[nabs-l] Need some help college issues

Sat Nov 23 18:16:03 UTC 2013

We do have a Blind Math list on the nfbnet.org server, with lots of 
knowledgable people subscribed, most of the big whigs in the blind 
math field, http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org

to join.

Dave

At 07:57 PM 11/22/2013, you wrote:
>Hi Bridget,
>
>My daughter has a vision impairment, is a white cane user, and a Braille
>reader. Last summer she was able to successfully complete a college math
>course, but not without some accessibility issues along the way. I know she
>would tell you that trying to use JAWS to do math isn't the way to go and
>that Nemeth Code is necessary. With Nemeth she completed the class on time
>and ended up with an "A". Without if, I don't think she would have been able
>to complete the class in a timely manner, and certainly not with an "A".
>
>I agree with Helga that you are more likely to get assistance if you go
>higher up the chain of command. This semester my daughter had major
>accessibility issues (at a different college than we dealt with last
>summer). At her current college the Disability Office wasn't providing
>effective assistance, one professor's class was completely inaccessible, and
>academic life was a nightmare.
>
>After talking and writing emails didn't work, our strategy was to find who
>was the 504 Compliance Officer at her college. Then, we wrote a detailed
>letter. My daughter wrote the narrative part of her experience and I wrote
>the legal part. We clearly outlined how they were violating Section 504 and
>stated that if the issues were not addressed within x number of days we
>would file a formal complaint. (Not a lawsuit, but a complaint).
>
>This got attention. While everything isn't perfect, it is MUCH better. Had
>we not gotten things turned around, we would have filed a formal complaint.
>Had that not worked, we would have filed a lawsuit. Fortunately, we didn't
>have to do more than spend 16 hours writing a very detailed, highly
>targeted, letter.
>
>If you want more information, and possibly assistance in writing a letter,
>contact me off-list: brafford at mind.net.
>
>Take care and all the best,
>
>Carolyn
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
>Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 4:57 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
>
>Hi Bridget, this is Helga. Sorry to hear all these situations that you're
>going through in your college. I actually can't believe that your professors
>are not coperating in giving you accommodations; I think that's not fair. I
>actually experience the same things that you are going through, not really
>with my professors, but with the Dissability office. They were not providing
>me accomodations that I needed for my classes, like having stuff in Braille.
>So I actually talked to the Vice President of my college, and told him what
>was happening regarding the DSS department, and he did something about it.
>For instance, I'm taking a Pre-Calculus math class, and Literature class
>this semester,  and for my math class I wanted a Braille Pre-Calculus book,
>and he actually bought the book for me, and I'm using it a lot this
>semester. Actually this math book cost 3500 dollars. And I actually face
>many issues with the DSS department still. In fact, just to let you know, my
>professors coper
>  ate with me, for instance my math professor   makes me take her test in her
>office, and she scribes for me, and she is actually the head chair of the
>math department at my college.  Also, I know that my math lab site is not
>accessible with with JAWS, for that my mom help me read the site. By the
>way, have you tried to talk to the Vice President regarding these
>situations? Also, What is the name of your college, and what kind of math
>class are you taking this semester, where you need to use my math lab site?
>Just curious. If you want you can contact me off list, and then I can tell
>you in more detail the situations that I faced in my college, and which I'm
>still are right now! My email address is helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Thanks
>for listening to me, and God bless!! ;)
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 22, 2013, at 5:27 PM, "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
>wrote:
> >
> > Bridget,
> >
> > I invite you to contact me off list, and is be happy to discuss this
>situation with you and perhaps help you a numerate some options. I had a
>very similar situation at my previous university in Florida, and eventually
>did have to take legal action against the university before issues in the
>Math and disability services departments were addressed. Though I've since
>left that school, it improved tremendously as a result of our lawsuit and
>will be better now for future blind students. Anyway, I hate to see anyone
>going through what you've described without support, and I would love to
