[nabs-l] Over Night College Visit

Mon Nov 11 01:54:31 UTC 2013

Josh

It is my understanding that you expect a guy dog to not lick and put the dog into stressful environments Until the dog shows it can handle it, but how is the dog supposed to learn unless you put it into those type of experiences. A dog is not a cane you can just leave it at home. That is a waste of the hard earned training.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 10, 2013, at 6:36 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Hannah,
> Josh said guiding eyes was a good school. you confused remarks.
> He said the school in Ca was not the greatest and I have no clue which school this is although I plan to find out.
> 
> Its good you did not meet unruly guide dogs but I have although many teams are fine.
> I would hope if dogs misbehave that the handler takes steps to train him or her better. They know what to do to correct their dog.
> But every team is different and some will be a bad pair giving the whole dog user group a bad representation.
> 
> I hope Lizzy makes the right decision for her and her new four legged animal given the advice so far.
> I can understand why dog users would say what they say to her. Its her decision and only she will know if the dog can handle the new environment and stress. I hope it’s the right decision.
> 
> Ashley
> -----Original Message----- From: Hannah Chadwick
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
> 
> Ashley and Josh,
> Just so you know. Guiding Eyes is not in CA. I've heard a lot of great
> things about them and what it really boils down to is, you get out what you
> put in. this means that the amount of time, effort, and work you put in to
> your dog is what really matters. The school will give you tools and address
> many issues, but there will be new things that come up all the time. if you
> guys prefer the cane, that' is totally fine, but since either of you has
> never gone to a training program, I'd really appreciate it if you don't
> judge schools. Guide dogs are really expensive tools and are given to us
> free of charge. For that, I think all of us should be truly grateful. I
> strongly believe that all the schools do their best to train their guides
> and of course there are good teams as well as those that are not so great.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:28 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
> 
> I've heard good things about guiding eyes too.
> AS you said josh, its also a school thing. Some schools train their teams
> better than others.
> I've seen great dog teams, even at crowded state conventions, and bad teams.
> It's a matter of the training and also the dog handler's responsibility to
> correct bad behavior. Responsible dog handlers do this and also reward the
> dog too.
> 
> Josh, if you want a dog, just go to a school with the standards you want,
> not the one in CA.
> You could also seek out great dog teams and see where they got training.
> Judy Dickson and some of the employees working at NLS have great  well
> behaved dogs.
> In fact dogs are so quiet and still you would not know they are at that
> cubicle.
> 
> They do not make messes.
> They do not sniff excessively.
> And, no they do not get excited contrary  to what Tyler said. They met new
> people  all the time and still acted like guide dogs.
> 
> 
> Now, I'd love to meet Julie and her dog. Perhaps I will if I make it to
> national convention.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:59 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
> 
> Hi Julie.
> You're one of the best guide dog handlers I've observed in conventions.
> I wish everyone else that I was around was as responsible as you are!
> The school you trained at is wonderful, as well!
> All of my friends, who are guide dog users got them from Guiding Eyes.
> This one school in CA has ruined the perception of guide dogs for everyone,
> and that's why I'm addressing these issues, because this school has turned
> me against getting one for myself, if that's how they're going to act.
> Too bad there's not a Guiding Eyes school in Arkansas, affiliated with your
> school!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Julie McGinnity
> [kaybaycar at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:52 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I agree with Tyler here, and I also think that the fact that Lizzy is
> worried about offending people with her dog, is considering her dog's
> behavior, and is planning ahead by attempting to get advice from us
> means that she is a responsible dog handeler.  Let's not make
> judgements about her and how she lets her dog behave.  I went on
> college visits when I was a senior in high school, and my dog dealt
> well with it.  Yes, I had a new dog, and like Lizzy, I worried about
> how the dog would handle the new situation.  But my dog enjoyed the
> challenge of a new environment and settled quickly when she realized
> we had to sit in a classroom and be calm like we did in high school.
> Your dog, Lizzy, will most likely do the same.
> 
> As for what behaviors are acceptable, that is up to the handler, but
> most handlers don't want their dogs distracted by even sniffing
> people, let alone barking or jumping.  Remember that these dogs guide
> us around objects, stop at stairs for us, and observe traffic while we
> are in the streets.  Having a dog is a serious thing, and allowing it
> to be distracted can be dangerous.  I have faith that the majority of
> dog handlers do the best they can.  The school teaches us how
> important this is after all.
> 
> Another point, and I'll stop procrastinating.  :)  I do not anticipate
> being lonely or jobless because I have a dog.  I am dedicated to my
> dog's training, and when I get my next dog, it will continue.  The
> reality of having a new dog is that the dog's behavior will be a
> little unpredictable at times, and most people will accept this; if
> they don't, I say they probably weren't going to accept you with a dog
> no matter how good the behavior.  Part of the new dog issue is the
> bond that hasn't quite formed between handler and dog, and the other
> part is that using a guide dog is new.  At least, for Lizzy it is.
> But Lizzy, you went to training, and I believe you are responsible and
> intelligent.  You understand what the dog's bad behavior means to
