> accommodations, or pressures Joshua into dropping the class, I believe
> that is still discriminatory behavior.
> Several years ago Stacy Cervenka, an old NABS member, talked about her
> experience taking a horseback riding class. She had a professor who
> bullied her, made rude comments to her in front of classmates, and
> strongly pressured her to drop. Stacy was very lucky that her DSS
> office is headed by a Federationist, who took prompt action to protect
> Stacy's right to remain in the class without harassment.
> So yes, discrimination in the college classroom is alive and well. We
> should all appreciate our professors who do abide by the law, and
> especially those who go out of their way to help us get the most out
> of their classes. And to the few who still give us trouble, we just
> have to keep standing up for ourselves.
> 
> Arielle
> 
> On 5/20/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Arielle,
>> that is  terrible. Which sort of class was this?
>> If they need to sue the school, then nfb will go for it and make a good
>> case.
>> Its so sad to see and hear about this discrimination.
>> I ran into problems finding a suitable course last semester as an 
>> elective.
>> 
>> As you all know, the literature professor raised many concerns to me and 
>> did
>> 
>> not want to accommodate me. He said that I could not take quizzes orally;
>> that his videos could not be brought outside class and replicate the
>> experience so I could get someone to describe them, and felt I would not 
>> be
>> 
>> able to follow the discussion because he directs students to specific 
>> pages
>> 
>> and passages to discuss points.
>> My ideas were shot down and when I suggested he call me, he did not and I
>> called him and politely requested he call me to discuss the class and see 
>> if
>> 
>> we could work around his concerns. Well, I did not take the class when my
>> dss counselor called me to say Prof C   came to her and she wanted to
>> discuss concerns and accomodations for the class.
>> I was very appalled he would speak to her without my consent and felt that
>> at that point he should speak to me so we could see if it was an 
>> appropriate
>> 
>> class for me.
>> 
>> Another class I wanted to take was marketing, but when I found out that 
>> two
>> 
>> professors used computer simulations as a marketing project and that was a
>> major part of the grade, I decided not to take the class. One professor 
>> said
>> 
>> that the simulation may be challenging for me to do and suggested I take 
>> it
>> 
>> with other professors and gave me their names. They did not use visual
>> online simulations! However, I could not take it with prof y and x because
>> it did not fit my schedule.
>> For the marketing professors, they were friendly in their corespondence, 
>> and
>> 
>> I did not consider it discrimination. Unfortunately, I believe their
>> concerns were legitimate and that the computer simulation would not be
>> accessible. Furthermore, one professor raised concerns about me following
>> her class with videos.
>> Again, I believe such a concern was legitimate and I'm glad she was up 
>> front
>> 
>> with her concerns and even sent me the syllabus ahead of time, even though 
>> I
>> 
>> did not request it.
>> It allowed me to make an informed decision regarding her class. She never
>> said not to take it though. She  was very curteous in her responses to me.
>> Now, that lit professor was not!
>> 
>> Anyway, discrimination never ends and I hope this geology situation is
>> resolved.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:18 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college
>> science class for next semester
>> 
>> Also, last year another blind student in Arizona was actually dropped
>> from a class by a professor just because he is blind. I believe he is
>> working with the NFB to sue the school. While you might or might not
>> want to go that far, it might help to call Meghan Sidhu at the
>> national center and just find out what's happening with that case and
>> what arguments you can use to ensure you aren't dropped from the class
>> without your consent.
>> 
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 5/19/13, justin <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I have taken two geography courses before.  An intro class, and the one
>>> right afterwards.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>>> Silverman
>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:29 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college
>>> science class for next semester
>>> 
>>> This professor is discriminating against you and that is unacceptable.
>>> Your disability office should advocate for you. If they don't, then go
>>> ahead
>>> and talk to the chair of the geology department or an associate dean or
>>> dean
>>> for the college. You may also be able to file an ADA complaint. While
>>> it's
>>> up to you how much or how long you want to fight, I think it's worth
>>> thinking about trying to prevent this professor from discriminating
>>> against
>>> other students in the future.
>>> There are many ways you can gain access to the course material,
>>> distinguish
>>> the rocks, etc. that don't cost the college much if anything at all. We
>>> can
>>> help you decide which accommodations to use but first you will need the
>>> professor to let you into the class. You can tell the professor that many
>>> blind students have taken geology courses and that you have help and
>>> support
>>> from other blind students, so the professor won't have to research the
>>> accommodations for you.
>>> 
>>> Arielle
>>> 
>>> On 5/20/13, Wasif, Zunaira <Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote:
>>>> You have the right to fight for this class, but do you want to fight?
>>>> You may be able to take a different class, Music Appreciation or
>>>> something else you enjoy.  Perhaps you can discuss other options with
>>>> your Dean.  Are you interested in this geology class?  If you really
>>>> want to take it then go for it!
>>>> Zunaira
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>>> Shelton
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:33 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] requesting some advice about choosing a college
>>>> science class for next semester
>>>> 
>>>> I absolutely agree with what has been stated.  This professor has no
>>>> right to pick and choose whether you take his class, (he can't pick
>>>> and choose his sighted students, right?)  If this is the class you
>>>> need to take then your disability services people need to help
>>>> advocate for you and set the record straight with this guy.  And, if
>>>> push comes to shove then you may need to file an ADA complaint about
>>>> that professor, which your DS office should be able to help you with as
>>> well.
