[nabs-l] Training centers not real world
justin williams
justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Tue Nov 12 22:25:47 UTC 2013
If you attend the national convention, the training centers are highly
toubted all week long. Though I am careful of how much of the nfb coolaide
I drink, and catch phrases I swallow, I've just got to give a big thumbs up
to our training centers. I am one of those individuals who have not had the
opportunity to attend one myself as of yet, but I'll just give a big thank
you to all of the staff who have done such a good job with the training, and
a congradulations to all of the fine folks who have been deamed skilled
enough to have graduated.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
Pollpeter
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:11 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not real world
They are not teaching job skills, per say. NFB centers and good
government centers teach the Structured Discovery Method. This method is
taught because it allows one to apply it's application to any given
situation. Job, school, life in general. It provides one with the tools
and methods that can be applied to pretty much any situation. So you are
better equipped to deal with life.
Training centers were established to teach blind adults and those who
didn't learn proper skills when younger. Few have proactive parents who
allow their blind child to learn and explore like any other child. Many
of these children are not taught proper skills either. Let's not forget
that 90% of legally blind kids are not receiving Braille education, or
it's a very lack-luster education. And when you lose your sight later in
life, you are faced with re-learning how to do many things. Plus, you
are now dealing with the societal perceptions that try to hold people
back. Without positive training centers, most of us who lost sight later
in life would flounder and find no direction.
Attending a training center doesn't equate to automatic success, but
neither does college or a new job. It's what you do with what you have.
It's still up to an individual to attempt to achieve a goal. Training
centers just help blind adults along in this process by providing tools
like Braille, travel and adaptive technology and assisting many to find
confidence so many lack when initially becoming blind. So many of you
have been blind since birth or childhood. Imagine losing it after years
of being sighted. It's not always an easy transition. Training centers
have helped many make this transition.
It's not the goal of centers to provide specific job skills; they teach
skills that will help one that can be applied to most situations.
College is a lot like this. Trust me, college will teach you
theoreticals, but once on the job, you must apply and adapt these skills
to practical situations.
So please stop knocking what most training centers are attempting to do.
It's great a few of you have managed to become independent and
successful without a training center, but trust me, this is the
exception and not the rule. And remember, schools for the blind and
training centers for the blind are two entirely different things, and
I'm only addressing training centers.
Bridgit
Bridgit
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:18:31 -0500
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real
world
Message-ID: <249401cedf23$93204ca0$0902a8c0 at S0032244625>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I could be wrong here, but I don't really see where rehabilitation
centers
are teaching both social and job skills. RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> Minh,
>
> You seem to have had a very fortunate experience. I lost my sight as
an
> adult, but in my experience, most blind people, especially children,
> don't have an experience like yours. If more families adopted an
> attitude like yours, we may not be having this discussion.
>
> And on a side note, I notice few people have analytical reasoning
skills
> and the ability to be self-taught regardless of disability. Some
people,
> for whatever reason, don't possess the ability to learn this way,
> therefore requiring a more formal teaching process.
>
> And life skills, these can easily be taught to blind people without
> shipping off to a specialized training center. But skills like
Braille,
> adaptive technology, cane travel, etc., these are specialized skills
> that are not always easily picked up. It's for these skills that
> training centers are necessary.
>
> I think how we comport ourselves has a lot to do with how the world
> perceives us and our abilities. Right or wrong, when you present
> yourself to an employer, they are immediately judging you based on
> physical appearance. If you walk in well-groomed, confident and
polite,
> this goes a long way, sighted or blind. If you enter a room appearing
to
> not be confident and not looking polished physically and mentally, an
> employer will automatically have red flags. This is just human nature.
>
> So, sadly, few blind people are provided the experience afforded you
in
> this department. They don't naturally possess confidence, and
> regretfully, many people in their lives do not foster a spirit of
> confidence. So without training centers, I do think fewer people would
> be employed. This isn't to say that getting a job will be easy as a
> blind person because you received training or carry yourself with
> confidence, but your chances certainly are better.
>
> And yes, a few studies have been conducted pointing to the advantage
of
> attending a training center for the blind. Those with this background,
> especially those not taught nonvisual skills beforehand, do better in
> school, employment and life in general.
>
> Bridgit
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:33:06 -0500
> From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAAJqG9hYUgmy=_M2GLmwOmdknimkhUc6Y=Fgg8fBdHC0z6RX-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep saying
how
> going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to gain
> employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these success
> stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain employment
> afterwards because of their new found independence skills and are
these
> numbers higher than those that do not attend training centers? Maybe
> it's different for me because I had vision for the first few years of
my
> life, but all the skills that I've acquired over the years, I learned
> from my family and friends. I remember growing up, cooking was one of
> the activities that my best friend and I experimented together; she
> didn't know cooking skills either so we played around in the kitchen
and
> taught ourselves how to use a stove, etc. I think we place too much
> responsibility on others--if I want to learn something, I teach myself
> or I ask someone who knows it to teach me. Furthermore, I can't see
> myself taking 6-9 months to essentially remove myself from society to
> focus on blindness skills so I can gain employment. I have had many
> internships and opportunities in college because I actually go out
there
> and network and present myself to potential employers. My point is
> experience is the best teacher--I can learn all the independence
skills
> I need at a center, but it's not going to do me any good without the
> experience.
>
> Minh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
40gm
ail.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:20:32 -0500
From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID:
<CAFja7Fbprrv88n3xFZ2zPab5LjexdR-6G_Ag59uLVn-P357d3w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I think the answer to this is no, as the sighted don't usually know
what the training centers are or what they do, but they would care if
he can use braille or a screenreader to access a bible and complete
his job as well as any sighted pastor.
On 11/11/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> I could be wrong here, but I don't really see where rehabilitation
centers
> are teaching both social and job skills. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>
>
>> Minh,
>>
>> You seem to have had a very fortunate experience. I lost my sight as
an
>> adult, but in my experience, most blind people, especially children,
>> don't have an experience like yours. If more families adopted an
>> attitude like yours, we may not be having this discussion.
>>
>> And on a side note, I notice few people have analytical reasoning
skills
>> and the ability to be self-taught regardless of disability. Some
people,
>> for whatever reason, don't possess the ability to learn this way,
>> therefore requiring a more formal teaching process.
>>
>> And life skills, these can easily be taught to blind people without
>> shipping off to a specialized training center. But skills like
Braille,
>> adaptive technology, cane travel, etc., these are specialized skills
>> that are not always easily picked up. It's for these skills that
>> training centers are necessary.
>>
>> I think how we comport ourselves has a lot to do with how the world
>> perceives us and our abilities. Right or wrong, when you present
>> yourself to an employer, they are immediately judging you based on
>> physical appearance. If you walk in well-groomed, confident and
polite,
>> this goes a long way, sighted or blind. If you enter a room appearing
to
>> not be confident and not looking polished physically and mentally, an
>> employer will automatically have red flags. This is just human
nature.
>>
>> So, sadly, few blind people are provided the experience afforded you
in
>> this department. They don't naturally possess confidence, and
>> regretfully, many people in their lives do not foster a spirit of
>> confidence. So without training centers, I do think fewer people
would
>> be employed. This isn't to say that getting a job will be easy as a
>> blind person because you received training or carry yourself with
>> confidence, but your chances certainly are better.
>>
>> And yes, a few studies have been conducted pointing to the advantage
of
>> attending a training center for the blind. Those with this
background,
>> especially those not taught nonvisual skills beforehand, do better in
>> school, employment and life in general.
>>
>> Bridgit
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:33:06 -0500
>> From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <CAAJqG9hYUgmy=_M2GLmwOmdknimkhUc6Y=Fgg8fBdHC0z6RX-g at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>
>> All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep saying
how
>> going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to gain
>> employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these success
>> stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain employment
>> afterwards because of their new found independence skills and are
these
>> numbers higher than those that do not attend training centers? Maybe
>> it's different for me because I had vision for the first few years of
my
>> life, but all the skills that I've acquired over the years, I learned
>> from my family and friends. I remember growing up, cooking was one of
>> the activities that my best friend and I experimented together; she
>> didn't know cooking skills either so we played around in the kitchen
and
>> taught ourselves how to use a stove, etc. I think we place too much
>> responsibility on others--if I want to learn something, I teach
myself
>> or I ask someone who knows it to teach me. Furthermore, I can't see
>> myself taking 6-9 months to essentially remove myself from society to
>> focus on blindness skills so I can gain employment. I have had many
>> internships and opportunities in college because I actually go out
there
>> and network and present myself to potential employers. My point is
>> experience is the best teacher--I can learn all the independence
skills
>> I need at a center, but it's not going to do me any good without the
>> experience.
>>
>> Minh
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
40gm
> ail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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gmail.com
>
--
Kaiti
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:27:51 -0500
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <656D6A1FD9ED4A54A16B7F3989FD3917 at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
RJ,
No your employer won't care if you went to a training center.
But he or she will! care that you have the skills to do a job.
You have to get to work on time, communicate with technology and more.
So all we are saying is that there are skill benefits to going to a
center
and such benefits help people succeed and change lives.
-----Original Message-----
From: RJ Sandefur
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:15 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
If Joe Blind gos for ajob interview in order to be the pastor at
Anywhere
baptist church, do you think thechurch is going to care weather or not
Joe
Blind went to Anywhere rehab center for the blind? RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> Minh,
>
> You seem to have had a very fortunate experience. I lost my sight as
an
> adult, but in my experience, most blind people, especially children,
> don't have an experience like yours. If more families adopted an
> attitude like yours, we may not be having this discussion.
>
> And on a side note, I notice few people have analytical reasoning
skills
> and the ability to be self-taught regardless of disability. Some
people,
> for whatever reason, don't possess the ability to learn this way,
> therefore requiring a more formal teaching process.
>
> And life skills, these can easily be taught to blind people without
> shipping off to a specialized training center. But skills like
Braille,
> adaptive technology, cane travel, etc., these are specialized skills
> that are not always easily picked up. It's for these skills that
> training centers are necessary.
>
> I think how we comport ourselves has a lot to do with how the world
> perceives us and our abilities. Right or wrong, when you present
> yourself to an employer, they are immediately judging you based on
> physical appearance. If you walk in well-groomed, confident and
polite,
> this goes a long way, sighted or blind. If you enter a room appearing
to
> not be confident and not looking polished physically and mentally, an
> employer will automatically have red flags. This is just human nature.
>
> So, sadly, few blind people are provided the experience afforded you
in
> this department. They don't naturally possess confidence, and
> regretfully, many people in their lives do not foster a spirit of
> confidence. So without training centers, I do think fewer people would
> be employed. This isn't to say that getting a job will be easy as a
> blind person because you received training or carry yourself with
> confidence, but your chances certainly are better.
>
> And yes, a few studies have been conducted pointing to the advantage
of
> attending a training center for the blind. Those with this background,
> especially those not taught nonvisual skills beforehand, do better in
> school, employment and life in general.
>
> Bridgit
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:33:06 -0500
> From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAAJqG9hYUgmy=_M2GLmwOmdknimkhUc6Y=Fgg8fBdHC0z6RX-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep saying
how
> going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to gain
> employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these success
> stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain employment
> afterwards because of their new found independence skills and are
these
> numbers higher than those that do not attend training centers? Maybe
> it's different for me because I had vision for the first few years of
my
> life, but all the skills that I've acquired over the years, I learned
> from my family and friends. I remember growing up, cooking was one of
> the activities that my best friend and I experimented together; she
> didn't know cooking skills either so we played around in the kitchen
and
> taught ourselves how to use a stove, etc. I think we place too much
> responsibility on others--if I want to learn something, I teach myself
> or I ask someone who knows it to teach me. Furthermore, I can't see
> myself taking 6-9 months to essentially remove myself from society to
> focus on blindness skills so I can gain employment. I have had many
> internships and opportunities in college because I actually go out
there
> and network and present myself to potential employers. My point is
> experience is the best teacher--I can learn all the independence
skills
> I need at a center, but it's not going to do me any good without the
> experience.
>
> Minh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
40gm
ail.com
_______________________________________________
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ink.net
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:28:36 -0500
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <18141A82748B448EBE608E01F4253B15 at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
RJ,
They do teach job skills. just talk to a center graduate and you'll get
the
answer.
-----Original Message-----
From: RJ Sandefur
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:18 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
I could be wrong here, but I don't really see where rehabilitation
centers
are teaching both social and job skills. RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> Minh,
>
> You seem to have had a very fortunate experience. I lost my sight as
an
> adult, but in my experience, most blind people, especially children,
> don't have an experience like yours. If more families adopted an
> attitude like yours, we may not be having this discussion.
>
> And on a side note, I notice few people have analytical reasoning
skills
> and the ability to be self-taught regardless of disability. Some
people,
> for whatever reason, don't possess the ability to learn this way,
> therefore requiring a more formal teaching process.
>
> And life skills, these can easily be taught to blind people without
> shipping off to a specialized training center. But skills like
Braille,
> adaptive technology, cane travel, etc., these are specialized skills
> that are not always easily picked up. It's for these skills that
> training centers are necessary.
>
> I think how we comport ourselves has a lot to do with how the world
> perceives us and our abilities. Right or wrong, when you present
> yourself to an employer, they are immediately judging you based on
> physical appearance. If you walk in well-groomed, confident and
polite,
> this goes a long way, sighted or blind. If you enter a room appearing
to
> not be confident and not looking polished physically and mentally, an
> employer will automatically have red flags. This is just human nature.
>
> So, sadly, few blind people are provided the experience afforded you
in
> this department. They don't naturally possess confidence, and
> regretfully, many people in their lives do not foster a spirit of
> confidence. So without training centers, I do think fewer people would
> be employed. This isn't to say that getting a job will be easy as a
> blind person because you received training or carry yourself with
> confidence, but your chances certainly are better.
>
> And yes, a few studies have been conducted pointing to the advantage
of
> attending a training center for the blind. Those with this background,
> especially those not taught nonvisual skills beforehand, do better in
> school, employment and life in general.
>
> Bridgit
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:33:06 -0500
> From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAAJqG9hYUgmy=_M2GLmwOmdknimkhUc6Y=Fgg8fBdHC0z6RX-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep saying
how
> going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to gain
> employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these success
> stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain employment
> afterwards because of their new found independence skills and are
these
> numbers higher than those that do not attend training centers? Maybe
> it's different for me because I had vision for the first few years of
my
> life, but all the skills that I've acquired over the years, I learned
> from my family and friends. I remember growing up, cooking was one of
> the activities that my best friend and I experimented together; she
> didn't know cooking skills either so we played around in the kitchen
and
> taught ourselves how to use a stove, etc. I think we place too much
> responsibility on others--if I want to learn something, I teach myself
> or I ask someone who knows it to teach me. Furthermore, I can't see
> myself taking 6-9 months to essentially remove myself from society to
> focus on blindness skills so I can gain employment. I have had many
> internships and opportunities in college because I actually go out
there
> and network and present myself to potential employers. My point is
> experience is the best teacher--I can learn all the independence
skills
> I need at a center, but it's not going to do me any good without the
> experience.
>
> Minh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
40gm
ail.com
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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ink.net
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:10:53 -0600
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP156CCEF348B06132AF532ECC4FF0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
It's situations like this that no training center seems equipped with.
No system is perfect, and this extends to both private and government
training centers for the blind.