> others, and if you know how to control it successfully(which I'm sure
> you do), I believe you could have a very positive experience with a
> dog at this college visit.
> 
>> On 11/10/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Great post, Ashley!
>> Also, what about the dogs that do their mess anywhere they want to, or
>> roam
>> around the room, when not being handled?
>> That has happened way too much where I'm from!
>> Train them correctly, and expect them to act right!
>> You wouldn't believe the number of times I've accidently stepped in dog,
>> (don't even go there,) at conventions, and at World Services for the
>> Blind!
>> Most of these dogs, I knew came from a certain dog school, in CA, because
>> that's where most of those trainees at WSB, when I was there, got them!
>> That's the handlers' fault, and they should be doing their jobs!
>> Thank God this hasn't happened at the NFB conventions I attended!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett
>> [bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:21 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>> 
>> Mark,
>> I guess we won't agree. But I cannot help from making a point again.
>> I have been offended by  disruptive guide dogs.
>> I would say to Lizzy to take the dog if it were not so new. I would have
>> no
>> problem with her with a dog on a new campus if it did not sniff people or
>> exhibit other behavior she mentioned.
>> I fully support taking a dog to college if you will live and stay there.
>> 
>> You can say its people's problem for being offended all your life, but
>> when
>> you are lonely or do not get a job because of your dog's behavior, you
>> might
>> think again.
>> 
>> I respect guide dog handlers and do know its their right to have them in
>> public places. However, I think with legal rights comes responsibility.
>> You
>> have the responsibility to keep your dog well groomed and behaving like a
>> working dog. This means no licks, no sniffs, and no jumps. Oh, and should
>> I
>> mention barks?
>> Yes, dogs will get excited with new people I know, even guide dogs. But to
>> what extent should people put up with the dog in a professional setting
>> before saying enough is enough? It's a hard line to draw. With rights
>> comes
>> responsibility.
>> I think you have to consider others too even though its your right to have
>> a
>> guide dog.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mark J. Cadigan
>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:11 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Perhaps you should ask your question on the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users (NAGDU) list serve. All the people on the NAGDU list are
>> themselves guide dog handlers, and have first hand experience to draw from
>> when giving advice.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Me personally, I am a guide dog handler, and current college student. I
>> would definitely take my dog with me on the college visit, and in fact I
>> have gone on college visits with my guide dog in the past. What people say
>> about informing the college that you have a guide dog and requesting
>> accommodations for printed materials is good advice. I would definitely do
>> so, not only to make your life easier while on the college visit, but to
>> get
>> an idea of the school's willingness to work with you when you are a
>> student.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My theory about people not liking my guide dog is that it is there problem
>> and not mine. I have the legal right to be accompanied by my guide dog,
>> and
>> if someone is offended for whatever reason to bad for them. That being
>> said,
>> you have to be polite to the people who are offended, however you should
>> stand your ground, and never back down on your rights.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The people who think it is a simple decision to leave your dog with
>> someone
>> while on the college visit, are clearly not dog handlers, and have no clue
>> what they are talking about. That being said, when you have your dog on
>> the
>> college visit, it is your responsibility to be firm with the dog, and not
>> let it test you. People may object to you correcting your dog, but they
>> are
>> just ignorant, and do your best to politely ignore them.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Feel free to email me off list
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "lizzy" <lizzym0827 at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:44 AM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> I usually just read the outstanding advice given on this list, but now I
>>> am in need of some help.  I am currently a senior in high school going
>>> not
>>> for my first college visit, but to my first over night visit and it is at
>>> my number one choice school.  To all of the guide dog users, I've had my
>>> lab for about three and a half months now but I'm still undecided about
>>> if
>>> it would be fair and easier to take her with me on this trip.  My reasons
>>> are that I don't know the campus and so she would probably be doing a lot
>>> of following (which I know everyone has their own opinions about).  I've
>>> taught her things using the cane but it has usually been pretty simple (a
>>> specific doorway, bus stop etc) so I'm not sure if it'll work for this or
>>> not (since I'll be all over campus).  Also, her behavior is slightly
>>> unpredictable (typically she is very excited around new people and she is
>>> very sniffy in new places which interferes with her work and doesn't make
>>> her look like a trained dog).  I will be sitting in on a class, doing an
>>> interview, meeting with the department chair and rooming with a current
>>> student and I'm afraid she might offend someone who doesn't like dogs or
>>> vice versa someone may see me give a correction and be upset by it.  I
>>> haven't requested any accommodations because I don't really think I'll
>>> need any since I'll be there for less than twenty-four hours.  But is
>>> there anything I'm forgetting? Should I tell them ahead of time about the
>>> dog (if I decide to take her)? Any tips you all could give would be
>>> greatly appreciated.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
> 
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