>share my experience and help you in any way I can.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jamie
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 22, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com>
>wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm glad I'm not the only one who
>thinks this is crazy. I'm acting on everything trying to plan my next step.
>I'll keep you posted.
> >>
> >> Bridget
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On Nov 22, 2013, at 12:55 PM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com>
>wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Bridget.  This situation is not right at all.  I know how difficult
> >>> using my math lab can be.  I used tutors to read me the questions that
> >>> were on the my math lab site and did the questions with my tutor.  I
> >>> didn't do all the questions, but about half of them, my math
> >>> professors were very acomidating in this regard.  I took the tests for
> >>> my math classes, some with the instructors, and some at our colleges
> >>> testing center.  I'd say geometry was one of the hardest math classes
> >>> I took, but some of the algebra wasn't so bad.  Since you have CP, can
> >>> you use a brailler ok?  If so, you should use a brailler to write out
> >>> some of your math problems so you'll understand them.  This does take
> >>> sometime, but is really worth it in the long run.  If I had had one of
> >>> the new notetakers with Nemith braiolle input, I would have used it.
> >>> What your school is doing is completely wrong.  I'm very surprised
> >>> your Disability Support Office didn't help you if your school has a DS
> >>> office.  Please keep us posted on what happens.
> >>>
> >>>> On 11/22/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> >>>> This is true. VR fought me on something and once I filed an official
> >>>> appeal, all of a sudden what I was asking for was approved. They did
>not
> >>>> want to do the legal channel.
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree if she has done all the channel at the school she needs to do
>the
> >>>> next step. In the meantime is there any blind org in your area that
>could
> >>>> help provide braille and the other things you need?
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a lot of usable vision but am totally color blind and when I
>asked
> >>>> DRC for ideas on handling diagrams with color coded lines in my
>computer
> >>>> organization, the first thing they offered was to make tactile versions
>of
> >>>> every diagram in the book.
> >>>>
> >>>> Her school is being completely unreasonable and I think legal action
>may be
> >>>> necessary.
> >>>>
> >>>> Suzanne
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Joshua Lester
> >>>> <JLester8462 at pccua.edu>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yeah!
> >>>>> She has gone to all of the higher-ups in the school, and nothing's
> >>>>> changing.
> >>>>> Once they know she means business, and they hear that a lawsuit is
> >>>>> probable, they'll give her what she needs!
> >>>>> Most people want to avoid lawsuits, so if we "Scare them straight,"
> >>>>> they'll do what's right by her!
> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua
> >>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of justin williams
>[
> >>>>> justin.williams2 at gmail.com]
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 8:59 AM
> >>>>> To: tyler at tysdomain.com; 'National Association of Blind Students
>mailing
> >>>>> list'
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Where should she take it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>Littlefield,
> >>>>> Tyler
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 9:53 AM
> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why is it that instead of working on alternative options, everyone
>jumps
> >>>>> straight for a lawsuit? Maybe she has went through a ton of options,
>but
> >>>>> why
> >>>>> not take it higher rather than say "o gawd nfb time lets sue lets sue
> >>>>> lets
> >>>>> sue o yeah lawsuit!"
> >>>>>> On 11/22/2013 4:49 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> >>>>>> Bridget!
> >>>>>> Good grief!
> >>>>>> You've already gone the nice route, so now it's time to contact Chris
> >>>>> Danielson, and get the NFB involved!
> >>>>>> Can anyone say lawsuit?
> >>>>>> I wouldn't reckomend suing unless you've exhausted all of your
>options,
> >>>>> but it looks like you have!
> >>>>>> Good grief!
> >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
> >>>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bobbi Pompey
> >>>>>> [pompey2010 at yahoo.com]
> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:54 AM
> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is ridiculous. Based on the info provided, you have spoken with
>DS
> >>>>> and professors. And both haven given you I ignorant, insensitive,
>rude,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> most importantly illegal feedback. In my opinion this is the proper