There's suppose to be field staff available for those who, for various
reasons, can't attend in-house training. But due to budgeting, few
receive home training, or the visits are so few and far between, it
really isn't teaching a person much. And sadly, those determined
ineligible for employment, stay-at-home parents, the sick, those
mentally not able, etc., tend to be ignored altogether. I know from
first-hand experience because I initially was very sick, which caused my
blindness. While I recovered, I saw a VR counselor twice, and though I
was promised home training, I never once met with someone. Once
recovered, I attended the center in Iowa, but before this, nothing, and
I could have benefited from some training.
I had the initiative to use problem-solving skills and figure out a lot
for myself, including cane travel, but Braille and JAWS were skills
beyond my ability to comprehend enough to teach myself.
Nonetheless, if able, attending a training center is pretty vital for
most, though clearly there can be exceptions. And 6 to 9 months out of a
lifetime really isn't that long, especially considering you gain a
lifetime of independence, or are at least provided with the tools and
resources to live independently.
Having said that, being a mom, I don't know how I would manage training
if I had to do it at this point in my life. In a perfect world, someone
would be available to meet with people like this a few times a week to
work on the skills, but no agency or organization is currently equipped
for this, and most lack the funding to do so. I've unsuccessfully
presented my local agency with the idea of a volunteer program of people
who could provide this resource. It would be all volunteered based,
though they would still need to prove they can accurately teach the
skills, but this seems like a simple solution.
Bridgit
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:56:24 -0500
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>, "National Association of Blind Students
mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <00b801cedefe$f59bc910$0902a8c0 at S0032244625>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I agree with Joe! What about a blind adult who has just gone blind, and
she
has a ten year old daughter? My friend is unable to attend a training
center
due to her having a child. RJ
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:20:54 -0600
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP21126C588B2254F22F8BBA8C4FF0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ashley,
The options aren't as readily available as you present here. This is a
major obstacle for pretty much all training centers, and this includes
the NFB centers.
Bottom line, if you can't attend in-house training, or at least attend
as a day student every day for the duration of the 6 to 9 months, most
are out of luck. And finding a two-day or weekend program isn't enough
to teach the skills. These are just introductory programs to allow
people the opportunity to see what training would be like. And other
institutions aren't equipped to provide the kind of home training you
suggest or even offer day programs.
The biggest issue is funding, and a little secret, the government
doesn't want to pay for training for seniors or stay-at-home parents or
the sick because they are determined unemployable, and therefore will
not put money back into the system. This is the reality for any agency
working with people with disabilities.
Bridgit
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:18:55 -0500
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: <tyler at tysdomain.com>, "National Association of Blind Students
mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <A6CA2458FE0047ABAFE10E060C7CA7BC at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Tyler,
No its not an issue with training centers. If people cannot go to one
due to
circumstances, that does not invalidate the work the center does.
It just shows more options need to be available. I'd like to see more
home
based teaching where a teacher comes to your home to teach you privately
using your own equipment and marking them if needed.
Rj, your friend should look at other options. Has she asked about
receiving
services from her vr agency?
They may contract with itenerant O&M and rehab teaching specialists who
can
help her at home.
Has she investigated community options such as a lighthouse? If she
lives in
NC, there is the Metrolina Association for the blind; if in GA, there
are
two day centers such as the Center for the visually impaired in Atlanta.
Those are just a few examples. TThere may be options. You just have to
find
them.
Ashley
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:30:41 -0600
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP190722FAF87E9D536CE0B4CC4FF0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Steve,
I completely agree. Without nonvisual skills, I couldn't effectively
care for my kids. I'm safe in the knowledge that I can care for my kids
just like anyone else, but if I lacked certain nonvisual skills, I doubt
I could safely and effectively watch after young children. Most
parenting is based on problem-solving and figuring out as you go along,
but as most blind people know, there are a few things, a few tools, we
require to make life more efficient. Most of what I do as a parent,
hell, most of what I do as a human being, is no different than those who
are sighted, but sometimes I rely on a different tool or method to
achieve the same outcome. So in the long-run, yes, training will only
enhance the parenting process, making you more efficient and confident.
I am sensitive to those in this situation though. Finding child care can
be difficult and expensive. I believe you should try your best in this
situation, but I also understand there are parents who don't have the
support or finances to make this easier. This is definitely a problem to
be further explored.
Bridgit
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:44:42 -0600
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <auto-000014396418 at mailback3.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
RJ,
It is really hard to know what is going to work in an individual case
such as that of your friend. In general,
though, one really has to weigh what learning certain skills well might
mean for bringing up a child in the long
run. I believe, for example, that it is pretty hard to become a
confident independent traveler without putting in
some serious time learning and experiencing. If one is not a confident
traveler, for example, one is going to
find it more difficult to get one's child where that child needs to be,
or to be there for that child. Your
friend may not have had any options in terms of family who could take
care of the child, and there could be other
considerations, but to simply state that one can't leave one's child to
take training seems very short-sighted to
me, and I am a parent so I am not unfamiliar with the dilema.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:37:42 -0600
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not real world
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP163704548A653B468B90753C4FF0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ummm... This may have nothing to do with blindness and training or lack
thereof, but when consistently posting with errors and misspellings, it
doesn't assist in the argument against a training center, particularly
when written by a blind person.
Bridgit
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:48:56 -0500
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <260d01cedf30$35eb7250$0902a8c0 at S0032244625>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ashley, the rehab center I attended did not teach any job skills or
anything. Sure they had us read a bunch of hand outs, but any one can
read a
bunch of hand outs and pass a test! RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> RJ,
> They do teach job skills. just talk to a center graduate and you'll
get
the
> answer.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:18 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>
> I could be wrong here, but I don't really see where rehabilitation
centers
> are teaching both social and job skills. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>
>
> > Minh,
> >
> > You seem to have had a very fortunate experience. I lost my sight as
an
> > adult, but in my experience, most blind people, especially children,
> > don't have an experience like yours. If more families adopted an
> > attitude like yours, we may not be having this discussion.
> >
> > And on a side note, I notice few people have analytical reasoning
skills
> > and the ability to be self-taught regardless of disability. Some
people,
> > for whatever reason, don't possess the ability to learn this way,
> > therefore requiring a more formal teaching process.
> >
> > And life skills, these can easily be taught to blind people without
> > shipping off to a specialized training center. But skills like
Braille,
> > adaptive technology, cane travel, etc., these are specialized skills
> > that are not always easily picked up. It's for these skills that
> > training centers are necessary.
> >
> > I think how we comport ourselves has a lot to do with how the world
> > perceives us and our abilities. Right or wrong, when you present
> > yourself to an employer, they are immediately judging you based on
> > physical appearance. If you walk in well-groomed, confident and
polite,
> > this goes a long way, sighted or blind. If you enter a room
appearing to
> > not be confident and not looking polished physically and mentally,
an
> > employer will automatically have red flags. This is just human
nature.
> >
> > So, sadly, few blind people are provided the experience afforded you
in
> > this department. They don't naturally possess confidence, and
> > regretfully, many people in their lives do not foster a spirit of
> > confidence. So without training centers, I do think fewer people
would
> > be employed. This isn't to say that getting a job will be easy as a
> > blind person because you received training or carry yourself with
> > confidence, but your chances certainly are better.
> >
> > And yes, a few studies have been conducted pointing to the advantage
of
> > attending a training center for the blind. Those with this
background,
> > especially those not taught nonvisual skills beforehand, do better
in
> > school, employment and life in general.
> >
> > Bridgit
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:33:06 -0500
> > From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > <CAAJqG9hYUgmy=_M2GLmwOmdknimkhUc6Y=Fgg8fBdHC0z6RX-g at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> >
> > All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep saying
how
> > going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to
gain
> > employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these success
> > stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain employment
> > afterwards because of their new found independence skills and are
these
> > numbers higher than those that do not attend training centers? Maybe
> > it's different for me because I had vision for the first few years
of my
> > life, but all the skills that I've acquired over the years, I
learned
> > from my family and friends. I remember growing up, cooking was one
of
> > the activities that my best friend and I experimented together; she
> > didn't know cooking skills either so we played around in the kitchen
and
> > taught ourselves how to use a stove, etc. I think we place too much
> > responsibility on others--if I want to learn something, I teach
myself
> > or I ask someone who knows it to teach me. Furthermore, I can't see
> > myself taking 6-9 months to essentially remove myself from society
to
> > focus on blindness skills so I can gain employment. I have had many
> > internships and opportunities in college because I actually go out
there
> > and network and present myself to potential employers. My point is
> > experience is the best teacher--I can learn all the independence
skills
> > I need at a center, but it's not going to do me any good without the
> > experience.
> >
> > Minh
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
> nabs-l:
> >
>
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> ail.com
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:01:16 -0500
From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID:
<CAAJqG9hy7_4hihUL1Ea5Mxm_WBLOy3iPSKm_AtjTBNmMTf190Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Kaiti brings up some excellent points that I didn't consider until
until now. I went to public school all my life and had many
opportunities to be an integral part of my school community. I held
leadership positions in various clubs and was an AP student. I don't
think there are any schools for the blind out there that could give
their students this level of academic rigor that would prepare them
for college life. In fact, college enrollment right out of graduation,
which I like to point out is usually at 21 instead of the normal 17-18
is extremely rare if not nonexistent. As for the schools for the blind
giving their students the chance to play sports that they wouldn't
otherwise get in a mainstream school, I don't think that's valid at
all. I didn't play any sports at all because I was into academics more
than athletics, but there are sports that don't require sight such as
cross country, swimming, wrestling, etc that mainstreamed students can
participate in. Also, I think someone on an earlier post said that
school districts don't care about blind students and they just want to
ship them off to school for the blind because it's easier. That is an
entirely pessimistic and untrue view of all school systems. I was able
to excel in school because I had an amazing TVI as well as a wonderful
support system from my teachers that helped me to realize my own
potential. I think it definitely depends on the situation but I also
think people should be more proactive in their own learning as well
instead of waiting on others.
Minh
On 11/11/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I will admit upfront that I did not read this entire thread, as I am
> trying to type a quick reply between classes, but here is what my
> parents thought and what I believe as well.
>
> I'm not in any way knocking training centers; I think they're great
> for those who need or prefer to get the training they need in that
> manner. I think that choice is totally subjective to the individual
> person.
>
> However, in terms of schools for the blind, I have always been
> thurroughly confused as to their purpose. Like others I've talked to,
> going to the school for the blind was a bad thing---a threat my mom
> used to kick me into gear as a child. If I didn't want to do my
> homework, she'd threaten to send me to the Ohio State School for the
> Blind, where people would make me do it, and I wouldn't get the choice
> of doing it right after school or later before bed. My mom also
> wanted to instill the idea that I could be independent in me at a very
> early age, so the idea of having someone else be so custodial over me
> made me instantly do whatever it was that I didn't want to do at the
> time.
>
> In reality, my parents thought very briefly about sending me to the
> state school when I was young, but a blind woman they consulted on the
> matter said I was too bright for it. I have the impression that most
> schools for the blind provide sub-par academics, and while a much
> larger portion of their student bodies have multiple disabilities in
> addition to blindness, my parents did not want that to hold me back
> from reaching my potential. So, they enrolled me in my local
> elementary school, and kept me in the public school system from
> pre-school to graduation. From what I've seen and heard this is the
> case for an ever increasing number of blind students, who are capable
> of doing the same work---even being labeled as gifted and going on to
> be honors and AP students in high school. Some of these kids do not
> have the opportunities to do AP courses at schools for the blind, and
> miss out on time and money-saving opportunities for college in the
> process.
>
> I disagree that going to a school for the blind hinders one's ability
> to get involved in extracurriculars, even when you specifically talk
> about sports. My parents found non-profit organizations which hosted
> sporting events for kids with disabilities and they worked out fine
> for me. Top Soccer was one I and a few friends of mine participated
> in, and I did Special Olympics swimming when I was in middle school
> too. I think the advantage of doing sports through these
> organizations rather than as a student at a school for the blind is
> that you gain perspective on people with other disabilities; one of my
> best friends in soccer was a boy who used a walker, and we became a
> tag team on the field. My job was to find the ball and get it down
> field, then I would pass it to him and he'd take shots at the goal.
> So, it was a nice way for us to learn that in spite of our
> disabilities, we could still be successful, probably the design of our
> parents. I also getting really mad at a kid on the same team who was
> the coach's son, because he would always push me down for what I
> thought was no apparent reason. It took me a while to understand that
> he wasn't doing it to be mean or that he really couldn't help it, but
> once I got it I was able to understand him and others like him better.
> Even after I stopped participating in sports specifically set up for
> kids with disabilities to participate, I still found activities to do
> at school. I was a member of the Academic Quiz Team, the drama club
> and in the cast of a Shakespeare play, and even did marching band
> without assistance. I don't think you should expect adaptations or
> modifications to be provided for you like they are at the schools for
> the blind, and doing these things while taking a trial and error
> approach to finding ways to do them as well as sighted classmates, is
> one of the best ways to learn how to do it with other things in the
> future. Example, in quiz team I got my study packets in braille, and
> read books on subjects that other kids weren't as familiar on, like
> Genetics, Music History, and Anatomy to make up for the other subjects
> I didn't have as much access to. This worked out really well in cases
> when the category was, "Composers from the 1600s," or "Anatomy of the
> eye." In marching band I worked with my director to come up with a
> way for me to read the field diagrams, which to my knowledge is a
> totally original system based on what my needs were and the solutions
> we came up with to work.
>
> I also think it is the responsibility of the parents to do a lot of
> the training for their child. I know my parents did it for me, and
> although I resisted at times I'm thankful for what they did to help me
> learn to be independent. On that same note, I disagree with the claim
> that blind people cannot teach themselves how to do things, as I
> believe there should come a point where mom and dad should step back,
> and you should have the confidence in your abilities to try to learn
> to do things yourself. That is what I'm doing now with cooking, and I
> love how I'm teaching myself. Have I burned things? Yes. Have I had
> to put meat back on the stove to cook it a little longer because I
> misjudged how cooked it really was? Yes, but it's through experience
> that we learn, and sometimes doing things ourselves is in our own
> favor. In the cooking vein, I've asked my mom to teach me before, but
> she's always been busy, or when we have cooked she usually has ended
> up taking over. She also has a fear of me getting burned, so when I
> got to college and wanted to make a burger, I didn't let the fact that
> my mother never taught me hold me back from getting what I wanted,
> even if my first attempt was not perfect. Different parents will
> teach their blind children different things, and sometimes they have
> one thing they don't do as well as others in that area. When those
> weak areas become apparent and one has the resources and capability to
> teach themself to make up for it, I think they should because
> ultimately it is their independence that is effected.
>
> I do not regret my parents decision to put me in public school,
> because in spite of the rough patches where I didn't have a textbook
> for my last year of Spanish, or my parents were duking it out in an
> IEP meeting, I developed self-advocacy, independence, and
> communication skills which are serving me well in college an hour away
> from my family. Even in cooking I am becoming more self-sufficient,
> and I'm not afraid to figure things out as I go, problem-solve, and
> make them work. That, I think, is a skill that is lacking at the
> schools of the blind since the staff is much more custodial. I could
> be wrong there, but that's what I've seen from my state school at
> least.
>
> Just my thoughts.
> On 11/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> RJ,
>> Your friend may also be able to speak to the director of whichever
center
>> she would like to attend, and arrangements may be able to be made for
her
>> to
>>
>> bring her child with her. This probably would not work in a dormitory
>> setting, but since the NFB centers use apartments instead of
dormitories,
>> sometimes, it can be worked out for a parent to bring their child to
stay
>> with them in the apartment while they attend the center. Your friend
may
>> have to work out child care or after school care for the child while
she
>> is
>>
>> attending center classes during the day, but the director of the
center
>> may
>>
>> be able to refer her to resources she can use for that or work with
her
>> on
>> that aspect so she will be able to finish her training successfully.
