[nabs-l] Over Night College Visit

Sun Nov 10 23:23:30 UTC 2013

Another great post!
I'd like to say that I'm not judging Lizzy either, but since the dog is as new as it is, Ashley's correct that this is too much too soon.
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett [bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:16 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit

Peter,
Wow, we agree for once.
I agree that Lizzy's dog situation is a symptom of a underlying problem with
dog programs.
I agree with you that many disruptive guide dog behaviors can and should be
addressed in training.
I have met some guide dogs who do lick and excessively sniff.
I also believe the owners should correct such behavior too after leaving the
formal dog training.
I believe with time the dog will improve. Remember Lizzy only had the dog
3.5 months!
I just do not think taking the dog for a overnight visit to a school is the
right place to train and get used to a dog.
There are certainly good and bad teams but I'm not judging Lizzy and the dog
because its so new.

However, I have met several guide dog teams that work wonderfully together.
Do you know Judy Dickson? She is consumer relations offericer of nls.
She and her dog work beautifully together. Her dog is clean. The dog does
NOT sniff. The dog does not smell or shed much!
The team is a neat pair! Judy trained her dog well during guide dog training
and afterward. What I think is so beautiful about this guide dog pair is the
dog reads her body language. She can even say a name of a colleague and the
dog turns in that direction!
If she says go to Ed's desk,  it does that.
The guide dog helps her walk so gracefully and smoothly! She does not veer
as some people do with canes.
This team is truly an excellent example! For anyone needing tips for guide
dog handling, ask Judy Dickson. She is one of the best handlers I met.
I also think good dog teams have a good walking stride and the dog stays
still and quiet when its at work.

Peter, I do hope you find a good school. You can also home train your guide
dog and correct its behavior if it is misbehaving.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:49 PM
To: tyler at tysdomain.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit

Good afternoon everyone,

    I have had four guide dogs including two from The Seeing Eye. None of
the guide dog programs I have had experience with measure up to my standards
of what a quality guide dog training program should be and what it should
expect of its teams when they leave. I've observed many of the same problems
others spoke of on this list. I and others believe that many of them could
have been addressed in training. It's for this reason that unless I find
myself traveling more in the future I have serious doubts about whether I'll
seek a replacement for my current dog Johnny when he retires. One thing that
would change my mind about going all cane is if the NFB were to start its
own guide dog program. Lizzie's situation is a symptom of an underlying
problem with every last guide dog program in this country! As a consumer of
services for the blind I'll set my standards and expect those from whom I
seek such services including guide dog training schools to meet or exceed
them and urge others to do the same.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----
From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit

Peter, have you ever had a guide?

On 11/10/2013 4:00 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
> Good afternoon Ashley and everyone,
>
>      If the person in question cannot handle their dog especially in new
> situations one wonders how they managed to graduate from guide dog
> training.
> If the guide dog program had done its job well its students should leave
> being able to handle their dogs in new situations with ease.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 2:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>
>
> Lizzy,
>
> I agree with Joshua. I'm a cane user btw.
> You seem unsure of handling your new dog in a new environment.
> I would leave your dog at home and let your family care for him or her.
> It’s a brief time so it should not mess up
> any working time you have.
>
> I think it will be less stressful and easier for you to navigate the
> campus
> with just your cane. You can have more tactile contact with surfaces then.
> You'd also have to plan to take your dog out to relieve him or herself and
> you don't know where that is.
>
> I would also be concerned about what  you said regarding the dog's
> behavior.
> Remember you want to present a good professional appearance. Points are
> that:
> 1. the dog  is very excited around new people. Keep in mind you are
> meeting
> all new very important people.
> 2. Her behavior is unpredictable. I believe a dog would be a distraction
> in
> such a situation when visiting a class.
> 3. The dog is sniffy in new environments and it interferes with her work.
> 4. You might offend people with the dog's untrained behavior.
>
> I have to say that I've seen new guide dogs act like you describe and it
> bothers me. I want to enjoy myself especially if I'm at a restaurant. But
> when I have dogs sniffing or licking me, its offensive. I do not! want to
> have dog saliva  on me when food is around. I do not want it on me if I
> cannot wash my hands. I do not want dogs rubbing against me because it can
> get dog hair on my slacks when I'm out and the dog hair shows.
> Now, do I like dogs? Yes, yes. I like dogs to play with in the yard or at
> a
> house when I'm dressed down. But when I'm dressed in slacks and a nice
> blouse, the last thing I want if a sniffy dog at my side or a dog licking
> me.
>
> There are plenty other times to work with and train your dog without going
> to the campus with her at this time.
> I think you two need to work together more and you have a chance to train
> and correct her so she exhibits more of a guide dog behavior.
> So, I'd keep the dog home. You can always revisit
> campus with your dog if you decide to go there.
>
> Speaking from experience, I find it offensive when guide dogs lick me.
> Now,
> if they are off harness its fine; they are just a dog then and not
> working.
> But when in the harness, I expect them not to bother me.
>
> Finally, if you choose to take your pooch, tell the campus. You should be
> in
> a room with someone who isn't alergic to dogs.
>
> Ashley
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lizzy
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:44 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>
> Hi All,
> I usually just read the outstanding advice given on this list,
> but now I am in need of some help.  I am currently a senior in
> high school going not for my first college visit, but to my first
> over night visit and it is at my number one choice school.  To
> all of the guide dog users, I've had my lab for about three and a
> half months now but I'm still undecided about if it would be fair
> and easier to take her with me on this trip.  My reasons are that
> I don't know the campus and so she would probably be doing a lot
> of following (which I know everyone has their own opinions
> about).  I've taught her things using the cane but it has usually
> been pretty simple (a specific doorway, bus stop etc) so I'm not
> sure if it'll work for this or not (since I'll be all over
> campus).  Also, her behavior is slightly unpredictable (typically
> she is very excited around new people and she is very sniffy in
> new places which interferes with her work and doesn't make her
> look like a trained dog).  I will be sitting in on a class, doing
> an interview, meeting with the department chair and rooming with
> a current student and I'm afraid she might offend someone who
> doesn't like dogs or vice versa someone may see me give a
> correction and be upset by it.  I haven't requested any
> accommodations because I don't really think I'll need any since
> I'll be there for less than twenty-four hours.  But is there
> anything I'm forgetting? Should I tell them ahead of time about
> the dog (if I decide to take her)? Any tips you all could give
> would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Lizzy
>
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--
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that
dares not reason is a slave.

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