[nabs-l] Stop Blaming the Economy

[Joe]

Tyler,

Are you saying my position in the government is comfortable because you
think they hire anything off the street or because they bend backward to
give you anything you need? You'd be sorely mistaken on both counts. It took
me years to get into an agency that only hires a couple hundred for every
few thousand who apply, and as for accommodations, I had far better luck in
the private sector getting what I need than I've gotten in the federal
government. You'd think government would be the most disability-friendly
employer. That's a knee slapper.

I'm not sure why you would pretend to know my work history. I have in fact
worked, and still work with, the same major corporations and shoe string
businesses you reference. I honestly don't see where you were headed with
that line of thinking. I've encountered the same biases and prejudices at
employers large and small. I've even had experiences where I show up for an
interview after being vetted and got turned away upon discovering I was
blind. I could have developed some sort of a record for taking some of these
places to court, but instead I went back home and began working on the next
batch of applications. The irony is that even now when I want to provide
services for free as a philanthropic gesture, there are places that do not
want the volunteer service. I keep looking, because there are ten other
places that will gladly accept the free labor.

You claim my bootstraps ideal is very, very flawed but give no compelling
evidence proving it. You did not answer my direct question in the other post
about what alternative advice you would provide. I am left to assume that
you have no answer, and that's okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm left
to  gather you are young, still in school and can therefore not give
concrete evidence to what it is like to be unemployed, truly unemployed,
something I have been and can testify to the feeling of overbearing
frustration it conjures.

If some of us alumni come back to the list, it's to try to give you a
glimpse of what waits for you and dispense proven advice that will help you
get around the inevitable challenges. If my way of thinking does not suit
you, I totally respect that, but don't fight the benefit my logic could have
on others. After all, I began this thread in direct response to references
in the training center discussion to graduates who could not find jobs on
account of the economy. That's one quick way to give up on looking for jobs
and giving up on oneself. The suggestion that my style of thinking is an
idealistic notion is laughable. Idealistic is putting faith in a government
system that will not be able to sustain social benefits forever. Social
Security is just one example of a benefit our generation will more than
likely not be able to enjoy when we need it, and that's not ideology, that's
economics.

I would argue the more you teach yourself to pull yourself up by your own
bootstraps, the less dependent you will be on the whims of Congress, an
employer, or your family. That's real independence.

And, to those who are not doing what they can to help blind people find
jobs, point me to them so's I can smack them about a bit! It's a disservice
not to do what we can to help each other out, but I'll say this much
speaking for myself, I only put my own neck out for people committed to hard
work. I've already been burned by someone I helped put into a good position.
It severely backfired and destroyed my reputation with that employer. Never
again.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Littlefield, Tyler [mailto:tyler at tysdomain.com] 
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 12:08 PM
To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Stop Blaming the Economy

Joe:
Through this thread, my point hasn't been to say that blind people are not
capable of working. In fact, if that were my stance I wouldn't be working
through college right now, taking out loans to cover what scholarships do
not. My point is to say that your conservative "I have a job and so should
you--just pull yourself up by the bootstraps" ideal is very very flawed. You
began this thread initially complaining about people who blame the economy,
to which I agreed partially and said that while there are some people who
do, the economy makes it a lot harder to get jobs. It increases the
difficulty for us as blind applicants because we already have other hurtles
in the way--assistive technology, accomadations, etc etc. Basically I'm
saying it's not quite as easy as you make it sound, while boasting about
yourself and skills at the same time. Most people looking for jobs (even
sighted people) will agree here. You hold a pretty comfortable position
within the government, which I dare say is not really the same as applying
to a huge corporation or even a smaller business with minimal resources.