>> I am currently going through this myself, as I am a single mother,
but
>> the
>> director has been willing to allow me to bring my child and also help
me
>> work out the child care situation so that I will have the opportunity
to
>> attend the center and get the training I need. I am planning to
attend
>> next
>>
>> year, so I am not there yet, but the director has been very open to
me
>> bringing my child and has assured me that we will work everything out
so
>> I
>> can attend. I am just in the process of getting VR in my state to
allow
>> me
>> to go. The one I am trying to attend is the Colorado Center, but your
>> friend
>>
>> may be able to discuss her situation with any of the directors of any
of
>> the
>>
>> centers she would like to attend, and they will probably work with
her on
>> it.
>> Thanks,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Jacobson
>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:44 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>
>> RJ,
>>
>> It is really hard to know what is going to work in an individual case
>> such
>> as that of your friend. In general,
>> though, one really has to weigh what learning certain skills well
might
>> mean
>>
>> for bringing up a child in the long
>> run. I believe, for example, that it is pretty hard to become a
>> confident
>> independent traveler without putting in
>> some serious time learning and experiencing. If one is not a
confident
>> traveler, for example, one is going to
>> find it more difficult to get one's child where that child needs to
be,
>> or
>> to be there for that child. Your
>> friend may not have had any options in terms of family who could take
>> care
>> of the child, and there could be other
>> considerations, but to simply state that one can't leave one's child
to
>> take
>>
>> training seems very short-sighted to
>> me, and I am a parent so I am not unfamiliar with the dilema.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:05:28 -0500, RJ Sandefur wrote:
>>
>>>Men, Thank you for that point. My friend Rohanda went blind four
years
>>> ago.
>>>Her daughter is Ten years old. Our ehab agency wanted to send her to
a
>>>training center. She doesn't want to leave her child. RJ
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "minh ha" <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:33 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>
>>
>>>All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep saying
>>>how going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to
>>>gain employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these
>>>success stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain
>>>employment afterwards because of their new found independence skills
>>>and are these numbers higher than those that do not attend training
>>>centers? Maybe it's different for me because I had vision for the
>>>first few years of my life, but all the skills that I've acquired
over
>>>the years, I learned from my family and friends. I remember growing
>>>up, cooking was one of the activities that my best friend and I
>>>experimented together; she didn't know cooking skills either so we
>>>played around in the kitchen and taught ourselves how to use a stove,
>>>etc. I think we place too much responsibility on others--if I want to
>>>learn something, I teach myself or I ask someone who knows it to
teach
>>>me. Furthermore, I can't see myself taking 6-9 months to essentially
>>>remove myself from society to focus on blindness skills so I can gain
>>>employment. I have had many internships and opportunities in college
>>>because I actually go out there and network and present myself to
>>>potential employers. My point is experience is the best teacher--I
can
>>>learn all the independence skills I need at a center, but it's not
>>>going to do me any good without the experience.
>>
>>>Minh
>>
>>>On 11/10/13, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> good points thus far, and great discussion.
>>>> The idea of schools for the blind (at least as I understand them)
is
>>>that
>>>> students in these schools may get the proper instruction in
skills
>>>> that
>>>> would allow them to be as successful in the classroom as their
>>>classmates.
>>>> They may also benefit from gaining access to sports that are
adapted
>>>> for
>>>the
>>>> blind where in the public school setting these things are not
always
>>>readily
>>>> available .
>>>> In the training center environment, you are learning skills that
will
>>>help
>>>> you become confident and competent enough to compete and
succeed
>>>> in
>>>the
>>>> world. in our NFB training centers, we learn the skills that
enable
>>>> us
>>>to
>>>> be successful and gain the attitude and belief that not only
can we
>>>> lead productive successful, and meaningful lives, but that this
>>>> should
>>>> be the exact expectation we should have for ourselves.
>>>> So, while the implication one might get is that such learning
>>>environments
>>>> shelter people from the real world , it is my view that
generally
>>>> speaking they can serve to help you be prepared for that real
world
>>>> in
>>>a
>>>> way that matriculating through mainstream schooling might leave
you
>>>> otherwise ill equipped to do.
>>>> Darian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>
>>
>>>--
>>>"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
dusty
>>>recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>>but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:15:34 -0600
From: "Loren Wakefield" <theweird1 at mediacombb.net>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
Message-ID: <011401cedf33$ece7e670$c6b7b350$@mediacombb.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Peter,
Pls write me offlist. I have some questions for you that I've been told
you have excellent info on.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Donahue
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:21 PM
Theweird1 at mediacombb.net
Loren Wakefield
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
Good evening everyone,
He may have been thinking of Guide Dogs for the Blind in San Rafael
California. Recall that a resolution was adopted during this year's
national convention concerning their treatment of their blind employees
and other practices. They've had a checkered history over the years. One
area in which they could have excelled in is training and hiring blind
guide dog instructors something an NFB-run guide dog program would do.
We all ready have blind cane travel instructors so why not full-fledged
blind guide dog trainers and class instructors. To date no guide dog
program including The Seeing Eye has trained and hired blind persons as
guide dog instructors.
Several years ago I and a few other NAGDU Members drafted The Guide
Dog Consumer's Bill of Rights. This document outlined what we in the NFB
believe to be the rights of guide dog consumers and if adopted by our
guide dog programs would have changed many of the demeaning and
custodial policies all too common to these outfits. To the best of my
knowledge none of our guide dog schools have signed on to the Guide Dog
Consumer's Bill of Rights.
If anything they've tried to water it down. So far the NFB has resisted
their efforts. You can find it on the NAGDU and NFB Web Sites or search
for the term "Guide Dog Consumer's Bill of Rights." You'll find in that
document many of the things an NFB-run guide dog program would
implement. Hope this will begin to start answering some of your
questions.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
Hannah,
Josh said guiding eyes was a good school. you confused remarks.
He said the school in Ca was not the greatest and I have no clue which
school this is although I plan to find out.
Its good you did not meet unruly guide dogs but I have although many
teams
are fine.
I would hope if dogs misbehave that the handler takes steps to train him
or
her better. They know what to do to correct their dog.
But every team is different and some will be a bad pair giving the whole
dog user group a bad representation.
I hope Lizzy makes the right decision for her and her new four legged
animal
given the advice so far.
I can understand why dog users would say what they say to her. Its her
decision and only she will know if the dog can handle the new
environment
and stress. I hope it?s the right decision.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Hannah Chadwick
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:09 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
Ashley and Josh,
Just so you know. Guiding Eyes is not in CA. I've heard a lot of great
things about them and what it really boils down to is, you get out what
you
put in. this means that the amount of time, effort, and work you put in
to
your dog is what really matters. The school will give you tools and
address
many issues, but there will be new things that come up all the time. if
you
guys prefer the cane, that' is totally fine, but since either of you has
never gone to a training program, I'd really appreciate it if you don't
judge schools. Guide dogs are really expensive tools and are given to us
free of charge. For that, I think all of us should be truly grateful. I
strongly believe that all the schools do their best to train their
guides
and of course there are good teams as well as those that are not so
great.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
I've heard good things about guiding eyes too.
AS you said josh, its also a school thing. Some schools train their
teams
better than others.
I've seen great dog teams, even at crowded state conventions, and bad
teams.
It's a matter of the training and also the dog handler's responsibility
to
correct bad behavior. Responsible dog handlers do this and also reward
the
dog too.
Josh, if you want a dog, just go to a school with the standards you
want,
not the one in CA.
You could also seek out great dog teams and see where they got training.
Judy Dickson and some of the employees working at NLS have great well
behaved dogs.
In fact dogs are so quiet and still you would not know they are at that
cubicle.
They do not make messes.
They do not sniff excessively.
And, no they do not get excited contrary to what Tyler said. They met
new
people all the time and still acted like guide dogs.
Now, I'd love to meet Julie and her dog. Perhaps I will if I make it to
national convention.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
Hi Julie.
You're one of the best guide dog handlers I've observed in conventions.
I wish everyone else that I was around was as responsible as you are!
The school you trained at is wonderful, as well!
All of my friends, who are guide dog users got them from Guiding Eyes.
This one school in CA has ruined the perception of guide dogs for
everyone,
and that's why I'm addressing these issues, because this school has
turned
me against getting one for myself, if that's how they're going to act.
Too bad there's not a Guiding Eyes school in Arkansas, affiliated with
your
school!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Julie McGinnity
[kaybaycar at gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
Hi all,
I agree with Tyler here, and I also think that the fact that Lizzy is
worried about offending people with her dog, is considering her dog's
behavior, and is planning ahead by attempting to get advice from us
means that she is a responsible dog handeler. Let's not make
judgements about her and how she lets her dog behave. I went on
college visits when I was a senior in high school, and my dog dealt
well with it. Yes, I had a new dog, and like Lizzy, I worried about
how the dog would handle the new situation. But my dog enjoyed the
challenge of a new environment and settled quickly when she realized
we had to sit in a classroom and be calm like we did in high school.
Your dog, Lizzy, will most likely do the same.
As for what behaviors are acceptable, that is up to the handler, but
most handlers don't want their dogs distracted by even sniffing
people, let alone barking or jumping. Remember that these dogs guide
us around objects, stop at stairs for us, and observe traffic while we
are in the streets. Having a dog is a serious thing, and allowing it
to be distracted can be dangerous. I have faith that the majority of
dog handlers do the best they can. The school teaches us how
important this is after all.
Another point, and I'll stop procrastinating. :) I do not anticipate
being lonely or jobless because I have a dog. I am dedicated to my
dog's training, and when I get my next dog, it will continue. The
reality of having a new dog is that the dog's behavior will be a
little unpredictable at times, and most people will accept this; if
they don't, I say they probably weren't going to accept you with a dog
no matter how good the behavior. Part of the new dog issue is the
bond that hasn't quite formed between handler and dog, and the other
part is that using a guide dog is new. At least, for Lizzy it is.
But Lizzy, you went to training, and I believe you are responsible and
intelligent. You understand what the dog's bad behavior means to
others, and if you know how to control it successfully(which I'm sure
you do), I believe you could have a very positive experience with a
dog at this college visit.
On 11/10/13, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> Great post, Ashley!
> Also, what about the dogs that do their mess anywhere they want to, or
> roam
> around the room, when not being handled?
> That has happened way too much where I'm from!
> Train them correctly, and expect them to act right!
> You wouldn't believe the number of times I've accidently stepped in
dog,
> (don't even go there,) at conventions, and at World Services for the
> Blind!
> Most of these dogs, I knew came from a certain dog school, in CA,
because
> that's where most of those trainees at WSB, when I was there, got
them!
> That's the handlers' fault, and they should be doing their jobs!
> Thank God this hasn't happened at the NFB conventions I attended!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett
> [bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:21 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>
> Mark,
> I guess we won't agree. But I cannot help from making a point again.
> I have been offended by disruptive guide dogs.
> I would say to Lizzy to take the dog if it were not so new. I would
have
> no
> problem with her with a dog on a new campus if it did not sniff people
or
> exhibit other behavior she mentioned.
> I fully support taking a dog to college if you will live and stay
there.
>
> You can say its people's problem for being offended all your life, but
> when
> you are lonely or do not get a job because of your dog's behavior, you
> might
> think again.
>
> I respect guide dog handlers and do know its their right to have them
in
> public places. However, I think with legal rights comes
responsibility.
> You
> have the responsibility to keep your dog well groomed and behaving
like a
> working dog. This means no licks, no sniffs, and no jumps. Oh, and
should
> I
> mention barks?
> Yes, dogs will get excited with new people I know, even guide dogs.
But to
> what extent should people put up with the dog in a professional
setting
> before saying enough is enough? It's a hard line to draw. With rights
> comes
> responsibility.
> I think you have to consider others too even though its your right to
have
> a
> guide dog.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark J. Cadigan
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:11 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Perhaps you should ask your question on the National Association of
Guide
> Dog Users (NAGDU) list serve. All the people on the NAGDU list are
> themselves guide dog handlers, and have first hand experience to draw
from
> when giving advice.
>
>
>
> Me personally, I am a guide dog handler, and current college student.
I
> would definitely take my dog with me on the college visit, and in fact
I
> have gone on college visits with my guide dog in the past. What people
say
> about informing the college that you have a guide dog and requesting
> accommodations for printed materials is good advice. I would
definitely do
> so, not only to make your life easier while on the college visit, but
to
> get
> an idea of the school's willingness to work with you when you are a
> student.
>
>
>
> My theory about people not liking my guide dog is that it is there
problem
> and not mine. I have the legal right to be accompanied by my guide
dog,
> and
> if someone is offended for whatever reason to bad for them. That being
> said,
> you have to be polite to the people who are offended, however you
should
> stand your ground, and never back down on your rights.
>
>
>
> The people who think it is a simple decision to leave your dog with
> someone
> while on the college visit, are clearly not dog handlers, and have no
clue
> what they are talking about. That being said, when you have your dog
on
> the
> college visit, it is your responsibility to be firm with the dog, and
not
> let it test you. People may object to you correcting your dog, but
they
> are
> just ignorant, and do your best to politely ignore them.
>
>
>
> Feel free to email me off list
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lizzy" <lizzym0827 at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:44 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Over Night College Visit
>
>
>> Hi All,
>> I usually just read the outstanding advice given on this list, but
now I
>> am in need of some help. I am currently a senior in high school
going
>> not
>> for my first college visit, but to my first over night visit and it
is at
>> my number one choice school. To all of the guide dog users, I've had
my
>> lab for about three and a half months now but I'm still undecided
about
>> if
>> it would be fair and easier to take her with me on this trip. My
reasons
>> are that I don't know the campus and so she would probably be doing a
lot
>> of following (which I know everyone has their own opinions about).
I've
>> taught her things using the cane but it has usually been pretty
simple (a
>> specific doorway, bus stop etc) so I'm not sure if it'll work for
this or
>> not (since I'll be all over campus). Also, her behavior is slightly
>> unpredictable (typically she is very excited around new people and
she is
>> very sniffy in new places which interferes with her work and doesn't
make
>> her look like a trained dog). I will be sitting in on a class, doing
an
>> interview, meeting with the department chair and rooming with a
current
>> student and I'm afraid she might offend someone who doesn't like dogs
or
>> vice versa someone may see me give a correction and be upset by it.
I
>> haven't requested any accommodations because I don't really think
I'll
>> need any since I'll be there for less than twenty-four hours. But is
>> there anything I'm forgetting? Should I tell them ahead of time about
the
>> dog (if I decide to take her)? Any tips you all could give would be
>> greatly appreciated.
>> Thanks,
>> Lizzy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> _______________________________________________
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m
>
--
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16
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------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:36:22 -0500
From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID: <007101cedf36$d50c3c60$7f24b520$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Great comments all around. The only thing I would add from my
perspective is
that one needs to be blunt with oneself to determine whether or not they
could benefit from making a training center a priority. I think everyone
could benefit from going to one. Some may even benefit from going back,
but
you have to go for yourself. Part of the reason why I rejected the idea
of
going to a training is the NFB peer pressure that if I did not go to a
Center, I would never fully reach my full potential. That sort of
thinking
drove me nutty, and by nature, I set out to prove them wrong. But, I'd
also
put this nonsense aside and asked myself whether taking time off school
was
in my best interest. Could I learn enough for the returns to be worth
the
investment? The answer still came back in the negative, so I did not
enroll.
