[nabs-l] Training centers not the real world

Mon Nov 11 14:56:28 UTC 2013

Hello,
I have had to read this thread, listening to people complaining about
having resources which are simply non-existent in England. I live here
and if you'd like to live here as well, I can promise you there are no
such things as "Light Houses" or "Blind Preschool" or, ha ha ha,
"Training Centres" for the blind, unless you count a couple of
dedicated schools for the blind which haven't been closed down yet. In
this country, there are gangs who specialise in guide dog bashing. I
remember a girl who wouldn't leave the house with her cane because
some people in her area found it funny to spit on her. I've never been
to America although I have read about the extraordinary work The NFB
does. If I had access to even half the things you are moaning about, I
would be extatic! I could go on about The NLS and how people this side
of the world aren't permitted access to web Braille, let alone the
hard copy Braille books available but I won't. I could also talk about
how Braille transcription is billed by the hour not the page. Come and
live here for a month and you'll be greatful for what you have.

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 11/11/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi to all.  I have been reading this thread with great interest.
> After I get my associates of Arts degree in January, I will be going
> to Icrewood in Chicago which is an in state training center to learn
> some indipendent living skills.  For me, I need to attend this center
> so I can get the skills I'll need when I leave for college.
> Personally I would have liked to attend an NFB training center, but it
> is very difficult in Illinois to get VOC. rehab to pay for out of
> state services.  As for schools for the blind, I was mainstreamed
> through my Junior year of High School then attended the school for the
> blind for 3 years.  Personally, I like mainstreaming a lot better.  I
> feel the education I received in public school was better than what I
> received at ISVI.  I wish I had learned algebra while at ISVI because
> I would have gotten my associates degree a lot quicker and not have
> had to take so many remedial math classes.  Like others have already
> stated, it is up to the individual whether to go to a center or not.
> I did receive some daily living skills while at the school for the
> blind, but since I didn't use them when I came back home, I lost them.
>  We were never allowed to use the stove or oven unattended which to me
> kind of defeated the purpose of them trying to teach us to cook.
> Anyway have a grat day all, and there are my thoughts for whatever
> they may be worth.
>
> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Minh,
>>
>> I think you have a lot of great points. I wish I had been raised with
>> opportunities to build confidence.
>>
>> As for the research, I am excited about the paper that Arielle brought
>> up. When I was justifying to my state that I had the right to an
>> informed choice and to go to an out-of-state training center, Al
>> Spooner at BLIND, Inc. taught me that one success measure is whether a
>> graduate obtains employment or starts school within a year of
>> graduating from training. There are flaws to this. For example, I
>> think one year is a long time, and who says employment obtained is the
>> desired job. Plus, many people go blind as older adults, so one may
>> attend a training center for more daily living skills and decide later
>> that they don't want to work anymore. But it is a quantafiable
>> measure. I think that the NFB training centers have success rates
>> according to these  measures in the 90 percentile or higher and the
>> state training enter in NC had a 16% rate according to that measure.
>> But the paper will probably provide more insight on this.
>> Unfortunately there is not a lot of research like this going on, and
>> not a lot of good blindness-related journals to publish in.
>>
>> I would say that going to a training center does not remove you from
>> society. I think that is a misconception. Just as going to class takes
>> up time and working a job takes time, going to training during the day
>> does take time. And there are some field trips that were all day or
>> overnight, but school and work have these requirements as well. I made
>> friends outside the center, volunteered, and explored Minneapolis. I
>> did not choose to work or do an internship during training, but I
>> realize that could have provided another great experience. Once I
>> wasn't in class, my time was mine. I happened to make friends with
>> center students just as you would make friends with neighbors and
>> classmates. I didn't hang out because they were blind or because
>> someone told me I had to. I hung out with them, and the other sighted
>> people I met in Minneapolis because I met them and they were cool
>> people.
>>
>> The NFB training center philosophy is all encompassing. For example,
>> your life outside of class does give you opportunities to practice
>> your skills and you are expected to use your nonvisual techniques at
>> home and in the community. However, I don't think that this
>> experiential part of training meant that my time outside of class
>> wasn't mine, and so therefore, I feel that I was not "removed" from
>> society.
>>
>> I realize that statement was kind of a segue from the original topic,
>> but it is one that I am passionate about. I had several naysayers and
>> people make fun of me for going to training because they perceived it
>> as a time when I would be removing myself from society. But it was
>> just the opposite. It has allowed me to take more advantage of what
>> society has to offer. Someone who already possesses these skills and
>> confidence could then perceive this as unnecessary, but I realized
>> that I needed the opportunity to be successful.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 11/10/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Arielle,
>>> I'm really interested in this topic. Is the paper available for
>>> viewing online? I would love to read it.
>>>
>>> On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Min,
>>>>
>>>> I think you make some good points and I agree that experience is the
>>>> best teacher. However, I think part of what the centers do is to
>>>> provide opportunities for that experience. Many of us who were
>>>> sheltered didn't even get the chance to try things out, much less
>>>> learn the proper nonvisual way to do them. For example, one thing I
>>>> did for the first time at LCB was light candles. I had never been
>>>> allowed to do anything with matches before I went to LCB. My teacher
>>>> at LCB taught me a few tricks but mostly it was just me being required
>>>> to swallow my fear and strike a match and put it to the candle.
>>>> Through that experience I learned how to tell when the candle was lit
>>>> and how to put the match out safely. That said, I did have decent
>>>> skills before coming to the center and I think I probably could have
