[nabs-l] Students with guide dogs

I. C. Bray i.c.bray at win.net
Tue Sep 3 13:47:18 UTC 2013 

Tyler,

Personally, I like the Doggy ID Idea.
It is a great outreach tool, and an opportunity to reassert your 
individuality and a perfect opportunity to educate and even shame those 
ridiculous people who should know better.

Plus, I could always use a few thousand dollars from winning a lawsuit, 
especially when I have NFB and ADA regulations on my side!
I like the idea that I can pull out of my jacket pocket, or my dog pouch a 5 
by 7 laminated card with Me and my dog's photo, my dog's name, registration 
ID,  and then dare  anyone to refuse me entrance or service.

Cheers!



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Students with guide dogs


You keep pushing this verification of service dogs like it's a solution
to the fake service dogs issue. It might be one solution or maybe a
partial solution, but what do you propose for owner-trained dogs? Those
dogs, who by your account of what should be allowed and what shouldn't
wouldn't be "properly trained" and certified?
On 9/2/2013 10:00 PM, Suzanne Germano wrote:
> What does well behaved dogs have to do with properly certified service
> animals. I should not be able to take my German Shepherd into a store just
> because he is well behaved and I am blind if he is not trained to be a
> guide dog. I would love to bring my dogs everywhere but they are not
> trained as guide dogs. I believe that service dogs should have to be
> properly trained and certified by an agency otherwise everyone will just
> bring pets into stores and claim they are service dogs.
>
> I have seen several dogs in stores recently with nothing on them 
> indicating
> they are service animals but becausee they are small no one says anything.
> I bet if I brought my shepherd into costco someone would say something
> about it.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Julie McGinnity 
> <kaybaycar at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> First of all, though the issue of fake service dogs complicates
>> things, it is not helpful to treat the guide dog school ID as an
>> access card that will prove the legitimacy of our dogs.  I know plenty
>> of owner trainers who have very well-behaved dogs.  They would not be
>> able to prove that they got their guides from a school.  So then, what
>> would happen?  They would be kicked out of establishments or forced to
>> make their own IDs.  What would this accomplish?
>>
>> As for showing documentation to housing, dorms and other on campus
>> housing are covered under the FHA(fair Housing Act).  Under FHA, it is
>> illegal for a housing association of any kind to ask for health
>> records on service dogs.  We could debate all day about whether or not
>> this is a good idea.  Frankly, I can see both sides of it, at least
>> for dorms.  But it doesn't matter because it is actually illegal.  So
>> are pet deposits, size requirements, and of course, refusal of the
>> service dog for any reason.  This covers public housing accomidations
>> and depends on numbers.  Anyone renting a certain number of rooms,
>> apartment complexes, and dorms are covered.
>>
>> I would also point out that it is the handeler's choice where to take
>> a guide dog.  Noone can or should decide that for anyone else.  I, for
>> example, will always take my current dog to convention, but I
>> understand and respect those who choose not to do this.  It is also
>> not up to anyone but the handeler to decide when to use the dog.  We
>> guide dog users get a lot of opinions from others about when, how, and
>> what to do with our dogs.  Yes, some of them are well-meaning, but
>> much of the time they are uncalled for.
>>
>> I do agree that some guide dog users make a bad name for the rest of
>> us.  But at the same time, every guide dog user makes a mistake.  I
>> have had moments where I dropped the leash for a second, and my dog
>> ran after another dog.  I got yelled at and deserved it.  We are only
>> human and make mistakes and get distracted.  Remember that the next
>> time you see a dog relieve itself in the hotel at convention.  My dog
>> has never done this, but she has done other embarrassing things at
>> convention.
>>
>> I think we need to give each other a little grace here.  It's time for
>> the cane users to support the dog users and their rights to take
>> charge over their own dogs.  (This goes for other dog users too.)  And
>> it's also time for the dog users to stop worrying about the dog verses
>> cane debate and use their dogs and canes when and how they want.  Yes,
>> dog users still have to use canes some of the time.
>>
>> My last point I would like to make is that it is within the law for
>> the owner of an establishment to refuse access to a dog who is dirty
>> or otherwise disruptive to business. This is what a lot of people tend
>> to forgot about the ADA.  So if a dog is not groomed and is not clean,
>> the handeler will have other problems besides bothering people with
>> allergies.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/1/13, Robin <robin-melvin at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> I presume it is a health question because as I
>>> recall the initial EMAIL post to this list was
>>> wondering whether or not it is permissible under
>>> the ADA guidelines for a college or university to
>>> request  vaccination records of a service/guide dog.
>>>
>>> I presume it is NOT an ADA guideline issue. I
>>> don't SEE the difference between requesting a
>>> service/guide dog's vaccination records or a
>>> students immunization records  especially with
>>> all of the concern of contageous diseases  such
>>> as the flu. They are, in my humble opinion, just
>>> trying to be proactive to protect the
>>> staff/student population, who regularly
>>> attend/visit their campus of learning, and that
>>> is what, in my EYES makes it a health concern/issue.
>>>
>>> Sent From Robin M.
>>>
>>> At 12:46 PM 8/31/2013, you wrote:
>>>> BS"D I only want to point out some things. It is
>>>> not the dog's coat which gives the allergic
>>>> reaction, it is the dog's saliva. The saliva
>>>> consists of allergen which make some people
>>>> sick. Actually, every dog owner carry allergen
>>>> and therefore the dog is not the only problem
>>>> for people with dog allergies. A dog who is well
>>>> cared of, bathed and gromed do not cause more
>>>> problems for a person with dog allergies then a
>>>> dog owner in general does. Many persons with dog
>>>> allergies can take medecins but for few people
>>>> this do not work, for them it would be a problem
>>>> to only meet a dog owner. I do not hope none
>>>> take this personally but I only want to clear up
>>>> things. I live in a country where the Allergic
>>>> lobby has a very strong voice which makes it
>>>> hard to live with a guide dog here. We get
>>>> refused to enter shops, restaurants and
>>>> universities because 'a person can get an
>>>> allergic attack'. Okay, therefore this subject
>>>> is close to my heart. I understand that it can
>>>> be a problem for people with allergies but it is
>>>> not my problem, my dog is well taken care of and
>>>> she will not be upin  people faces. I really
>>>> feel for Joshua and others, it must be difficult
>>>> but I wish it would be more respectful
>>>> especially in my own country where it sounds
>>>> lile my dog would kill people with dog allergies
>>>> which is not true. Kind regards, Mlle.
>>>> Leye-Shprintse íberg Courriel :
>>>> leyeshprintse at ymail.com Journal :
>>>> http://leyeshprintse.blogspot.com Envoyé de mon
>>>> iPad Mini
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>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that 
dares not reason is a slave.


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