But, I fell back on the high expectations of strict parents. In the
Latino
culture, or at least in my Latino household, if I didn't pull my fair
share
around the house, I was spanked. Simple as that. At school I drew a
vision
teacher who had the worse reputation in our district for being a
stickler. I
love that lady to no end for being such a hard ass during my high school
years. As far as O&M, I remember one day in seventh grade I got so fed
up
with navigating the Galleria, one of Houston's massive malls. I threw
down
my cane and actually began to cry like a little baby. My O&M instructor
came
over, asked what was the deal. We talked about it. I got back up and
found
the damned hotel registration desk I'd been sent to find on the other
side
of the complex. The only thing I regret is not having had the sleep
shade
training. I got to what I think could be the same level of confidence as
those who underwent this style of training. But, I took the scenic route
to
get there. So, in some ways you could argue my own logic about returns
could
be flawed. My point is, go for yourself, not for anyone else, and set
specific goals. Not everyone needs to be a whiz in the kitchen. Not
everyone
needs to excel at computers. I don't much care for some opinions that
you
have to do everything well to be truly independent. That's bogus and
deprives us of the same natural individuality that exists among our
sighted
peers. I think some of the blind instructors at our training centers
could
do with something like a sabbatical outside of the blindness field to
take a
break, brush up on new skills and bring back a fresh perspectives on the
challenges you can't fully stay on top of if your world is living and
breathing a blindness independence philosophy.
Joe
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:01:26 -0700
From: johnnie Jean duran <johnniejduran at gmail.com>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Help with self-advocacy because of a teacher.
Message-ID:
<CAOiA0Sv2U7ZTHzn9Hg3sV71bWKeumHYkUFm4aD+dZZtN3txnsQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dear National Association of Blind Students,
As some of you may know, I am currently an 8th grade student attending
O'Connell Middle School, and every trimester, every student gets to
change there 1-tri long electives that they've picked. So, basically,
we get different classes. The class I have decided to choose was
cooking (Family and Consumer Science), I chose this class because I
was attempting to find a class in which I can participate in
independently. I have cooked food before, and
--
Ms. Johnnie Jean Duran
8th Grade Student
O'Connell Middle School - An IB World School
Member Of The National Federation Of The Blind Of Colorado, The
Colorado Association Of Blind Students, and the North Metro Chapter of
the NFB.
Facebook: facebook.com/johnniejean.duran
Instagram: jj_duran13
Skype: jj.duran13
Kik: jjd_13
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:03:58 -0700
From: "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Help with self-advocacy because of a teacher.
Message-ID: <B786878A-999A-409C-95CA-57CCF6926A52 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Your message stopped after the partial sentence "I have cooked food
before and? "Also call me I need to talk to you.
Sent from my iPhone 5S Using VoiceOver
> On Nov 11, 2013, at 5:01 PM, johnnie Jean duran
<johnniejduran at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear National Association of Blind Students,
> As some of you may know, I am currently an 8th grade student attending
> O'Connell Middle School, and every trimester, every student gets to
> change there 1-tri long electives that they've picked. So, basically,
> we get different classes. The class I have decided to choose was
> cooking (Family and Consumer Science), I chose this class because I
> was attempting to find a class in which I can participate in
> independently. I have cooked food before, and
>
> --
> Ms. Johnnie Jean Duran
> 8th Grade Student
> O'Connell Middle School - An IB World School
> Member Of The National Federation Of The Blind Of Colorado, The
> Colorado Association Of Blind Students, and the North Metro Chapter of
> the NFB.
> Facebook: facebook.com/johnniejean.duran
> Instagram: jj_duran13
> Skype: jj.duran13
> Kik: jjd_13
>
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------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:11:12 -0700
From: johnnie Jean duran <johnniejduran at gmail.com>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Self-Advocacy Question
Message-ID:
<CAOiA0StKVyKJ1pX6e6sQJ=P33fXhv_uM8jpkMOn8hsuif8hpbA at mail.gmail.com>
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Dear National Association of Blind Students,
As some of you may know, I am currently an 8th grade student attending
O'Connell Middle School, and every trimester, every student is allowed
to switch electives and pick a new one. I decided to choose cooking
(family and consumer science) as my selection, however my TVI and the
cooking teacher are both implying that I will need a para with me in
there at all times. I chose cooking because it is something I am good
at, and I do it all the time. But, both teachers are persisting that I
need a para. What should I tell them, because they aren't listening?
Do I need an advocate?
Thanks,
JJ
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:11:56 -0700
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] [rehab] Blind and Visually Impaired Adult
Rehabilitation and Employment Survey:Final Results
Message-ID:
<CALAYQJBQeMgFp90WTsmptKbgAYZF5jvJtwfrMC3VQERup4=Bew at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
This is the research report I was talking about.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Edward Bell <ebell at latech.edu>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 08:33:25 -0500
Subject: [rehab] Blind and Visually Impaired Adult Rehabilitation and
Employment Survey:Final Results
To: NOMCT Committee <certificationtrainersnomct at lists.nbpcb.org>, NOMC
mailing list <nomc at nbpcb.org>, nclb at lists.nbpcb.org,
pibe-division at nfbnet.org, Rehab Mailing list <rehab at nfbnet.org>
Blind and Visually Impaired Adult Rehabilitation and Employment
Survey:Final Results
By Edward C. Bell, Ph.D. and Natalia M. Mino
Edward C. Bell, Ph.D., serves as director of the Professional
Development and Research Institute on Blindness, Louisiana Tech
University.
Abstract
Individuals who are legally blind or visually impaired in the United
States have long suffered high rates of unemployment. The purpose of
this study was to determine the current employment status of these
individuals and to analyze its consistency with federal reports. The
study also examined demographic factors, education, civic involvement,
and rehabilitation experiences of this population in order to
determine whether some of the factors could be identified as
contributing to the employment outcomes. Results showed that the
employment rate for individuals who are legally blind/visually
impaired is 37%, which is consistent with previous research. Findings
show that a gender gap still exists, with a significant difference in
annual earnings between men and women. Education and
rehabilitation-related factors seemed to impact employment outcomes;
where higher educational attainment is associated with better
employment outcomes. In addition, those individuals who were trained
under the Structured Discovery approach were more likely to be
employed and to have higher earnings than those who did not. Finally,
for individuals who read Braille on a weekly basis and used a white
cane, the likelihood of being employed and receiving higher earnings
was higher than those who did not use these tools.
Keywords
Rehabilitation Research, Employment Outcomes, Education, training
centers, Braille, Cane Travel; Structured Discovery
Adult Rehabilitation and Employment Survey
This study sought to describe the current employment status of
individuals who are blind and visually impaired (VI) in the U.S. and
to examine its consistency with federal reports. In addition, it
explored those factors that might have an impact on employment status
for this section of the population. In order to do so, a summary of
the most current federal data is included, followed by a review of the
literature that analyze the employment situation of people with
disabilities in the U.S. and, more specifically, those factors related
to an increase in employment outcomes by blind and VI individuals.
Employment Status of Blind and VI Individuals: Federal Reports
The 2010 U.S. Census reports that the total population in the United
States is 308,746,538. According to the provisional report for the
2010 National Health Interview Survey, 21.5 million American adults
age 18 and older reported experiencing vision loss (defined as
individuals who reported that they have trouble seeing, even when
wearing glasses or contact lenses, as well as those who reported that
they are blind or unable to see at all). By December 2011, the Bureau
of Labor Statistics (BLS) reported that approximately 2 million
individuals from 16 to 64 years old were identified as having vision
loss according to the Current Population Survey (CPS) for all working
age adults (16 to 64 years of age). Of them, 63.6% were not in the
civilian labor force (i.e., those who were identified as "not in the
labor force" were not actively looking for work during the reported
month, and thus not included in the unemployment rate, even though
they were not employed as well). Of the 36.4% who were in the labor
force, 13.8% were unemployed. However, the employment to population
ratio showed that of the 2 million working age adults with vision
loss, only 31.3% were employed (American Foundation for the Blind,
2012). These data are similar to that of Bell (2010) who reported that
by 2007, only 37% of adults who were legally blind exiting the
vocational rehabilitation (VR) system were achieving competitive
employment.
The present study analyzed how the above reports are reflected in the
current employment situation of blind and VI individuals. And, more
importantly, whether specific rehabilitation, education, and/or civic
factors could be identified that might be indicative of increased
employment.
Disability, Employment, and the Vocational Rehabilitation System
In the pursuit of employment, each person, especially those with
significant disabilities, has to navigate a whole host of social
services, institutions, and processes that are aimed at assisting them
in achieving their vocational goals. These include the state-federal
VR process (Schriner, 2001; Schroeder, 2000); public financial
support, such as Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and
Supplemental Security Income (SSI) (Vaughn & Omvig, 2005); and an
entire array of education and employment preparation institutions
(Amato, 2009; Hershenson, 1998; Jeanmarie & Strauser, 2000). For those
who have successfully achieved employment, these social systems
worked, in some form or fashion, to facilitate success. While for many
others, these same systems have served as a land minefield, with
continual road blocks, delays, and dead ends.
The most commonly reported research in the area of employment outcomes
comes from secondary analysis of existing databases, such as the RSA
VR closure system, to identify variables that correlate with
employment outcomes. For example, Randolph (2004) found that
disability status was the variable that presented the strongest
negative correlation with employment. The author determined that
disability status was a strong negative predictor of employment,
particularly of being competitively employed. He found that females
with a disability, who were less educated and who had young children,
were less likely to be employed.
A study by Ozawa and Yeo (2006) compared the employment outcomes of
individuals with mild and severe disabilities with those having no
disability (it is important to notice that of the factors that the
authors used to classify individuals into mild or severe disability
groups, the use of a wheelchair, white cane, or similar aid for more
than 6 months was one of the most relevant). The results showed that
the rate of employment was inversely related to the degree of
disability. From the group of respondents with no disability 83.04%
were employed, while those in the mild disabilities group and the
severe disabilities group were employed at 69.94% and 51.54%
respectively. These authors found, as did Randolph (2004), that
disability affects two main aspects of work performance: the
likelihood of working and monthly earnings. The probabilities of
working were significantly less for respondents with severe
disabilities than for those with mild or with no disability. Monthly
earnings of both respondents with mild disabilities and with severe
disabilities were lower than those of people with no disability.
According to Baldwin and Schumacher (2002), not only the chances of
obtaining a job and earnings are negatively correlated to disability
status, but also job mobility. Workers with disabilities were more
likely to experience involuntary job changes than nondisabled workers.
Martz and Xu (2008) analyzed the demographic and service-related
predictors of employment among individuals with disabilities who
received VR services and who exited from a state-federal system in a
U.S. southern state. Having a sample composed of clients who received
VR services from the Tennessee Division of the Rehabilitation Services
(TDRS) during the years of 1998-2004, this study showed that those
individuals with learning disabilities had the highest employment rate
(93.3%) and the ones that presented the lowest employment rate were
individuals with visual disabilities (78.7%). For this later group,
gender and age were significant predictors of employment outcome, with
women being less likely to be employed.
The next section summarizes findings on predictors of employment
specifically for the blind and VI population.
Blindness, Employment, and the Vocational Rehabilitation System
Warren-Peace (2009) analyzed outcomes and predictors of employment and
the differences between clients who were legally blind and clients
with other disabilities. With this framework, the RSA-911 data for
Fiscal Year 2007 was used. Results showed that approximately 34% of
consumers with legal blindness were closed competitively, while 29.5%
of individuals in this same group were closed in non-competitive
employment (i.e., homemaker and unpaid family worker). This is in
sharp contrast to other disability groups, where non-competitive
employment was only 1.5%. Of the total of noncompetitive closures,
clients who were legally blind represented 43.6%. This suggested that
out of the 19 disability types included in this study, just the
legally blind group accounted for a significant amount of the total of
noncompetitive closures in FY 2007.
According to the literature, there are several factors that predict
employment for the blind and VI. Among them, educational level, age,
training in blindness skills, and visual status remain consistent
across the research studies. Leonard, D'Allura, and Horowitz (1999)
found that both achieving a higher educational level and attending an
integrated school setting for most of one?s schooling was associated
with being employed. In addition, the use of printed material as a
primary reading medium, employment related skills (computer, typing,
and use of public transportation), psychosocial variables (overall
satisfaction with social contact and receipt of encouragement from
family and friends), vision rehabilitation service, and technology
training were associated with being employed. In relation to those
factors that predicted employment in higher level positions, they
identified higher level of education, technology training, orientation
and mobility (O&M) training, and fewer hours of rehabilitation
teaching.
In addition to the receipt of education services that resulted in a
certificate or degree, Capella-McDonnall (2005) concluded that having
worked since the onset of the disability, the reason for applying to
rehabilitation for services, and a high-quality relationship between
the client and rehabilitation counselor were the greatest predictors
of an employment outcome. In contrast, McDonnall and Crudden (2009)
concluded that an involvement with the VR counselor was not associated
with employment. In this later study, the results showed that work
experience, academic competence, self-determination, use of assistive
technology, and locus of control were all significant predictors of
employment in transition-age youth with blindness. Cavenaugh, Giesen,
and Steinman (2006) also found that the education level reached and
the age at the time of application, followed by the presence of a
secondary disability, and race/ethnicity were strong predictors of
employment.
Regarding visual status, Leonard et al (1999) found that this factor
had an important impact on employment outcomes, since those
individuals who were blind were more likely to be employed in higher
level positions than those who were partially sighted. A study by
Darensbourg (2013) also revealed that the severity of vision loss was
a statistically significant predictor of competitive employment
outcomes, however, in this study those consumers with lesser vision
loss where more likely to be competitively employed. On the other
hand, the study of Cavenaugh et al (2006) showed that the severity of
the disability was the strongest predictor of acceptance for VR
services.
The results of the study conducted by Warren-Peace (2009) revealed
that the likelihood of obtaining competitive employment after
receiving services from VR was greater for those consumers who were
legally blind without a secondary disability; were male; African
American, Hispanic, or Multiple race/ethnicity; had a personal income
as a primary source of support at application; and attained a special
education certificate or college degree. As well as visual status,
Darensbourg (2013) found that the variables that were the most
statistically significant predictors of competitive employment
outcomes for individuals with blindness or visually impairment were
weekly earnings at application, source of referral (self-referral),
gender (male), and not receiving Medicaid.
Besides predicting competitive employment, some of the factors
mentioned so far also predicted higher earnings. For consumers with
visual impairments who were competitively employed through the
state-federal VR system during Fiscal Year 1997, Capella (2001)
concluded that age, educational level, and case expenditures were some
of the factors accounting for differences in earnings. Of these three,
age was the most significant predictor; clients with visual
impairments that were older tended to receive lower earnings.
Education also had impact on earnings, since the higher the level of
education, the higher the earnings. Finally, some of the variance in
earnings was explained by case expenditures, whereby the greater
amount of money that was spent on a case, the higher the earnings at
closure was for consumers.
An additional factor that seemed to have a significant impact on
employment outcomes and earnings for individuals who were blind and VI
was the type of agency (separated or combined/general) that served
these clients. Cavenaugh, Giesen, and Pierce (2000) concluded that the
mean earnings at closure of legally blind consumers were significantly
higher in separate agencies than in combined agencies. In addition,
Warren-Peace (2009) found that the type of agency seemed to be a
relevant predictor of competitive employment outcomes. Those consumers
who received services from a separate agency for the blind had more
chances to be closed in an integrated work setting. Capella (2001),
however, found that the type of agency that served these clients was
not a significant factor impacting on earnings.
>From a different perspective, Golub (2006) studied the factors that
contributed to successful work experiences for employees from the
perspective of their employers. This study revealed that, according to
the employers, important factors included employee being comfortable
with his/her disability, being an ambassador for blindness by
eliminating awkwardness in relationships, and insisting on being held
to the same standard as his/her coworkers. In addition, this study
found that the key to success for employees was skills of blindness.