>>>> 
>>>> On the issue of textbooks, the sooner you can figure out what you need
>>>> and get it to the appropriate people the better, be that Bookshare,
>>>> your DS office, or somewhere else.  A few other places you might want
>>>> to check are APH and the library of congress.  I have never taken a
>>>> geology course before, but I know APH has published several books of
>>>> tactile diagrams for different subjects which could get you what you
>>>> need and save time for the DS office that they can use to work on
>>>> otther aspects of your textbooks.  A lot of APH's books are also
>>>> available for free loans and you could send them back when you're done
>>>> with the class.  NLS might also have some textbooks on geology which
>>>> you can also borrow for free.
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/20/13, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> It is not up to the professor whether or not you take a class. If you
>>>>> sign up for the class, they are obligated to make all reasonable
>>>> accommodations.
>>>>> A good accommodation for this class might be an yb-class assistant
>>>>> (provided by your school's disability iddyxe)who could describe what
>>>>> each rock looks like. Then, when test time came, you would have to
>>>>> remember the descriptions and also weight when appropriate, and
>>>>> identify the rock based on information you ask for, such as what
>>>>> color
>>>> is it or does it have any marbling.
>>>>> This professor is being rude and discriminatory. If you really want
>>>>> to
>>>> 
>>>>> take the geology of rocks, there is no reason you couldn't. I just
>>>>> finished a geu-semester course in biology. The lab for the first
>>>>> course (microbiology )was almost exclusively microscope work.
>>>>> However,
>>>> 
>>>>> the disability office assigned me a lab assistant and many of the
>>>>> things that we were looking at under the microscope also had a
>>>>> tactile
>>>> 
>>>>> drawing. These accommodations helped me get a B in the class. What I
>>>>> am trying to say is that if microscope work can be made accessible,
>>>> surely so can rock geology.
>>>>> If your disability office and the dean of sciences can't or won't
>>>>> fight this discrimination on your behalf, you will have to fight
>>>>> harder if you want this class. You could go to the dean of students,
>>>>> a
>>>> 
>>>>> local disability efficacy group if one is nearby, abd/or contact your
>>>> NFB state president.
>>>>> Any of these should be able to help you. The most important thing is
>>>>> to stand up for your right to take any class you have met the
>>>>> prerequisites for, and be ready for a fight. If things don't go
>>>>> smoothly, you could be looking at a lawsuit.
>>>>> Now, lets tackle the issue of books. If you know which book or books
>>>>> you will need for next semester, great! An easy way to get the books
>>>>> would be to send a request to Bookshare. On the Bookshare page,
>>>>> select
>>>> 
>>>>> Contact Us, then select Requesting a Textbook from the dtuo-down menu.
>>>> 
>>>>> Tell them the book's title, author, edition, and, if you know it, its
>>>>> ISBN. Processing a textbook request is fast, but it takes two to
>>>>> three
>>>> 
>>>>> months before the book will be available through Bookshare. I have
>>>>> used this method when I knew the book far enough in advance, and the
>>>>> books are gufg-quality scans. The only drawback is the lack of
>>>>> alternative descriptions for pictures. Another method of obtaining
>>>>> your books is by requesting that the disability office provide you
>>>>> with accessible text. My disability office, for example, will take a
>>>>> copy of the book (you have to purchase it for ugrn), and scan each
>>>>> page with OCR, creating accessible text in a Word document. Then they
>>>>> go over it for errors, add page numbers and headings, and sometimes
>>>>> add alternative descriptions of pictures. Get the books to them as
>>>>> soon as possible, because most disability offices have to process a
>>>>> very large number of textbooks. Just be sure your disability office
>>>> does this before you purchase the books.
>>>>> I hope that has helped you, and I wish you the best of luck!
>>>>> -Jewel
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On May 20, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Joshua T Hendrickson
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello to all.  I'm glad to be a part of this list.  I am very close
>>>>>> to getting my Associates of Arts degree.  The only class I need to
>>>>>> take, is a geology science class with no lab.  I met with a
>>>>>> counselor
>>>> 
>>>>>> and I was going to take a class called Geology 206 which was all
>>>>>> about rocks and things like that.  The Dean of The science
>>>>>> department
>>>> 
>>>>>> had suggested I take this class, but there is a major problem.  The
>>>>>> teacher of this class doesn't want me to take the class.  This is
>>>>>> extremely frustrating.  I had went to my disability support office,
>>>>>> and asked Gloria to call the teacher and find out when I could meet
>>>>>> with him to talk about what acomidations I would need for the
>>>>>> upcoming class, the teacher wouldn't even talk to me on the phone.
>>>>>> He told gloria, there would be no way I could tell the different
>>>> rocks apart.
>>>>>> I was going to take this same class a couple semesters before but in
>>>>>> the summer not in the fall like I still might take this class.  Lynn
>>>>>> who heads the disability department talked with the dean of science
>>>>>> again, and now people are suggesting that I take an online class
>>>>>> called geology of the solar system.  Lynn told me she thought I
>>>>>> should take this class, because the lady who taught the class was
>>>>>> supportive and didn't mind if I take this class.  I don't really
>>>>>> want
>>>> 
>>>>>> to take an online class, because I don't know how accessible it will
>>>>>> be with jaws.  I was sent an email with a link to a page that was
>>>>>> kind of set up like what the online course would look like, but it
>>>>>> was very confusing.  Since there isn't much there as far as
>>>>>> assignments, or discussion questions, its very hard for me to figure
>>>>>> out if jaws will be able to read what needs to be read.  I'm going
>>>>>> to
>>>> 
>>>>>> meet tomorrow with Lyn, and the teacher of this online course, to
>>>>>> see
>>>> 
>>>>>> if I should take this class, although, I am already registered for
>>>>>> the lecture based geology rock class with the teacher who doesn't
>>>>>> even want me in his class.  Also, I don't even have any accessible
>>>>>> textbooks for either class yet, that is another concern.  Thanks for
>>>>>> reading this message.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti
>>>> 
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