On 11/15/2013 11:15 PM, Joe wrote:
> Tyler,
>
> The difficulty in finding clients for your web development skills is a 
> marketing issue, not a general employment concern. I'm not belittling 
> your frustration of finding customers, but hustling for clients is 
> part of the nature of an entrepreneur, regardless of whether you set 
> up a full business or just sell yourself. Outside of Craigslist, which 
> I would never recommend because of their general decline where service 
> advertisement is concerned, I would look into Elance and Odesk. You'll 
> need to be careful with clients interested in low bids over top 
> talent, but that's going to be true no matter what website forum you 
> set up shop. You'll need to advertise across social networks, pick up 
> the phone and make cold calls, and yes, in some cases you'll need to 
> volunteer at first to prove your worth before someone hires you. 
> That's how I picked up Serotek as a client. The crazy thing is that 
> even after you secure new business, you still need to devote time to 
> marketing for more, because you never know when the safety net will drop
out from under you.
>
> I see you've set up a website, but it does nothing to motivate me to 
> hire you as a developer. That's not a personal slam. It's candid 
> feedback from a prospective customer.
>
> Finding business is a full-time job, and I understand if balancing 
> that with school is problematic at this stage of your life. But, 
> especially in your high demand field, more skill really does mean more 
> job opportunities. Don't let the stupid media landscape of grim job 
> statistics discourage you from pushing the kind of service you say 
> you're qualified to deliver. It's not what the rest of the economy is 
> up to. It's about what Tyler can specifically help my company do better.
>
> Remember, blind people were finding and keeping jobs long before we 
> had today's technological conveniences. The NFB operation began with a 
> dozen blind people working with far less at our disposal, and while 
> some would argue the NFB is different because it's a social cause, 
> it's because it was a social cause that it took grit and elbow grease 
> to make it get off the ground. A nonprofit is a business like any 
> other, and if our past leaders had just crossed their arms and said, 
> "Well, crap, I guess that's that," we would have never seen the
organization we have today.
>
> Before I move onto Bridgit, let me ask you something in all sincerity. 
> I've now written half a dozen posts with optimistic encouragement and 
> suggestions. You may not like my viewpoint, but I think I've done a 
> fair job of backing up my assertions. What's your alternative? All 
> I've read from you is that the economy sucks, that jobs are too hard 
> to get and that I'm basically delusional for thinking anything 
> different. Never mind that I and many others are the evidence that 
> disprove your gloom and doom way of thinking. Surely you are not 
> suggesting we are anomalies. So, tell us, what would you suggest to 
> the struggling unemployed person who is desperate for a job? Are you 
> basically saying to give up and it sucks to be you? If you offer no 
> alternative, you're basically advocating for the status quo, and 
> you've already said the status quo is no good. So, I am genuinely confused
by your logic.
>
> Bridgit,
>
> First, let's touch on the point about the number of jobs. It would be 
> great if all the jobs we wanted were available where we live. I think 
> we have to reach a point where it makes sense to question whether the 
> area we live in is open to the kind of qualifications I can bring to 
> the market. For example, I would not live in Maine and hope to easily 
> break into screen writing, nor would it be as feasible for me to be a 
> rising star on Wall Street while living in Oklahoma. Is it possible? 
> Anything's possible, but certain regions of the country are better suited
for my skills than others.
> Grant writing is one service I offer as part of my side business, and 
> I live in the perfect place for it given the highest concentration of 
> nonprofits in the country. The persistent evolution of the Internet of 
> things will help bridge some of these gaps, but until our generation 
> fully takes over the job market, we will still have to fight against 
> outdated views that people need to be in a traditional office to get the
work done.
>
> Second, to your point about qualifications, it makes sense to think 
> through what it is we're studying in school before investing in it. 
> Liberal arts aren't going to make people that marketable outside of 
> academic circles, and that's coming from a guy who may as well have 
> graduated with a liberal arts degree. If the qualifications are 
> severely restricting the kind of jobs I can get, something's wrong 
> with what I studied. That's why I'm a big proponent of taking a gap 
> year to figure out yourself and what it is you're really passionate 
> about before spending thousands of dollars in a very expensive education
program.
>
> Next, employers are humans just like we are. Their reactions are going 
> to run a diverse range, but job hunting is a numbers game. There's 
> nothing we can do to eliminate people who take a dim view of blind 
> people, and let's be honest. Their views would not change even if the 
> economy was booming. If they did not discriminate against me for being 
> blind, they might discriminate against me for being Hispanic, male, 
> immigrant, tall, etc. The only cold comfort I can offer is keep 
> applying or move to an area with more open minds.
>
> Finding a job after spending years as a stay-at-home parent is not 
> easy, nor is it fair. A stay-at-home mom knows more about running a 
> company than the CEO given her responsibilities of time management, 
> budgeting, planning and executing, but you know, the more I think 
> about these qualities, the more they could make for a compelling 
> resume. You're a great writer. Something tells me you more than others 
> will find creative ways of conveying your talents. Not every employer 
> will bite, but the one that does will be an awesome match.
>
> And, generally speaking to the list, I guess that's all I have. There 
> is such a thing is diminishing returns for people who refuse to listen 
> to something other than the tired arguments that it's the fault of the 
> economy or my disability or the next-door neighbor. I am accused of 
> being too idealistic, but when real unemployment strikes, it's very 
> easy to begin questioning your self-worth. When I'm down in the dumps 
> and wondering if I stumbled down the wrong path in life, I would 
> personally rather here of how I might just make my passion work 
> instead of constant reminders that we have it so bad for being blind 
> and for having to compete against so many applicants.
>
> To each his own. Me, there's a company I've been eager to work for 
> these past few years. I believe next year I'll make a resolution to 
> get off my ass and earn at least a part-time  contract there. 
> Statistics be damned. They'd be lucky to have me working for them. 
> Arrogant? Absolutely, but it's one of many possible ways to separating 
> the great from the good. The key is figuring out the approach that makes
you better.
>
> To your success,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.
> com


--
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that
dares not reason is a slave.