He/she should possess updated O&M, Braille and assistive technology
skills, and a variety of strategies to cope in case a system fails.
Furthermore, during interviews candidates should demonstrate their
competence and have specific ideas for how to manage the details of
the work and transportation challenges.
The literature also accounts for studies that have analyzed those
factors that are considered barriers for employment. Crudden and
McBroom (1999) for example, found that attitudes of employers and the
general public, transportation problems, and a lack of access to
print, adaptive equipment, and accommodations were the most relevant.
Visual status also seemed to play a role when analyzing barriers to
employment since individuals who were partially sighted had more
issues with transportation than those who were totally blind. Those
who were blind as opposed to VI, however, had more problems with the
skills or attitudes of rehabilitation counselors or placement staff.
When asked about the most important thing the rehabilitation counselor
did to help the participants to find employment, they mentioned help
in locating jobs, arranging interviews, and providing job references;
provision of education and training or equipment; and provision of
counseling and emotional support. However, of the total sample, only
39% of the participants believed that VR services helped them to
obtain their jobs. The rest of them believed that rehabilitation
services helped them to improve their performances, that the services
made them more competitive with those nondisabled workers, and that
the services helped them to maintain their jobs.
Finally, Bell (2010) offers one of the most current analyses on the
competitive employment rates for VR consumers who were legally blind.
Results from fiscal year 1997 to 2007 (obtained by using the RSA-911
data system) showed an average employ?ment rate of 31.79%, which was
significantly higher than the 25.1% reported by Cavenaugh (1999) based
on data from FY 1995. In fact, the Competitive Consumer Rates have
shown a steady climb from 27% in 1997 up to a high of 37% in 2007. In
addition, earnings of consumers had also increased. Some of the
factors that seemed to impact employment outcomes were gender, race,
education, and veteran status. Results demonstrated that men earned
$0.63 more an hour than women in 1997, and this increased by 2007 to a
$0.86 difference on average. In addition, while the average spread
between earnings was about $6.00 in 1997, the variability in earnings
had increased to nearly $12 for men but only $8 for women. On the
other hand, Native Americans had less employment in 1997 than the
other racial groups, and this group remained substantially behind by
2007. Asian/Pacific Islanders earned the highest average wages and
Black/African Americans earned the lowest average hourly rates. Those
with a master?s degree or higher had almost a 40% greater chance of
being employed and had $4.00 an hour more in earnings than did
individuals with less than a high school degree. In addition, American
veterans were underrepresented in the RSA-911 data system, and where
they were identified the rates of employment were 19%.
White cane for mobility. When analyzing the impact of using a cane and
having received O&M training on employment outcomes, this factor
appears to be important when obtaining a job in higher level positions
(Leonard et al 1999). In addition, from the perspective of employers,
having O&M skills was a factor that contributed to successful work
experiences for employees (Golub, 2006). In his literature review,
Miller (2002) addresses the important role that both O&M instructors
and rehabilitation teachers have as employment resources. They not
only provide the training that leads to employment but since they
spend more time with the consumers than the counselor in a
community-based setting, they have the chance to explore a consumer?s
vocational interests and complement the rehabilitation counselor?s
job.
As it is well known in the field of O&M, there are two main
philosophical approaches that outline two different training methods:
the conventional approach and the alternative approach or Structured
Discovery Cane Travel (SDCT) (Omvig, 2005). SDCT instructional service
offers to individuals who are blind or VI the opportunity to learn
independence and build self-confidence in a meaningful and permanent
approach. SDCT is rooted on non-visual techniques, problem- solving
skills, and confidence-building learning experiences (National
Blindness Professional Certification Board, 2012). It is based on
experiential learning and it remains neutral regarding the
instructor?s perceptual experience, transferring the focus on the
instructor?s vision to the cognitive processes that are involved in an
orientation and mobility lesson. The success of cane travel depends
upon the way in which the student is able to cognitively process the
information (Mettler, 2008). SDCT also applies principles of the
Socratic questioning, (i.e., the asking of strategic questions to
guide the learner in solving the problem autonomously), and strongly
relies on the role modeling of non-visual techniques, which encourages
the discrediting of public misconceptions about blindness (National
Blindness Professional Certification Board, 2012).
The literature is not extensive about the effectiveness of the
different types of O&M training that those individuals who are blind
or VI receive and their impact on employment outcomes. However, in his
study, Aditya (2004) made an attempt to evaluate the effectiveness of
the SDCT approach. The author hypothesized that because of the
philosophical and methodological differences between the conventional
and alternative approaches related to functional independence,
individuals trained in the alternative approach will score higher on a
measure of functional independence than those trained in the
conventional approach. In this survey the data about the method of
training was not directly obtained, however, it was replaced by
examining the variable of cane size, given that the ?NFB? canes are
employed almost exclusively in the alternative approach, while the
shorter, folding, aluminum or graphite canes are predominately
utilized in conventional programs. Therefore, the item of cane size
was recoded into a dichotomous variable to reflect the two training
approaches. The descriptive statistics revealed that the differences
were in the expected direction. The within-group variances between
those who were trained in the alternative approach and those who were
trained in the conventional approach were noticeably different. Aditya
(2004) reported that individuals who were trained with a long, white
cane had significantly higher ability and activity in matters of
independent living.
Braille. One of the most cited studies in the field conducted by Ryles
(1996) revealed that reading Braille was one main skill that
predicted, for congenitally legally blind adults, higher employment
rates and higher education levels than reading print as original
medium. The main results showed that those individuals that utilized
Braille as their primary reading medium had a significantly lower
unemployment rate (44%) that those who utilize print as the original
reading medium. The author affirmed that even though reading Braille
as a primary medium did not increase an individual?s opportunities for
employment, those who learned Braille when they were children and used
Braille extensively as their primary reading medium, were employed at
a higher rate. However, those who learned Braille after using print
did not have a higher employment rate than those who never read
Braille. According to Golub (2006), employers believed that possessing
updated Braille skills represented an important factor that
contributed to successful work experiences for their employees.
Papadopoulos and Koutsoklenis (2009) conducted a study with higher
education Greek students and graduates who were VI in order to explore
the use of different reading media. They found out that the most
significant predictors of the frequency of use of Braille were visual
status, age at the loss of sight, and training in Braille.
Specifically, the frequency of use of Braille declined with the
increase in the age at which sight was lost, but increased with
training in Braille. The authors concluded that a well-established
tendency to use technology could lead to a further decline in the
frequency of Braille use in Greece. For this reason they stated that
efforts should be made to enhance the use of Braille, and since in
Greece the frequency of Braille use decreases with the increase in age
at time of loss, they recommended the development of intensive Braille
courses for people who become visually impaired at a later age.
Little agreement exists over the type, nature, intensity, structure,
and model of training that is most effective (Ryles, 2008). Some
training models report that the learning of Braille is a requirement
for all individuals who enter the program (Mayo, Allen, & Deden, 2008)
while others report that only 20% of individuals attending training
elect to learn Braille (Ponchillia & Durant, 1996). It is commonly
reported that 85% of adults who read Braille are employed (Ryles,
1996; Spungin, 1990), yet disagreement still rages over what
constitutes best practice for the teaching of Braille.
Consumer and civic involvement. Existing literature has demonstrated
the key role that family support plays in sustaining effective
outcomes (Bennetts, 2003; Whelley, Radtke, R., Burgstahler, S., &
Christ, T., 2003). The role of advisors, peers, and other peer-to-peer
interactions has also been cited as important in the rehabilitation
process (Hall & McGregor, 2000; Whelley, et al., 2003). Both formal as
well as informal models of mentoring have been demonstrated as
effective mediators in education, employment, and career decision
making (Bell, 2012; Hall & McGregor, 2000; Marks & Feeley, 1995).
Community and civic participation, such as religious affiliation,
social clubs, and civic organizations, further help to support
interest and engagement in employment (Nagle, 2001; Vaughn & Omvig,
2005). Finally, specifically for members of the target population,
self-reports and anecdotal evidence suggest that membership in a
consumer organization is an essential element in the rehabilitation
process (Beck-Winchatz & Riccobono, 2008; Omvig, 2005; Phelps, 2005).
However, the stories of many individuals who are blind tell of
families who were over protective (Omvig, 2002), of communities that
put up restrictions (Ferguson, 2001), and of support groups that
promoted unemployment and dependence (Vaughn & Omvig, 2005). What
research needs to accomplish is to tease out how these factors serve
as facilitators rather than deterrents so that training and education
can impact greater growth and evolution.
Crudden and McBroom (1999) conducted a study that demonstrated that
among the reasons participants thought they were successful in
overcoming barriers to employment was the importance of developing
networking and mentoring opportunities. Role models appeared to be a
relevant variable in maintaining motivation. They serve as examples to
others and provide helpful insight on how to address some of the
employment barriers. According to participants in this study,
rehabilitation providers usually do not encourage mentoring
opportunities or contact with role models who are visually impaired.
The authors stated that referrals to consumer organizations could
assist those who seek employment in generating support systems.
Even though there is a lack of empirical studies about the impact of a
consumer affiliation on employment outcomes, there are sufficient
testimonies of blind individuals who express the opinion that their
involvement in a consumer organization changed their lives completely.
Omvig (2002) stated the NFB has been a key in his life and the lives
of many blind individuals. He emphasizes the importance that competent
and successful blind people who are part of this organization have as
positive role models. These role models are the living proof that with
proper training and opportunity, blind people can live normal,
successful, and meaningful lives. And this is what they pass along to
the new generations.
Purpose of the study. The purpose of the current study was to capture
a snapshot of the employment status of individuals who are legally
blind and/or VI across the United States. Furthermore, this study
sought to examine demographic factors, education, civic involvement,
and rehabilitation experiences of this population in order to
determine whether any state factors (i.e., those which are changeable
through education or training) could be identified as contributing to
the employment outcomes of these individuals.
Research Questions. The following research questions served as the
guiding principles for this study.
Q1: What is the employment rate for adults who are blind/VI in a
national sample, and how does this rate compare to existing research
findings on the subject?
Q2: Are specific demographic factors (i.e., age, gender, racial
identity, visual status) associated with greater or lesser rates of
employment and wages for this population?
Q3: Can social and civic factors (i.e., civic involvement, affiliation
with consumer organizations) be identified that are associated with
higher rates of employment and wages for this population?
Q4: Can education and rehabilitation-related factors (i.e., college,
adjustment training, etc.) be identified that are associated with
increased rates of employment and wages for this population?
Method
Participants
The participants for this survey were drawn from legally blind and VI
adults of working age (i.e., 18-70 years old) from across the United
States. Complete data were obtained from 1,056 individuals who were an
average age of 46.47 years (SD=13.81, Range=18-87). These individuals
were representative of 595 females (56.34%) and 461 males (43.66%),
who were 90 African Americans (8.52%), 35 Asian Americans (3.31%), 56
Hispanics/Latinos (including Puerto Ricans) (5.30%), eight Native
Americans/Alaska Natives (0.76%), four Native Hawaiians/Pacific
Islanders (0.38%), 836 Whites or Caucasians (79.17%), and 27 who
reported being of other or mixed races (2.56%).
Instruments
The instruments that were used for this study included the Adult
Rehabilitation and Employment Survey (ARES), which consisted of 79
variables, covering (a) general demographics including living
situation; (b) VR and adjustment training experiences; (c) civic and
consumer organization affiliation; (d) educational attainment; (e)
employment characteristics; and (f) a request to participate in future
research.
Procedures
All participants first read (or were read to) an informed consent
document that outlined the purpose of the study, characteristics of
requested participants (i.e., blind/VI adults of working age), and a
notice that their participation was completely voluntary. This study
was reviewed and approved by the host university?s Institutional
Review Board (IRB). Interested persons were provided two options for
participation: (1) they could complete the survey online by visiting
the provided URL; or (2) they were invited to contact the office of
the principal investigator and have the survey read to them by a
research assistant over the phone. The survey took approximately ten
minutes to complete. Data were collected between March 15 and August
31, 2011.
Recruitment. The purpose of this survey was to obtain a snapshot of
the cross section of rehabilitation, education, and employment
situation of adults with legal blindness/visual impairment in the
United States. As such, a host of methods were employed to reach
individuals from a cross section of society and socioeconomic status.
The invitation to participate in the survey was distributed on all
available listservs of the two largest consumer organizations of the
blind (i.e., the American Council of the Blind (ACB) and the National
Federation of the Blind (NFB)). The invitation was sent electronically
to every state-operated library for the blind in each regional office
with a request to have it distributed to library patrons. The
invitation was sent electronically to all fifty VR agencies who serve
the blind/VI population, to the National Council of State Agencies for
the Blind, and related rehabilitation membership organizations. The
request for participation was sent to more than 80 rehabilitation and
adjustment training facilities electronically, and more than 2,000
requests were also sent in print/Braille to those training centers
that were willing to distribute the announcement. In addition, 3,000
print/Braille flyers were distributed to the participants of the 2011
annual convention of the NFB; 1,200 were distributed to the
participants of the 2011 annual convention of the ACB; and 200 were
distributed to the participants of the Blinded Veterans of America
Conference. Requests were sent on more than ten periodic newsletters
and periodical publications, were posted on Facebook and other social
media outlets, and were passed on by word of mouth.
Results
Demographics
Beyond age, gender, and racial group identity, the following data were
captured to provide an understanding of the make up of the sample
population that comprised this study. The respondents were
representative of all 50 states, with the fewest respondents being
from North Dakota (n = 2) and the largest representation coming from
Texas (n = 75). They self-reported being 702 individuals who are blind
(66.48%) and 354 reported being visually impaired (33.52%) (See Table
1).
Table 1 ? Demographics
Age
n
Mean
SD
1056
46.47
13.81
Range
18-87
Gender
Frequency
Percent
Female
595
56.34
Male
461
43.66
Total
1056
100
Race/Ethnicity
Frequency
Percent
African American, Black
90
8.52
Asian American, Asian
35
3.31
Hispanic, Latino (including Puerto Rican)
56
5.3
Native American, Alaska Native
8
0.76
Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander
4
0.38
Other
27
2.56
White or Caucasian
836
79.17
Total
1056
100
Vision Status
Frequency
Percent
Blind
702
66.48
Visually Impaired
354
33.52
Total
1056
100
Data were collected on additional demographics, such as marital
status, living situation, and the community of residence. The majority
of participants (51%) reported that they live in their own home that
they are purchasing, with the smallest proportion (2%) who reported
living in a dormitory or similar institution. The largest segment of
this population are currently married (45%), while just under two
percent report being widowed. By far, the majority of this sample
(57%) report that they do not have any children, while the next
largest grouping (17%) report having two children. While others report
having one, three, four or five children, less than two percent (1.5%)
report having six or more children. When looking at the size of the
community in which individuals reside, the majority (23%) lived in
small communities of less than 25,000 residence, with the second
largest concentration (22%) living in small communities of between
25,000 and 75,000. The third largest grouping of individuals resided
in large cities with populations above one million, and the remainder
fell into mid-size communities (See Table 2).
