[nabs-l] Need some help college issues

Sat Nov 23 01:57:08 UTC 2013

Hi Bridget,

My daughter has a vision impairment, is a white cane user, and a Braille
reader. Last summer she was able to successfully complete a college math
course, but not without some accessibility issues along the way. I know she
would tell you that trying to use JAWS to do math isn't the way to go and
that Nemeth Code is necessary. With Nemeth she completed the class on time
and ended up with an "A". Without if, I don't think she would have been able
to complete the class in a timely manner, and certainly not with an "A".

I agree with Helga that you are more likely to get assistance if you go
higher up the chain of command. This semester my daughter had major
accessibility issues (at a different college than we dealt with last
summer). At her current college the Disability Office wasn't providing
effective assistance, one professor's class was completely inaccessible, and
academic life was a nightmare. 

After talking and writing emails didn't work, our strategy was to find who
was the 504 Compliance Officer at her college. Then, we wrote a detailed
letter. My daughter wrote the narrative part of her experience and I wrote
the legal part. We clearly outlined how they were violating Section 504 and
stated that if the issues were not addressed within x number of days we
would file a formal complaint. (Not a lawsuit, but a complaint). 

This got attention. While everything isn't perfect, it is MUCH better. Had
we not gotten things turned around, we would have filed a formal complaint.
Had that not worked, we would have filed a lawsuit. Fortunately, we didn't
have to do more than spend 16 hours writing a very detailed, highly
targeted, letter.

If you want more information, and possibly assistance in writing a letter,
contact me off-list: brafford at mind.net. 

Take care and all the best,

Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 4:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues

Hi Bridget, this is Helga. Sorry to hear all these situations that you're
going through in your college. I actually can't believe that your professors
are not coperating in giving you accommodations; I think that's not fair. I
actually experience the same things that you are going through, not really
with my professors, but with the Dissability office. They were not providing
me accomodations that I needed for my classes, like having stuff in Braille.
So I actually talked to the Vice President of my college, and told him what
was happening regarding the DSS department, and he did something about it.
For instance, I'm taking a Pre-Calculus math class, and Literature class
this semester,  and for my math class I wanted a Braille Pre-Calculus book,
and he actually bought the book for me, and I'm using it a lot this
semester. Actually this math book cost 3500 dollars. And I actually face
many issues with the DSS department still. In fact, just to let you know, my
professors coper
 ate with me, for instance my math professor   makes me take her test in her
office, and she scribes for me, and she is actually the head chair of the
math department at my college.  Also, I know that my math lab site is not
accessible with with JAWS, for that my mom help me read the site. By the
way, have you tried to talk to the Vice President regarding these
situations? Also, What is the name of your college, and what kind of math
class are you taking this semester, where you need to use my math lab site?
Just curious. If you want you can contact me off list, and then I can tell
you in more detail the situations that I faced in my college, and which I'm
still are right now! My email address is helga.schreiber at hotmail.com Thanks
for listening to me, and God bless!! ;) 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 22, 2013, at 5:27 PM, "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> Bridget,
> 
> I invite you to contact me off list, and is be happy to discuss this
situation with you and perhaps help you a numerate some options. I had a
very similar situation at my previous university in Florida, and eventually
did have to take legal action against the university before issues in the
Math and disability services departments were addressed. Though I've since
left that school, it improved tremendously as a result of our lawsuit and
will be better now for future blind students. Anyway, I hate to see anyone
going through what you've described without support, and I would love to
share my experience and help you in any way I can. 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jamie
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 22, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com>
wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm glad I'm not the only one who
thinks this is crazy. I'm acting on everything trying to plan my next step.
I'll keep you posted.
>> 
>> Bridget
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Nov 22, 2013, at 12:55 PM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Bridget.  This situation is not right at all.  I know how difficult
>>> using my math lab can be.  I used tutors to read me the questions that
>>> were on the my math lab site and did the questions with my tutor.  I
>>> didn't do all the questions, but about half of them, my math
>>> professors were very acomidating in this regard.  I took the tests for
>>> my math classes, some with the instructors, and some at our colleges
>>> testing center.  I'd say geometry was one of the hardest math classes
>>> I took, but some of the algebra wasn't so bad.  Since you have CP, can
>>> you use a brailler ok?  If so, you should use a brailler to write out
>>> some of your math problems so you'll understand them.  This does take
>>> sometime, but is really worth it in the long run.  If I had had one of
>>> the new notetakers with Nemith braiolle input, I would have used it.
>>> What your school is doing is completely wrong.  I'm very surprised
>>> your Disability Support Office didn't help you if your school has a DS
>>> office.  Please keep us posted on what happens.
>>> 
>>>> On 11/22/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>> This is true. VR fought me on something and once I filed an official
>>>> appeal, all of a sudden what I was asking for was approved. They did
not
>>>> want to do the legal channel.
>>>> 
>>>> I agree if she has done all the channel at the school she needs to do
the
>>>> next step. In the meantime is there any blind org in your area that
could
>>>> help provide braille and the other things you need?
>>>> 
>>>> I have a lot of usable vision but am totally color blind and when I
asked
>>>> DRC for ideas on handling diagrams with color coded lines in my
computer
>>>> organization, the first thing they offered was to make tactile versions
of
>>>> every diagram in the book.
>>>> 
>>>> Her school is being completely unreasonable and I think legal action
may be
>>>> necessary.
>>>> 
>>>> Suzanne
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Joshua Lester
>>>> <JLester8462 at pccua.edu>wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah!
>>>>> She has gone to all of the higher-ups in the school, and nothing's
>>>>> changing.
>>>>> Once they know she means business, and they hear that a lawsuit is
>>>>> probable, they'll give her what she needs!
>>>>> Most people want to avoid lawsuits, so if we "Scare them straight,"
>>>>> they'll do what's right by her!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of justin williams
[
>>>>> justin.williams2 at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 8:59 AM
>>>>> To: tyler at tysdomain.com; 'National Association of Blind Students
mailing
>>>>> list'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
>>>>> 
>>>>> Where should she take it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Littlefield,
>>>>> Tyler
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 9:53 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why is it that instead of working on alternative options, everyone
jumps
>>>>> straight for a lawsuit? Maybe she has went through a ton of options,
but
>>>>> why
>>>>> not take it higher rather than say "o gawd nfb time lets sue lets sue
>>>>> lets
>>>>> sue o yeah lawsuit!"
>>>>>> On 11/22/2013 4:49 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>> Bridget!
>>>>>> Good grief!
>>>>>> You've already gone the nice route, so now it's time to contact Chris
>>>>> Danielson, and get the NFB involved!
>>>>>> Can anyone say lawsuit?
>>>>>> I wouldn't reckomend suing unless you've exhausted all of your
options,
>>>>> but it looks like you have!
>>>>>> Good grief!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bobbi Pompey
>>>>>> [pompey2010 at yahoo.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:54 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is ridiculous. Based on the info provided, you have spoken with
DS
>>>>> and professors. And both haven given you I ignorant, insensitive,
rude,
>>>>> and
>>>>> most importantly illegal feedback. In my opinion this is the proper
time
>>>>> to
>>>>> work your way up the chain of command. Talk to the head of
>>>>> departments/colleges that the class falls under. Talk to the
department
>>>>> chair over DS. And need be, talk to the Chanselor. Document everything
>>>>> that
>>>>> had occurred and remind them of their legal obligations. I'm not
saying
>>>>> sue
>>>>> or threaten to sue them. But in my experiences, Judy saying the word
>>>>> "illegal" scares them because they don't want a lawsuit. Plus it lets
>>>>> them
>>>>> know that you know your rights.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've had similar situations and this is what I did. I hope this
helps!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>>>>> (336) 988-6375
>>>>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>>>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2013, at 12:26 AM, Bridget Walker
>>>>>>> <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>> I have reached a point where I need all the help I can get. First it
>>>>> helps to have some background. My primary disability is blindness due
to
>>>>> a
>>>>> TBI. I have another component to my condition which is spastic CP.
>>>>>>> So I am now a junior, an education major, and think I have it all.
At
>>>>> least that's how the semester starts.
>>>>>>> I need to know what do I do if due to my secondary disabilities that
>>>>>>> are
>>>>> not blindness professors either refuse to accommodate me all together
or
>>>>> focus on one disability and not the other?
>>>>>>> My next question is in the area of equal access. I am all for
>>>>>>> advocating
>>>>> for yourself in this area and using whatever you have to get the job
>>>>> done.
>>>>>>> One of my professors uses google sites and although I made her along
>>>>> with
>>>>> DS aware of the accessibility problem I am still required to use the
>>>>> site.
>>>>> I
>>>>> sent everyone the letter Sean sent the list with my explanation but
they
>>>>> don't care.
>>>>>>> Now we move on to art. I'm taking a sculpture class nice and
tactile.
>>>>> The
>>>>> professor refuses to grade me because I'm blind and have CP. I can't
see
>>>>> and
>>>>> can't move my hands the way other people do. She said I receive a pass
>>>>> fail
>>>>> for the class and am required to do everything but not for an actual
>>>>> letter
>>>>> grade. She told me at the start I can see powerpoints. Ok no if I read
>>>>> Braille, have a guide dog, and get migraines when I use my eyes I
don't
>>>>> think I can see. DS didn't even back me up I had to bring my eye
report
>>>>> to
>>>>> the head of the art department to prove my disability. Let's add in
the
>>>>> part
>>>>> there is already documentation about my disability at DS.
>>>>>>> Finally we get to math. Let me say I knew math was going to be a
>>>>> challenge. My book is I not accessible on my math lab with jaws 15.
The
>>>>> college wanted me to downgrade my screen reader and my IE version so
my
>>>>> math
>>>>> lab might work. I tested it with an older version of jaws and windows
>>>>> seven
>>>>> it is not compatible as far spas I know. Bigger point I should not be
>>>>> downgrading my technology for a book.
>>>>>>> Then to have them say what is the big deal?
>>>>>>> We have an embosser on campus. We are lucky. I have Braille as an
>>>>> accommodation but, we need someone to Braille my tests because I can't
>>>>> that's not ok and DS is not trained. DS has brailled before and did
well
>>>>> they just won't do it I guess a confidence thing. So I have to take my
>>>>> tests
>>>>> with jaws. Jaws and math are not a good combo.
>>>>>>> I just want to know what do people think of all of this?
>>>>>>> I have met with as many resources on campus to reach a common ground
>>>>>>> and
>>>>> I get nowhere.
>>>>>>> I have a year and a half left. I don't want it to be like this.
>>>>>>> I feel like I take five steps forward and ten steps back.
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Bridget
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Ty
>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool;
he
>>>>> that
>>>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> 
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