>>>> been reasonably successful without center training. But I had
>>>> specialized blindness training at the preschool and in-home
>>>> instruction in daily living skills because my parents didn't feel
>>>> confident enough to teach me a lot of things themselves at home. I do
>>>> think the center gave me a lot of confidence even if I did have skills
>>>> and even though I know how to learn things on my own.
>>>> Also, I combined my center training with a research internship, so I
>>>> don't feel like I put my life on hold. It was just two mornings a week
>>>> so it didn't interfere with classes, but it really helped my resume. I
>>>> probably would not have gotten the research internship if I hadn't
>>>> gone to the center since it was at Louisiana Tech. I know some center
>>>> students have a brief volunteer stint or take a college class while
>>>> they are at the center as part of their training. So it isn't just
>>>> blindness training the whole time. In addition, I had a lot of amazing
>>>> social experiences while I was there that I probably won't have again
>>>> as a working, married woman.
>>>>
>>>> You also ask how success is measured. Regrettably, I think most of the
>>>> evidence is anecdotal. However, Dr. Bell at Louisiana Tech did
>>>> recently conduct a study which showed that NFB center graduates have
>>>> higher employment rates and earn higher incomes than those who
>>>> attended traditional centers or no center at all. Actually, the rates
>>>> were lower among traditional center grads than among those who
>>>> attended no center, but the rates were highest among those who
>>>> attended NFB centers. I have read his paper and as a researcher I
>>>> think the research was conducted well and with as little bias as
>>>> possible. However, it is impossible to tell if the center training
>>>> actually caused the increase in employment or if people who choose to
>>>> go to NFB centers have other attributes that make them more
>>>> employable. More rigorous research has to be done. Furthermore,
>>>> unemployment was still pretty high even among the NFB center
>>>> graduates, so NFB training doesn't completely fix the unemployment
>>>> problem. But it's a step in the right direction.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 11/10/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Bridgit,
>>>>> You were lucky your parents taught you just as they taught your
>>>>> sisters.
>>>>> That is how it should be. But my experience was the opposite. I had  a
>>>>> two
>>>>> parent middle class household. My older brothers learned a little bit
>>>>> by
>>>>> observation. We never did have to do chores because my parents would
>>>>> rather
>>>>>
>>>>> do that. But when my brothers were teens, I recall that they did do
>>>>> chores
>>>>> ocasionally. When holidays came or when we had an ocasional party or
>>>>> guests
>>>>>
>>>>> come such as that time my aunt and cousins came, my brothers did help
>>>>> in
>>>>> chores.
>>>>> However, my parents taught me little about housework and personal
>>>>> care.
>>>>> Did they teach me about manners and behavior? Yes.
>>>>> Did they teach me basic play skills? Yes. I remember my dad describing
>>>>> what
>>>>>
>>>>> a tricycle was and how to ride it and then telling me to ride my bike
>>>>> with
>>>>> training wheels once I got that.
>>>>> They also told me about dinner etiquette such as placing a napkin in
>>>>> your
>>>>> lap and chew with mouth  closed.
>>>>> In this regard, I learned about behavior with my brothers. In fact,
>>>>> I've
>>>>> met
>>>>>
>>>>> blind youth who lack this knowledge and its sad to know their parents
>>>>> did
>>>>> not expect this of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> But when it comes to home management skills and personal skills, my
>>>>> parents
>>>>>
>>>>> did not do anything. Only thing is my mom did say black and blue did
>>>>> not
>>>>> go
>>>>>
>>>>> together. Personal skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>>>>> Okay, mom did help me learn to dress myself and very basic stuff but
>>>>> other
>>>>> more advanced dressing skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>>>>> She taught me how to zip a coat and how to button clothes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many parents just do for their blind kids because its faster and less
>>>>> stressful.
>>>>> So you were quite fortunate your parents taught you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bridget Walker
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:57 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is my take and I warn you it is strong. You talk about Jonny who
>>>>> has
>>>>> autism. Did anyone catch on to the difference in the label. The thread
>>>>> emphasizes this "we as blind people" thing and I know we have had this
>>>>> talk
>>>>>
>>>>> are we really going to put a disability first? This is just me I was
>>>>> born
>>>>> with sight  but lost it very early on in life. I actually don't
>>>>> remember
>>>>> much from when I had bits of vision and I'm not totally blind but
>>>>> pretty
>>>>> close.
>>>>> So how do I know what I do? My parents taught me just as they taught
>>>>> my
>>>>> sisters who are sighted and I understood everything. Did it take me
>>>>> longer?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes yes but, for me I did not have to do anything different.
>>>>> That's not to say I did not go to a training center or a school for
>>>>> the
>>>>> blind.
>>>>> I went to a center for two five week programs when my vision was
>>>>> getting
>>>>> worse in my youth. I needed to gain ONM and tech skills. I also needed
>>>>> to
>>>>> learn to cook. As a college student I still fail lol.
>>>>> Finally I went to a school for the blind for two years of high school.
>>>>> That
>>>>>
>>>>> had nothing to do with my inability to reach expectations  but my
>>>>> public
>>>>> school gave up. I was classified as having a visual processing
>>>>> learning
>>>>> disability rather then being blind.
>>>>> That bit about schools for the blind being for multiple disabled
>>>>> students
>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>> not true. I was in a setting where students were working to state
>>>>> standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> I spent two years there and was able to do work back at my public
>>>>> school
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> graduate with the mainstream students. Lets face it I never really
>>>>> really
>>>>> left.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do we send blind people to training centers? Why do we send blind
>>>>>> people to "schools for the blind" We as blind people live in the real
>>>>>> world,Why do we do it? You don't see mom sending Johnny who has
>>>>>> autism
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> aschool for autistic kids!
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>
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>
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