Table 2 ? Family and Community
Living Situation Frequency
percent
Live alone and/or with others in house/condo that I own or am
purchasing
541
51.23
Live alone and/or with others in apartment or rental property
that I pay for
300
28.41
Live at home with parents or in someone else?s home
130
12.31
Live in dormitory or other institution
25
2.37
Share an apartment or rental property with room mates
60
5.68
Total
1056
100
Marital Status
Frequency
Percent
Divorced
107
10.13
Married
475
44.98
Separated
22
2.08
Single
353
33.43
Widow or widower
18
1.7
With significant other person
81
7.67
Total
1056
99.99
Raising Children
Frequency
Percent
No, I have no children
605
57.29
1 child
133
12.59
2 children
176
16.67
3 children
80
7.58
4 children
35
3.31
5 children
11
1.04
6 or more children
16
1.52
Total
1056
100
Population of Your Community
Frequency
Percent
1-25,000 People
245
23.2
25,001?75,000 People
240
22.73
75,001?150,000 People
121
11.46
150,001?250,000 People
104
9.85
250,001?500,000 People
89
8.43
500,001?1,000,000 People
121
11.46
1,000,001?2,000,001?larger
136
12.88
Total
1056
100.01
Vocational Rehabilitation and Education
The next set of questions was designed to gain information related to
VR, and in particular, the attainment of adjustment to vision loss
training. Individuals were asked whether they had an active case with
their state?s VR agency. Forty-two individuals (3.98%) stated that
they have never had a VR case, while 26 were unsure or did not know
(2.46%). Of the remaining 94%, 577 individuals (54.64%) reported
having once had a VR case, but that it is closed now, while 411
individuals (38.92%) reported they still maintain an open VR case.
When asked whether or not the individual ever received adjustment to
blindness training (i.e., mobility with a white cane, Braille, or
daily living skills), 191 individuals (18.09%) reported that they have
never received any sort of formal skill training based on visual
impairment. Another 501 individuals (47.44%) reported having completed
(or graduated) from either a residential or day-training program.
Another 119 individuals (11.26%) stated that they attended a
residential or day program, but that they did not complete their
training program. Finally, 252 individuals (23.86%) reported that they
attended multiple forms of training, and/or that they received
training in their home or school.
While there are many forms of rehabilitation and adjustment training,
this study focused only on cane and Braille. For those who did receive
some sort of adjustment training, they were asked about their
training/use of a white cane for mobility. There were 777 individuals
who reported having been taught to use a cane. These individuals were
at an average of 23.67 years of age (SD = 15.62, Range = 2?78) when
they were first taught. Of the total sample, 152 stated ?No, the use
of a cane was not taught? (14.39%). The remaining individuals stated,
?I learned a little about cane use? (n = 76, 7.20%); ?I was taught
using a white cane that measured between my sternum and chin? (n =
513, 48.58%); and ?I was taught with a long cane that measured between
my chin and nose? (n = 315, 29.83%). When respondents were asked
whether they currently use a white cane for mobility, 247 stated that
they did not use a cane for mobility (23.39%). Of the remaining 544
individuals, (51.52%) stated that they use a cane all of the time, and
265 individuals (25.09%) reported using a cane some of the time. When
asked about the size and structure of the cane that is preferred for
current use, 334 individuals (39.57%) said, ?A folding cane, that is
lower than my chin in height;? 171 individuals (20.26%) said, ?A
folding or telescoping cane that is above my chin in height;? 249
individuals (29.50%) said, ?A rigid cane that is above my chin in
height;? 40 individuals (4.74%) said, ?A rigid cane, that is lower
than my chin in height;? and 50 individuals (5.92%) stated that they
used another type of cane/mobility device.
Similarly, participants were asked about their training/use of
Braille. There were 674 individuals who reported being taught Braille
at an average of 18.32 years of age (SD = 15.54, Range = 3?78). Of the
entire sample, 765 stated that they were taught Braille (72.44%),
while 291 reported that they had not been taught Braille (27.56%).
When these participants were asked whether or not they currently read
Braille on a daily or weekly basis, 613 stated that they currently
read Braille (58.05%), and 443 stated that they do not currently read
Braille (41.95%).
With respect to participant education, respondents were asked about
their educational standing before they received any rehabilitation
training, and then again after the receipt of any vocational training.
Table 3 provides a side by side comparison of the number and
percentage of individuals by educational level before and after
rehabilitation training. As can be seen from the table, a majority of
individuals significantly increased their educational attainment, from
pre to post training. When respondents were asked whether they
attributed their rehabilitation training to their advances in
education, 141 individuals (13.45%) stated that they did not attend
rehabilitation and adjustment training. Of the remaining, 201
individuals (19.03%) stated that their rehabilitation did not help
them to increase their educational attainment, while another 282
individuals (26.70%) were not sure. This meant that 432 individuals
(40.1%) of respondents felt that their rehabilitation training was
either somewhat helpful, or was instrumental in their ability to
increase in their educational attainment.
Table 3 -- Education
Education
Before VR Frequency
Percent
Education
After VR
Frequency
Percent
Less than High School
194
18.37
Less than High School
13
1.23
High School diploma/GED
349
33.05
High School diploma/GED
49
4.64
Some college, but no degree
148
14.02
Some college, but no degree
141
13.35
Associates Degree/AA
50
4.73
Associates Degree/AA
76
7.2
Vocational or Trade school
15
1.42
Vocational or Trade school
53
5.02
Bachelor?s/undergraduate degree
147
13.92
Bachelor?s/undergraduate degree
246
23.3
Master?s/Graduate Degree
72
6.82
Master?s/Graduate Degree
238
22.54
Law Degree
12
1.14
Law Degree
21
1.99
Doctorate degree/post graduate training
17
1.61
Doctorate degree/post graduate training
46
4.36
Not sure or
Not applicable
52
4.92
Not sure or
Not applicable
173
16.38
Pre Training
1056
100
Post Training
1056
100.01
Consumer and Civic Involvement
Individuals were asked whether they participated in any consumer
organizations of the blind. There were 226 individuals (21.40%) who
affiliated with the (ACB); 49 individuals (4.64%) who affiliated with
both the ACB and NFB; 457 individuals (43.28%) who associated with the
NFB; and 324 individuals (30.68%) who are not members of any consumer
organization. In attempting to determine the level or extent of
consumer organizational affiliation, 330 individuals (31.25%)
reiterated that they do not participate in consumer organizations; 397
individuals (37.59%) stated that they are members, but hold no
leadership positions; 253 individuals (23.96%) reported holding local
or state leadership positions; 12 individuals (1.14%) claimed national
leadership positions; and 64 individuals (6.06%) stated that they hold
several positions at the local, state, and/or national level.
Information was also sought with respect to the frequency with which
participants participated in other community and/or civic activities
in their local communities. All individuals participated in at least
one extracurricular event, and a large number participated in a number
of different activities. Of the sample, 541 individuals (51.23%)
stated that they participate in their local church, synagogue, or
place of worship. As many as 185 individuals (17.51%) reported holding
leadership positions within their church. One-hundred ninety-four
individuals (18.37%) participate in music or theatre; 111 individuals
(10.51%) compete on local sports or athletic teams; 114 individuals
(10.79%) are members of Kiwanis, Rotary, or other business groups; and
200 individuals (18.93%) participate in political and/or other civic
groups.
Employment
One of the major factors under consideration in this study was the
employment situation of the population of adults who are blind/VI, and
specifically, what role, if any, VR plays in changing this situation.
As can be seen from Table 4, 512 individuals (48.48%) were unemployed
prior to receiving VR services, while only 192 individuals (18.18%)
were employed full time. Conversely, after individuals received VR
services, the majority of persons, 393 (37.22%), were employed
full-time, compared to 307 individuals (29.07%) who remained
unemployed, in addition to a 5.3% increase in the number of
individuals who were working part-time. Of the 535 individuals who
were working either full- or part-time at the completion of this
survey, 406 individuals provided data on their annual salaries. For
these individuals, the average annual salary was $40,134.12 (SD =
$27,129.74, Range = $2,401.92--$180,000), with a median annual salary
of $35,000.
Table 4 ? Employment Status
Before VR Frequency
Percentage
After VR
Frequency
Percentage
Full-time employed
192
18.18
Full-Time
393
37.22
Part-time employed
86
8.14
Part-Time
142
13.45
Full-time college or vocational student
119
11.27
Full-Time College
72
6.82
Volunteer part- or full-time
33
3.13
Vol. F-P
45
4.26
Full-time Homemaker
26
2.46
Homemaker
21
1.99
Retired from previous employment
35
3.31
Retired
76
7.2
Unemployed
512
48.48
Unemployed
307
29.07
N/A, I never had a VR case before
53
5.02
Total
1056
99.99
*
1056
100.01
Information was also collected with respect to the availability of
fringe benefits through the place of employment. The participants
reported that 361 individuals (66.85%) had the availability of medical
insurance through their place of work. In addition, 338 individuals
(62.59%) reported having dental insurance available to them, and 332
individuals (61.48%) reported having retirement benefits/planning
available to them through their work.
Factors that Impact on Employment
The preceding data are helpful in drawing a picture of the general
demographic, rehabilitation, educational, and employment
characteristics of the working-age population of individuals who are
blind. With only 37% of the population reporting full-time employment,
it is important to examine the demographic, rehabilitation, and
educational characteristics of this sample to determine the factors
that seem to make an impact on the attainment of employment. The
demographic and descriptive data that have been presented so far are
representative of the entire sample. During the analysis of the VR
data, the first question identified that 475 individuals (45.36%) of
the sample either still have an open VR case, or else they did not
know what their VR status was. Consequently, 577 individuals (54.64%)
of the sample reported that they did receive VR services, but that
their VR case has now been closed. It is this portion of the sample
whose data should be most descriptive of the employment situation of
individuals post-rehabilitation, and therefore, the remaining analysis
will be confined to the 577 individuals who have already received VR
services and who should most likely be available for participation in
the workforce.
Demographic factors. The participant?s age, gender, racial/ethnic
classification, and visual impairment characteristics were examined to
determine to what effect each has on the attainment of employment. The
data demonstrated that there was no correlation between the age of the
consumer and the likelihood of being competitively employed; nor was
there a relationship between age and the annual earnings of
participants.
Participants were asked to classify themselves as being either blind
or VI. This information was sought based on a perception that those
with lesser vision may be less employable and consequently at a
greater risk for unemployment. The data demonstrated no significant
difference based on this classification (F(1, 576) = 1.55, p = .21,
RS.0). Those who described themselves as ?blind? were employed at a
rate of 54%, while those who classified themselves as ?visually
impaired? were employed at a rate of 49%. While a difference does
exist based on annual earnings for these two groups, the results were
non-significant (F(1, 294) = 3.28, p = .07, RS = .01).; with blind
individuals earning $44,000 on average and visually impaired earning
$37,623. With respect to gender, the data demonstrated no significant
differences between men and women on the percentage of those who were
employed (54% and 51% respectively); however, there was a significant
difference in the annual earnings based on gender (F(1, 294) = 10.45,
p < .01, RS = .03), with men earning an average of $47,424 and females
earning $37,483 annually. Next, the participant?s self-reported
racial/ethnic background was examined, and no significant differences
were found in either the percentage of employment or annual earnings.
Does participation in a national consumer organization of the blind/VI
help such individuals with their employment prospects? Data
demonstrated that a significant difference did exist (F(2, 576) =
5.99, p < .01, RS = .02), with those individuals who participate in
the ACB being employed at a rate of 42%, those who participate in the
NFB being employed at a rate of 59%, and those who reported no
participation in a consumer organization for the blind being employed
at a rate of 49%. Similarly, a significant difference exists based on
annual income (F(2, 294) = 3.80, p = .02, RS = .02), with ACB members
earning an average annual wage of $37,100; NFB members earning
$46,200; and those who do not affiliate with either organization
earning $38,200.
Training factors. Beyond those characteristics of participants that
are trait factors (i.e., demographics), it was next important to
evaluate the impact of the state factors that were examined (i.e.,
education and rehabilitation training). Previous studies (Bell, 2010)
demonstrated that the attainment of college education is a leading
factor in increasing employment and so it was examined for its impact
in this study. Although myriad forms of rehabilitation training exist,
this study focused primarily on the provision of adjustment skills
training through comprehensive residential and day training programs.
Specific data were also obtained with respect to the use of the white
cane and Braille, as these are the most readily identifiable tools
used by individuals who are blind or VI.
The data demonstrate that a significant difference exists between the
employment status of participants based on the level of education that
had been attained (F(4, 576 = 13.09, p < .01, RS = .08). Further
analysis showed that those who had a high school diploma or less, or
who attended only some college were employed at a rate of 36%; those
who had earned a baccalaureate degree were employed at a rate of 59%;
those having earned a master?s degree were employed at a rate of 65%;
and those with a law or doctoral degree were employed at a rate of
80%. Similarly, significant differences exist with respect to the
annual earnings of these individuals (F(4, 296) = 12.23, p < .01, RS =
.14). These differences were represented by those holding a high
school diploma or less earning an average annual salary of $31,500;
those holding a baccalaureate degree earning $42,300; those holding a
master?s degree earning $48,200; and those with a law or doctoral
degree earning $66,900 annually.
When participants were asked whether they had completed training at
any sort of day-time or residential program, the sample was split
almost in half between those who had, and who had not completed
training. The data demonstrated that the mere fact of receiving
training versus not receiving training had no impact on employment
outcomes (F(1, 576) = 0.24, p =.62, RS = 0). Upon further analysis, a
more interesting trend was discovered. The data demonstrated a
significant difference based on the method or type of training that
was received (F(2, 576) = 3.78, p = .02, RS = .01). The data
demonstrated that those individuals who completed training at a
Structured Discovery-based training center were employed at a rate of
60%; those who completed training at a traditional or conventional
training facility were employed at a rate of 47%; and those who either
received training at home, or who received no formal skills training
were employed at a rate of 56%. When the annualized salary of these
individuals was examined, the data again showed significant
differences (F(2, 294) = 3.98, p = .01, RS = .02). The same trend
continued, with those who received their rehabilitation at a
Structured Discovery-based program earning an average of $49,302;
those who received their training at conventional centers earned an
average of $38,170; and those who were trained at home or had no
formal training earned an average of $42,753.
Another factor that was examined in this study was recidivism (i.e.,
the returning for training multiple times). As has been noted in the
literature, there is concern that the need for constant retraining?for
example, when more vision diminishes--has a negative impact on
employment. It is for this reason that Structured Discovery-based
training centers endeavor to provide comprehensive training during one
concentrated period of time. The data do in fact support the notion
that those who return for training multiple times have significantly
less employment than those who only obtain training a single time
(F(3, 384) = 2.80, p = .04, RS = .02), with those who obtained
training one time being employed at a rate of 57% and those receiving
training 4 or more times being employed at a rate of 35%. The same
trend exists with respect to salary (F(3, 193) = 2.81, p = .04, RS =
.04), with those who attended training one time earning $46,766, and
those obtaining training four or more times earning $33,275.
More specifically, this research was interested in several specific
training variables and their impact on employment. The data
demonstrated that 87% of participants have been taught to use a long
white cane for mobility; however, only 54% of respondents report
currently using a white cane for daily mobility. When these data were
evaluated for their impact on employment, the data demonstrated that
individuals who currently use a white cane for mobility are employed
at a significantly higher rate than those who do not (F(1, 576) =
3.73, p = .05, RS = .006), with cane users being employed at a rate of
57% and those who do not use a cane being employed at a rate of 49%.
The data were similarly significant with respect to the annual income
of cane users (F(1, 294) = 4.77, p = .02, RS = .01), with cane users
earning an average of $45,329, and non-cane users earning an average
of $38,478. Stemming from the findings of Aditya (2004), the data were
next analyzed to see if the type of cane used was related to
employment outcomes. The data demonstrated a significant difference
(F(2, 465) = 9.52, p < .01, RS = .03), with those who use a rigid cane
that comes above the chin in height being employed at a rate of 66%,
those who use a folding or rigid cane that is below the chin in height
being employed at a rate of 47%, and those who either use an ?other?
device or no cane at all being employed at a rate of 34%. Similarly,
the data demonstrated a significant difference in the annual earnings
(F(2, 241) = 6.92, p < .01, RS = .05), with longer white cane users
earning approximately $50,000, short/folding cane users earning
$37,000, and other/no cane earning $49,000.