>time
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> work your way up the chain of command. Talk to the head of
> >>>>> departments/colleges that the class falls under. Talk to the
>department
> >>>>> chair over DS. And need be, talk to the Chanselor. Document everything
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> had occurred and remind them of their legal obligations. I'm not
>saying
> >>>>> sue
> >>>>> or threaten to sue them. But in my experiences, Judy saying the word
> >>>>> "illegal" scares them because they don't want a lawsuit. Plus it lets
> >>>>> them
> >>>>> know that you know your rights.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've had similar situations and this is what I did. I hope this
>helps!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> >>>>>> (336) 988-6375
> >>>>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> >>>>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2013, at 12:26 AM, Bridget Walker
> >>>>>>> <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi everyone,
> >>>>>>> I have reached a point where I need all the help I can get. First it
> >>>>> helps to have some background. My primary disability is blindness due
>to
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> TBI. I have another component to my condition which is spastic CP.
> >>>>>>> So I am now a junior, an education major, and think I have it all.
>At
> >>>>> least that's how the semester starts.
> >>>>>>> I need to know what do I do if due to my secondary disabilities that
> >>>>>>> are
> >>>>> not blindness professors either refuse to accommodate me all together
>or
> >>>>> focus on one disability and not the other?
> >>>>>>> My next question is in the area of equal access. I am all for
> >>>>>>> advocating
> >>>>> for yourself in this area and using whatever you have to get the job
> >>>>> done.
> >>>>>>> One of my professors uses google sites and although I made her along
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> DS aware of the accessibility problem I am still required to use the
> >>>>> site.
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> sent everyone the letter Sean sent the list with my explanation but
>they
> >>>>> don't care.
> >>>>>>> Now we move on to art. I'm taking a sculpture class nice and
>tactile.
> >>>>> The
> >>>>> professor refuses to grade me because I'm blind and have CP. I can't
>see
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> can't move my hands the way other people do. She said I receive a pass
> >>>>> fail
> >>>>> for the class and am required to do everything but not for an actual
> >>>>> letter
> >>>>> grade. She told me at the start I can see powerpoints. Ok no if I read
> >>>>> Braille, have a guide dog, and get migraines when I use my eyes I
>don't
> >>>>> think I can see. DS didn't even back me up I had to bring my eye
>report
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> the head of the art department to prove my disability. Let's add in
>the
> >>>>> part
> >>>>> there is already documentation about my disability at DS.
> >>>>>>> Finally we get to math. Let me say I knew math was going to be a
> >>>>> challenge. My book is I not accessible on my math lab with jaws 15.
>The
> >>>>> college wanted me to downgrade my screen reader and my IE version so
>my
> >>>>> math
> >>>>> lab might work. I tested it with an older version of jaws and windows
> >>>>> seven
> >>>>> it is not compatible as far spas I know. Bigger point I should not be
> >>>>> downgrading my technology for a book.
> >>>>>>> Then to have them say what is the big deal?
> >>>>>>> We have an embosser on campus. We are lucky. I have Braille as an
> >>>>> accommodation but, we need someone to Braille my tests because I can't
> >>>>> that's not ok and DS is not trained. DS has brailled before and did
>well
> >>>>> they just won't do it I guess a confidence thing. So I have to take my
> >>>>> tests
> >>>>> with jaws. Jaws and math are not a good combo.
> >>>>>>> I just want to know what do people think of all of this?
> >>>>>>> I have met with as many resources on campus to reach a common ground
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>> I get nowhere.
> >>>>>>> I have a year and a half left. I don't want it to be like this.
> >>>>>>> I feel like I take five steps forward and ten steps back.
> >>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>> Bridget
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>>
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yaho
> >>>>>>> o.com
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu
> >>>>>> a.edu
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.
> >>>>>> com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Take care,
> >>>>> Ty
> >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
> >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool;
>he
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> dares not reason is a slave.