The same data were next analyzed to determine whether the use of
Braille had an impact on the employment status of this population.
Similar to cane use, 75% of the participants were taught Braille at
some time during their education or rehabilitation, but only 63%
reported still using Braille on a daily basis. Are Braille readers
employed at a higher rate than VI individuals who do not read Braille?
The data demonstrate that the answer to this question is yes (F(1,
576) = 11.32, p < .01, RS = .02), with Braille readers being employed
at a rate of 58% and those who do not read Braille being employed at a
rate of 44%. With respect to annualized salary, the data are even more
significant (F(1, 294) = 11.40, p < .01, RS = .03), with Braille
readers earning an average of $45,947, and non-Braille readers earning
an average of $34,826. With more than an $11,000 difference in
annualized salary, there appears to be a substantial impact that
Braille has on employment and salary.
Taken individually, each of these factors demonstrates a significant
impact (or association) with greater or lesser rates of employment. By
combining the most salient factors together, the results show even
more substantial differences in employment outcomes. Individuals who
complete training at a Structured Discovery type of training center,
continue to read Braille on a daily or weekly basis, use a white cane
for mobility, and affiliate with the NFB are employed at a rate of
75%, earning an annualized salary of $53,600. Conversely, those
individuals who received training at a conventional program or had no
formal training, who affiliated with the ACB or no consumer
organization, and who do not use a white cane or Braille are employed
at a rate of 44%, earning $36,000 annually.
Discussion
The rates of employment for individuals who are legally blind/VI in
the United States have been low for decades. The purpose of this study
was to describe the current employment status of these individuals and
to analyze its consistency with federal reports and previous research.
In addition, the study sought to examine demographic factors,
education, civic involvement, and rehabilitation experiences of this
population in order to determine whether some of them could be
identified as contributing to the employment outcomes.
The contributions of this study are quite revealing and reliable since
this work represents the largest field-based study in the field of
rehabilitation for blind and VI individuals, with a national sample of
1,056 participants. Although this study highlighted a great deal of
demographic, education, and rehabilitation factors that impact on
employment, the following were found to be the most salient:
a.. The data show that 37% of working-age adults who are blind/VI
are employed full-time earning a median salary of $35,000?a strikingly
similar finding to the federal rehabilitation and labor findings for
this population. This finding is also similar to those of existing
research (Bell, 2010; Warren-Peace, 2009), putting in evidence that
there has not been a change in the employment rate in the last years.
b.. Of these 37% employed individuals , approximately 67% have
access to medical insurance through their work, 63% have access to
dental insurance, and 61% have the availability of retirement
planning.
c.. Although men and women who are blind/VI are employed at roughly
equivalent rates, a gender gap still exists with men earning on
average $10,000 more annually than women. These findings are
consistent with those of previous research (Bell, 2010; Darensbourg,
2013; Randolph, 2004; Warren-Peace, 2009).
d.. No significant difference was identified within the rates of
employment or earnings based on other demographic characteristics,
such as age, race/ethnicity, or visual impairment classification.
e.. Those individuals who affiliate with the NFB in this study were
employed at a rate of 59%, earning $46,200; whereas, those who
affiliate with the ACB were employed at a rate of 42%, earning
$37,000. Those who chose not to affiliate with either organization
tended to fare better than ACB members, but less well than NFB
members.
f.. As has been demonstrated in previous research, educational
attainment was a significant factor in the employment of this
population, with those having graduate-level education being employed
at more than twice the rate of those with only a high school diploma,
and a more than $35,000 difference in annualized earnings.
g.. Obtaining comprehensive adjustment training was also positively
related to employment outcomes, with those being trained at Structured
Discovery-based programs being employed at a rate of 60%, earning
$49,300 in comparison to those trained at conventionally-based
programs, who were employed at a rate of 47%, earning $38,100. These
results confirm those of Aditya (2004).
h.. Recidivism (i.e., the returning for retraining multiple times),
was found to be negatively related to employment, with those who
receive training four or more times being employed at a rate of 35% in
comparison to those who seek training only once being employed at 57%,
and those same individuals earning $13,000 less than those who were
trained a single time.
i.. The findings showed that those who use a white cane for daily
mobility are employed at a significantly higher rate and earn a
significantly greater annualized salary than those who no longer do.
j.. Those who read Braille on a daily or weekly basis are employed
at a significantly higher rate than those who do not, and Braille
readers also earn on average $11,000 more than non-Braille readers.
k.. In combination, the data indicate that individuals who complete
training at a Structured Discovery program, who affiliate with the
NFB, use a cane for daily mobility, and read Braille are employed at a
rate of 75%, earning $53,000 annually.
l.. In contrast, those who were conventionally trained or not
trained, who either affiliate with ACB or no one, and who neither use
a cane or read Braille are employed at only a rate of 44%, earning
only $36,000 annually.
Implications
The employment rate for individuals who are blind or VI remains
extremely low in the United States. The findings of this study may
help consumers and professionals in the field of blindness to pinpoint
and work on those factors that influence the acquisition of
competitive employment and higher earnings in their particular cases.
Education and training seem to be two of the main central factors to
have a significant influence. It is extremely important for consumers
and professionals, especially in the VR field, to acknowledge the
benefits of this type of training. Consumers should become aware of
these data about Structured Discovery training in order to be able to
make an authentic informed choice about their rehabilitation plan. Of
the data obtained through this study, consumers and practitioners
should know that:
a.. Age, gender, racial identity, and degree of visual impairment
need not impede one?s ability to obtain employment.
b.. Education, especially higher education, seems to make a positive
difference in the chances of being employed and the amount of money
that one can earn.
c.. Knowing positive role models who are themselves blind appears to
be important in the pursuit of education, training, and employment.
d.. Using a white cane to assist in daily mobility is probably a good
idea.
e.. Knowing and using Braille for reading on a regular basis makes
good sense.
f.. Obtaining comprehensive training up front seems better than
getting it piecemeal over time in shorter segments.
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doi:10.1682/JRRD.2009.08.0120
Bell, E. C. (2012). Mentoring transition-age youth with blindness. The
Journal of Special Education, 46(3), 170-179.
Capella, M. (2001). Predicting earnings of vocational rehabilitation
clients with visual impairments. Journal of Rehabilitation, 67(4),
43-47.
Capella-McDonnall, M. (2005). Predictors of competitive employment for
blind and visually impaired consumers of vocational rehabilitation
services. Journal of Visual Impairment & Blindness, 99(5), 303-315.
Cavenaugh, B. (1999). Relationship of agency structure and client
characteristics to rehabilitation services and outcomes for consumers
who are blind. Unpublished manuscript, Mississippi State University,
Rehabilitation Research and Training Center on Blindness and Low
Vision, Starkville, MS.
Cavenaugh, B. S., Giesen, J. M., & Pierce, S. J. (2000).
Rehabilitation of visually impaired persons in separate and general
agencies. Journal of Visual Impairment & Blindness, 94(3), 133-145.
Cavenaugh, B., Giesen, J., & Steinman, B. (2006). Contextual effects
of race or ethnicity on acceptance for vocational rehabilitation of
consumers who are legally blind. Journal of Visual Impairment &
Blindness, 100(7), 425-436.
Crudden, A., & McBroom, L. (1999). Barriers to employment: A survey of
employed persons who are visually impaired. Journal of Visual
Impairment and Blindness, 93(6), 341-350.
Darensbourg, B. (2013). Predictors of competitive employment of VR
consumers with blindness or visual impairments. Journal of Vocational
Rehabilitation. 38(1), 29-34. doi: 10.3233/JVR-120618
Ferguson, R. (2001). We know who we are: A history of the blind in
challenging educational and socially constructed policies: A study in
policy archeology. San Francisco, CA: Caddo Gap.
Fireison, C., & Moore, J. (1998). Employment Outcomes and Educational
Backgrounds of Legally Blind Adults Employed in Sheltered Industrial
Settings. Journal of Visual Impairment & Blindness, 92(11), 740-47.
Golub, D. B. (2006). A model of successful work experience for
employees who are visually impaired: The results of a study. Journal
of Visual Impairment & Blindness, 100(12), 715-725.
Hall, L. J., & McGregor, J. A. (2000). A follow-up study of the peer
relationships of children with disabilities in an inclusive school.
The Journal of Special Education, 34(3), 114-126.
Harris, A. (2008). Messages to take away: Final reflections on
residential rehabilitation. Braille Monitor, 51(2). Retrieved from
http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm08/bm0802/bm080216.htm
Hershenson, D. (1998). Systemic, ecological model for rehabilitation
counseling. Rehabilitation Counseling Bulletin, 42(1), 40-50.
Jeanmarie, K. & Strauser, D. R. (2000). Job readiness, self-efficacy
and work personality: A comparison of trainee and instructor
perceptions. Journal of Vocational Rehabilitation, 14(1) 13-21.
Leonard, R., D'Allura, T., & Horowitz, A. (1999). Factors associated
with employment among persons who have a vision impairment: A
follow-up of vocational placement referrals. Journal of Vocational
Rehabilitation, 12(1), 33-43.
Marks, S., & Feeley, D. (1995). Transition in action: Michigan's
experience. Journal of Visual Impairment & Blindness, 89(3), 272-275.
Martz, E., & Xu, Y. (2008). Person-related and service-related factors
predicting employment of individuals with disabilities. Journal of
Vocational Rehabilitation, 28(2), 97-104.
Mayo, S., Allen, P. & Deden, J. (2008). A governing philosophy:
Strategies for implementing a progressive approach in a center-based
environment. Braille Monitor, 51(2). Retrieved from
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Mettler, R. (2008). Cognitive learning theory and cane travel
instructors: A new paradigm (2nd ed.). Lincoln, NE: Nebraska
Commission for the Blind and Visually Impaired.
McDonnall, M., & Crudden, A. (2009). Factors affecting the successful
employment of transition-age youths with visual impairments. Journal
of Visual Impairment & Blindness, 103(6), 329-341.
Miller, J. (2002). The Role of Orientation and Mobility Instructors
and Rehabilitation Teachers in Enhancing Employment Opportunities for
Persons Who Are Visually Impaired. Journal of Visual Impairment &
Blindness, 96(12), 852-55.
Nagle, K. M. (2001). Transition to employment and community life for
youths with visual impairments: Current status and future directions.
Journal of Visual Impairment & Blindness, 95(12), 725-738.
National Blindness Professional Certification Board (2012). Structured
Discovery Cane Travel. Retrieved from
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Omvig, J. (2002). Freedom for the Blind: The secret is empowerment.
Hot Springs, AR: Region VI Rehabilitation Continuing Education
Program, University of Arkansas Press.
Omvig, J. (2005). The characteristics of an NFB orientation center.
Braille Monitor, 48(4). Retrieved from
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Ozawa, M., & Yeo, Y. (2006). Work Status and Work Performance of
People With Disabilities: An Empirical Study. Journal of Disability
Policy Studies, 17(3), 180-190. doi:10.1177/10442073060170030601.
Papadopoulos, K., & Koutsoklenis, A. (2009). Reading media used by
higher-education students and graduates with visual impairments in
Greece. Journal of Visual Impairment & Blindness, 103(11), 772-777.
Phelps, A. (2005). NFB launches National Center for Mentoring
Excellence. Journal of Visual Impairment & Blindness, 99(4), 247-248.
Ponchillia, P., & Durant, P. (1995). Teaching behaviors and attitudes
of Braille instructors in adult rehabilitation centers. Journal of
Visual Impairment & Blindness, 89(5), 432-439.
Randolph, D. S. (2004). Predicting the effect of disability on
employment status and income. Work: A Journal of Prevention,
Assessment & Rehabilitation, 23(3), 257-266.
Ryles, R. (1996). The impact of braille reading skills on employment,
income, education, and reading habits. Journal of Visual Impairment &
Blindness, 90(3), 219-226.
Ryles, R. (2008). Structured-Discovery Learning: What it is and why it
works. Braille Monitor, 51(7). Retrieved from
http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm08/bm0807/bm080708.htm
Schriner, K. (2001). A disability studies perspective on employment
issues and policies for disabled people. In G. Albrecht, K. Seelman, &
M. Burry (Eds.), Handbook of disability studies (pp. 642-662).
Thousand Oaks, CA:Sage.
Schroeder, F. (2000). Changing patterns in the rehabilitation system:
Meeting the needs of the blind and otherwise disabled. Braille
Monitor, 43(8). Retrieved from
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Spungin, S. (1990). Braille literacy: Issues for blind persons,
families, professionals, and producers of Braille. New York, NY:
American Foundation for the Blind.
U.S. Census Bureau (2010). Current Population. Retrieved from
http://www.census.gov/
Vaughan, E. & Omvig, J. (2005). Education and rehabilitation for
empowerment. Greenwich, CT: Information Age.
Warren-Peace, P. (2009). Models that predict competitive employment
outcomes in the United States Federal/State vocational rehabilitation
program for clients who are blind and clients with other disabilities.
Dissertation Abstracts International: Section A. Humanities and Social
Science, 70(4-A), 1181.
Whelley, T., Radtke, R., Burgstahler, S., & Christ, T. (2003).
Mentors, advisors, role models and peer supporters: Career development
relationships and individuals with disabilities. American
Rehabilitation, 27(1), 42-49.
Edward C. Bell, Ph.D., CRC, NOMC
REGISTER TO TAKE THE NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB)
Exam
http://www.nbpcb.org/pages/announcements.php
Director, Professional Development and Research
Institute on Blindness
Louisiana Tech University
210 Woodard Hall
PO Box 3158
Ruston LA 71272
Office: 318.257.4554
Fax: 318.257.2259 (Fax)
Skype: edwardbell2010
ebell at latech.edu
www.latech.edu/instituteonblindness
********************
"I am somehow less interested in the weight and convolutions of
Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal
talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops."
-- Stephen Jay Gould
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------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:18:01 -0700
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Self-Advocacy Question
Message-ID:
<CALAYQJBCnR6rXPc_JtcQTDCEVg-h=y_htbBHFbziLHrxnfz6gg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi JJ,
I don't think you need a para, especially if you already have a lot of
experience cooking. Are your parents willing to stand up for you?
Ultimately it's their decision, so if your parents say that you should
participate equally in the class without somebody standing by your
side, then that is what should happen. You could also try contacting
Scott LaBarre, Brent Batron or someone else in CO who could advocate
for you. I live in Colorado and would be happy to talk with your TVI
as a blind person who cooks independently. If your parents are
supporting you and on your side, they can write a letter to the TVI
and teacher requesting you participate fully in the class without a
para, and can perhaps set up a special meeting to discuss this
arrangement. Even if your teachers require a para to be there, you can
still request the para stand back and let you participate fully in the
class. You will get much more out of the class that way. When does the
class start?
Arielle
On 11/11/13, johnnie Jean duran <johnniejduran at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear National Association of Blind Students,
> As some of you may know, I am currently an 8th grade student attending
> O'Connell Middle School, and every trimester, every student is allowed
> to switch electives and pick a new one. I decided to choose cooking
> (family and consumer science) as my selection, however my TVI and the
> cooking teacher are both implying that I will need a para with me in
> there at all times. I chose cooking because it is something I am good
> at, and I do it all the time. But, both teachers are persisting that I
> need a para. What should I tell them, because they aren't listening?
> Do I need an advocate?
> Thanks,
> JJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co
m
>
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:20:00 -0800
From: Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID:
<CACUFQdyMNsQKuHcpK+_6bP47BnGHpytinHy-Jyyip8Bg32GB5Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have often told my employers about blindness training and how it
made me an effective problem solver. Use it to your advantage. I was
in a quandry of having a school year look blank on my resume or not,
so I choose to list it. I also explain how my experiences have helped
me and how they will make me a more effective employee. But that is a
personal choice. I may have missed a few interviews because of listing
it, but I have also gotten some.
Cindy
On 11/11/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ashley, the rehab center I attended did not teach any job skills or
> anything. Sure they had us read a bunch of hand outs, but any one can
read
> a
> bunch of hand outs and pass a test! RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>
>
>> RJ,
>> They do teach job skills. just talk to a center graduate and you'll
get
> the
>> answer.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RJ Sandefur
>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:18 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>
>> I could be wrong here, but I don't really see where rehabilitation
>> centers
>> are teaching both social and job skills. RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>
>>
>> > Minh,
>> >
>> > You seem to have had a very fortunate experience. I lost my sight
as an
>> > adult, but in my experience, most blind people, especially
children,
>> > don't have an experience like yours. If more families adopted an
>> > attitude like yours, we may not be having this discussion.
>> >
>> > And on a side note, I notice few people have analytical reasoning
>> > skills
>> > and the ability to be self-taught regardless of disability. Some
>> > people,
>> > for whatever reason, don't possess the ability to learn this way,
>> > therefore requiring a more formal teaching process.
>> >
>> > And life skills, these can easily be taught to blind people without
>> > shipping off to a specialized training center. But skills like
Braille,
>> > adaptive technology, cane travel, etc., these are specialized
skills
>> > that are not always easily picked up. It's for these skills that
>> > training centers are necessary.
>> >
>> > I think how we comport ourselves has a lot to do with how the world
>> > perceives us and our abilities. Right or wrong, when you present
>> > yourself to an employer, they are immediately judging you based on
>> > physical appearance. If you walk in well-groomed, confident and
polite,
>> > this goes a long way, sighted or blind. If you enter a room
appearing
>> > to
>> > not be confident and not looking polished physically and mentally,
an
>> > employer will automatically have red flags. This is just human
nature.
>> >
>> > So, sadly, few blind people are provided the experience afforded
you in
>> > this department. They don't naturally possess confidence, and
>> > regretfully, many people in their lives do not foster a spirit of
>> > confidence. So without training centers, I do think fewer people
would
>> > be employed. This isn't to say that getting a job will be easy as a
>> > blind person because you received training or carry yourself with
>> > confidence, but your chances certainly are better.
>> >
>> > And yes, a few studies have been conducted pointing to the
advantage of
>> > attending a training center for the blind. Those with this
background,
>> > especially those not taught nonvisual skills beforehand, do better
in
>> > school, employment and life in general.
>> >
>> > Bridgit
>> > Message: 3
>> > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:33:06 -0500
>> > From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> >
<CAAJqG9hYUgmy=_M2GLmwOmdknimkhUc6Y=Fgg8fBdHC0z6RX-g at mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>> >
>> > All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep
saying
>> > how
>> > going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to
gain
>> > employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these
success
>> > stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain employment
>> > afterwards because of their new found independence skills and are
these
>> > numbers higher than those that do not attend training centers?
Maybe
>> > it's different for me because I had vision for the first few years
of
>> > my
>> > life, but all the skills that I've acquired over the years, I
learned
>> > from my family and friends. I remember growing up, cooking was one
of
>> > the activities that my best friend and I experimented together; she
>> > didn't know cooking skills either so we played around in the
kitchen
>> > and
>> > taught ourselves how to use a stove, etc. I think we place too much
>> > responsibility on others--if I want to learn something, I teach
myself
>> > or I ask someone who knows it to teach me. Furthermore, I can't see
>> > myself taking 6-9 months to essentially remove myself from society
to
>> > focus on blindness skills so I can gain employment. I have had many
>> > internships and opportunities in college because I actually go out
>> > there
>> > and network and present myself to potential employers. My point is
>> > experience is the best teacher--I can learn all the independence
skills
>> > I need at a center, but it's not going to do me any good without
the
>> > experience.
>> >
>> > Minh
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>> nabs-l:
>> >
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
40gm
>> ail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl
ink.
> net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
40gm
> ail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>
--
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:33:02 -0700
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
Message-ID:
<CALAYQJCd3=XmSwpUof8FLgKLon6GPSvNHvjjs7821s-Zpyc9fA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi all,
I think a volunteer-based in-home training program like what Bridgit
described would be really excellent to have in every state. I know a
bunch of blind folks who are unemployed but who would make great
in-home teachers for other blind people. Why not set them up first as
volunteers, and then allow them to be hired as independent contractors
of the state VR once they gain enough experience? At the very least,
voc rehab needs to be better about matching blind mentors up with
menttes particularly those who cannot go to a formal center. Those of
us who have other disabilities or health conditions need the help most
and tend to get it least.
I will also admit that I've met several NFB center grads who remain
unemployed for a long time after graduating, and often settle down in
the town where the center is located but don't participate in school
or work. This can happen for many reasons. Some have barriers to
employment or higher education that the centers just can't address,
like psychiatric conditions, chronic illnesses etc. For others who
come to the center from out of state, they find it difficult to
integrate what they learn into their old environment, for instance if
they have over-protective families or a lack of blindness community
support where they live. And finally, our centers are really designed
to teach access and independence skills but they're not designed to
teach job-specific professional skills or much in the way of academic
skills. Perhaps our centers could improve on that, though I don't know
exactly how.
Arielle
On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have often told my employers about blindness training and how it
> made me an effective problem solver. Use it to your advantage. I was
> in a quandry of having a school year look blank on my resume or not,
> so I choose to list it. I also explain how my experiences have helped
> me and how they will make me a more effective employee. But that is a
> personal choice. I may have missed a few interviews because of listing
> it, but I have also gotten some.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 11/11/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ashley, the rehab center I attended did not teach any job skills or
>> anything. Sure they had us read a bunch of hand outs, but any one can
>> read
>> a
>> bunch of hand outs and pass a test! RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>
>>
>>> RJ,
>>> They do teach job skills. just talk to a center graduate and you'll
get
>> the
>>> answer.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: RJ Sandefur
>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:18 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>>
>>> I could be wrong here, but I don't really see where rehabilitation
>>> centers
>>> are teaching both social and job skills. RJ
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>>
>>>
>>> > Minh,
>>> >
>>> > You seem to have had a very fortunate experience. I lost my sight
as
>>> > an
>>> > adult, but in my experience, most blind people, especially
children,
>>> > don't have an experience like yours. If more families adopted an
>>> > attitude like yours, we may not be having this discussion.
>>> >
>>> > And on a side note, I notice few people have analytical reasoning
>>> > skills
>>> > and the ability to be self-taught regardless of disability. Some
>>> > people,
>>> > for whatever reason, don't possess the ability to learn this way,
>>> > therefore requiring a more formal teaching process.
>>> >
>>> > And life skills, these can easily be taught to blind people
without
>>> > shipping off to a specialized training center. But skills like
>>> > Braille,
>>> > adaptive technology, cane travel, etc., these are specialized
skills
>>> > that are not always easily picked up. It's for these skills that
>>> > training centers are necessary.
>>> >
>>> > I think how we comport ourselves has a lot to do with how the
world
>>> > perceives us and our abilities. Right or wrong, when you present
>>> > yourself to an employer, they are immediately judging you based on
>>> > physical appearance. If you walk in well-groomed, confident and
>>> > polite,
>>> > this goes a long way, sighted or blind. If you enter a room
appearing
>>> > to
>>> > not be confident and not looking polished physically and mentally,
an
>>> > employer will automatically have red flags. This is just human
nature.
>>> >
>>> > So, sadly, few blind people are provided the experience afforded
you
>>> > in
>>> > this department. They don't naturally possess confidence, and
>>> > regretfully, many people in their lives do not foster a spirit of
>>> > confidence. So without training centers, I do think fewer people
would
>>> > be employed. This isn't to say that getting a job will be easy as
a
>>> > blind person because you received training or carry yourself with
>>> > confidence, but your chances certainly are better.
>>> >
>>> > And yes, a few studies have been conducted pointing to the
advantage
>>> > of
>>> > attending a training center for the blind. Those with this
background,
>>> > especially those not taught nonvisual skills beforehand, do better
in
>>> > school, employment and life in general.
>>> >
>>> > Bridgit
>>> > Message: 3
>>> > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:33:06 -0500
>>> > From: minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>> > Message-ID:
>>> >
>>> >
<CAAJqG9hYUgmy=_M2GLmwOmdknimkhUc6Y=Fgg8fBdHC0z6RX-g at mail.gmail.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>> >
>>> > All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep
saying
>>> > how
>>> > going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to
gain
>>> > employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these
success
>>> > stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain employment
>>> > afterwards because of their new found independence skills and are
>>> > these
>>> > numbers higher than those that do not attend training centers?
Maybe
>>> > it's different for me because I had vision for the first few years
of
>>> > my
>>> > life, but all the skills that I've acquired over the years, I
learned
>>> > from my family and friends. I remember growing up, cooking was one
of
>>> > the activities that my best friend and I experimented together;
she
>>> > didn't know cooking skills either so we played around in the
kitchen
>>> > and
>>> > taught ourselves how to use a stove, etc. I think we place too
much
>>> > responsibility on others--if I want to learn something, I teach
myself
>>> > or I ask someone who knows it to teach me. Furthermore, I can't
see
>>> > myself taking 6-9 months to essentially remove myself from society
to
>>> > focus on blindness skills so I can gain employment. I have had
many
>>> > internships and opportunities in college because I actually go out
>>> > there
>>> > and network and present myself to potential employers. My point is
>>> > experience is the best teacher--I can learn all the independence
>>> > skills
>>> > I need at a center, but it's not going to do me any good without
the
>>> > experience.
>>> >
>>> > Minh
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:41:26 -0700
From: johnnie Jean duran <johnniejduran at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Self-Advocacy Question
Message-ID:
<CAOiA0Svn8f2EJ=p2n2khJtGEvzt3O4Q108-aYJOkQGzh_C9F6Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Arielle:
Thank you, I definitely appreciate your willing to help with this
situation. The Cooking class will begin tomorrow, and i am not
required to have a para, but my tvi is implying that it'd be best for
me. However, I definitely disagree, and am totally capable of
participating within the class on my own. I have honestly never even
met the teacher before today, and the confidence that she had in me
was very low. I have talked to my mother, and she has left voicemails
in both of their mailboxes, so hopefully something gets done! However,
I will let you know, because in my opinion, if they were to see
another blind individual, who independently cooks explain things to
them, it might change their mind.
Thank you so much Arielle!
JJ
On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi JJ,
>
> I don't think you need a para, especially if you already have a lot of
> experience cooking. Are your parents willing to stand up for you?
> Ultimately it's their decision, so if your parents say that you should
> participate equally in the class without somebody standing by your
> side, then that is what should happen. You could also try contacting
> Scott LaBarre, Brent Batron or someone else in CO who could advocate
> for you. I live in Colorado and would be happy to talk with your TVI
> as a blind person who cooks independently. If your parents are
> supporting you and on your side, they can write a letter to the TVI
> and teacher requesting you participate fully in the class without a
> para, and can perhaps set up a special meeting to discuss this
> arrangement. Even if your teachers require a para to be there, you can
> still request the para stand back and let you participate fully in the
> class. You will get much more out of the class that way. When does the
> class start?
>
> Arielle
>
> On 11/11/13, johnnie Jean duran <johnniejduran at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear National Association of Blind Students,
>> As some of you may know, I am currently an 8th grade student
attending
>> O'Connell Middle School, and every trimester, every student is
allowed
>> to switch electives and pick a new one. I decided to choose cooking
>> (family and consumer science) as my selection, however my TVI and the
>> cooking teacher are both implying that I will need a para with me in
>> there at all times. I chose cooking because it is something I am good
>> at, and I do it all the time. But, both teachers are persisting that
I
>> need a para. What should I tell them, because they aren't listening?
>> Do I need an advocate?
>> Thanks,
>> JJ
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co
m
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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l.com
>
--
Ms. Johnnie Jean Duran
8th Grade Student
O'Connell Middle School - An IB World School
Member Of The National Federation Of The Blind Of Colorado, The
Colorado Association Of Blind Students, and the North Metro Chapter of
the NFB.
Facebook: facebook.com/johnniejean.duran
Instagram: jj_duran13
Skype: jj.duran13
Kik: jjd_13
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:43:40 -0800
From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, National Association of Blind Students
mailing
list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Self-Advocacy Question
Message-ID:
<mailman.23357.1384220633.28931.nabs-l_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hi, jJ,
What the hell is a para?
for today, Car
408-209-3239At 04:41 PM 11/11/2013, johnnie Jean duran wrote:
>Arielle:
>Thank you, I definitely appreciate your willing to help with this
>situation. The Cooking class will begin tomorrow, and i am not
>required to have a para, but my tvi is implying that it'd be best for
>me. However, I definitely disagree, and am totally capable of
>participating within the class on my own. I have honestly never even
>met the teacher before today, and the confidence that she had in me
>was very low. I have talked to my mother, and she has left voicemails
>in both of their mailboxes, so hopefully something gets done! However,
>I will let you know, because in my opinion, if they were to see
>another blind individual, who independently cooks explain things to
>them, it might change their mind.
>Thank you so much Arielle!
>JJ
>
>On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi JJ,
> >
> > I don't think you need a para, especially if you already have a lot
of
> > experience cooking. Are your parents willing to stand up for you?
> > Ultimately it's their decision, so if your parents say that you
should
> > participate equally in the class without somebody standing by your
> > side, then that is what should happen. You could also try contacting
> > Scott LaBarre, Brent Batron or someone else in CO who could advocate
> > for you. I live in Colorado and would be happy to talk with your
TVI
> > as a blind person who cooks independently. If your parents are
> > supporting you and on your side, they can write a letter to the TVI
> > and teacher requesting you participate fully in the class without a
> > para, and can perhaps set up a special meeting to discuss this
> > arrangement. Even if your teachers require a para to be there, you
can
> > still request the para stand back and let you participate fully in
the
> > class. You will get much more out of the class that way. When does
the
> > class start?
> >
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 11/11/13, johnnie Jean duran <johnniejduran at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Dear National Association of Blind Students,
> >> As some of you may know, I am currently an 8th grade student
attending
> >> O'Connell Middle School, and every trimester, every student is
allowed
> >> to switch electives and pick a new one. I decided to choose cooking
> >> (family and consumer science) as my selection, however my TVI and
the
> >> cooking teacher are both implying that I will need a para with me
in
> >> there at all times. I chose cooking because it is something I am
good
> >> at, and I do it all the time. But, both teachers are persisting
that I
> >> need a para. What should I tell them, because they aren't
listening?
> >> Do I need an advocate?
> >> Thanks,
> >> JJ
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co
m
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
> > nabs-l:
> >
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/johnniejduran%40gmai
l.com
> >
>
>
>--
>Ms. Johnnie Jean Duran
>8th Grade Student
>O'Connell Middle School - An IB World School
>Member Of The National Federation Of The Blind Of Colorado, The
>Colorado Association Of Blind Students, and the North Metro Chapter of
>the NFB.
>Facebook: facebook.com/johnniejean.duran
>Instagram: jj_duran13
>Skype: jj.duran13
>Kik: jjd_13
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.
net
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