[nabs-l] Students with guide dogs

I. C. Bray i.c.bray at win.net
Tue Sep 3 14:00:46 UTC 2013 

Hey, I have an idea!  LOL!
Make the DRC / DS office issue Puppy-Student ID's!!

Shamelessly Grinning !
Ian  C. Bray

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Students with guide dogs


You can give a dog training and call it a service dog. They're called
owner-trained dogs.

Basically here's my thoughts on this.
Whether or not it is legally required, if Minh wants to provide the info
she should go for it. If it were a request from say, dining or housing,
I'd have told her 100% yes, do it. As it stands, it's an issue with an
already lacking DS office who wants the information "just in case."
Whatever yor views are on whether or not we should have tracker chips
and IDS to say we're blind and ids to say we should have a cane and ids
to say we have a qualified service dog (whatever qualified means at this
point), forking over information just because is a little crazy. I also
think this helps foster the sort of attitude where departments
communicate with the DS office as opposed to the student herself.
On 9/3/2013 1:03 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
> Suzanne,
> I see you're not going to win the argument with Joe.
> I see where you're coming from, but if the law says they cannot ask 
> intrusive questions, then the school shouldn't.
>
> As for training, you are oversimplifying. The dog has to meet some 
> requirements and I think trainers from the guide dog school come to your 
> home to provide some of this training.
> You cannot simply give a dog some training and call it a service dog.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 12:52 AM
> To: tyler at tysdomain.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Students with guide dogs
>
> I did not know anyone can just train their own dog and call it a service
> dog.
>
> So I can train my dog to stop at curbs and other things that my dog from
> Guide Dog for the Blind dog did and I can then have him legally be a
> service dog?
>
> Never knew this.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 7:04 PM, Littlefield, Tyler 
> <tyler at tysdomain.com>wrote:
>
>> You keep pushing this verification of service dogs like it's a solution 
>> to
>> the fake service dogs issue. It might be one solution or maybe a partial
>> solution, but what do you propose for owner-trained dogs? Those dogs, who
>> by your account of what should be allowed and what shouldn't wouldn't be
>> "properly trained" and certified?
>> On 9/2/2013 10:00 PM, Suzanne Germano wrote:
>>
>>> What does well behaved dogs have to do with properly certified service
>>> animals. I should not be able to take my German Shepherd into a store 
>>> just
>>> because he is well behaved and I am blind if he is not trained to be a
>>> guide dog. I would love to bring my dogs everywhere but they are not
>>> trained as guide dogs. I believe that service dogs should have to be
>>> properly trained and certified by an agency otherwise everyone will just
>>> bring pets into stores and claim they are service dogs.
>>>
>>> I have seen several dogs in stores recently with nothing on them
>>> indicating
>>> they are service animals but becausee they are small no one says 
>>> anything.
>>> I bet if I brought my shepherd into costco someone would say something
>>> about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> First of all, though the issue of fake service dogs complicates
>>>> things, it is not helpful to treat the guide dog school ID as an
>>>> access card that will prove the legitimacy of our dogs.  I know plenty
>>>> of owner trainers who have very well-behaved dogs.  They would not be
>>>> able to prove that they got their guides from a school.  So then, what
>>>> would happen?  They would be kicked out of establishments or forced to
>>>> make their own IDs.  What would this accomplish?
>>>>
>>>> As for showing documentation to housing, dorms and other on campus
>>>> housing are covered under the FHA(fair Housing Act).  Under FHA, it is
>>>> illegal for a housing association of any kind to ask for health
>>>> records on service dogs.  We could debate all day about whether or not
>>>> this is a good idea.  Frankly, I can see both sides of it, at least
>>>> for dorms.  But it doesn't matter because it is actually illegal.  So
>>>> are pet deposits, size requirements, and of course, refusal of the
>>>> service dog for any reason.  This covers public housing accomidations
>>>> and depends on numbers.  Anyone renting a certain number of rooms,
>>>> apartment complexes, and dorms are covered.
>>>>
>>>> I would also point out that it is the handeler's choice where to take
>>>> a guide dog.  Noone can or should decide that for anyone else.  I, for
>>>> example, will always take my current dog to convention, but I
>>>> understand and respect those who choose not to do this.  It is also
>>>> not up to anyone but the handeler to decide when to use the dog.  We
>>>> guide dog users get a lot of opinions from others about when, how, and
>>>> what to do with our dogs.  Yes, some of them are well-meaning, but
>>>> much of the time they are uncalled for.
>>>>
>>>> I do agree that some guide dog users make a bad name for the rest of
>>>> us.  But at the same time, every guide dog user makes a mistake.  I
>>>> have had moments where I dropped the leash for a second, and my dog
>>>> ran after another dog.  I got yelled at and deserved it.  We are only
>>>> human and make mistakes and get distracted.  Remember that the next
>>>> time you see a dog relieve itself in the hotel at convention.  My dog
>>>> has never done this, but she has done other embarrassing things at
>>>> convention.
>>>>
>>>> I think we need to give each other a little grace here. It's time for
>>>> the cane users to support the dog users and their rights to take
>>>> charge over their own dogs.  (This goes for other dog users too.)  And
>>>> it's also time for the dog users to stop worrying about the dog verses
>>>> cane debate and use their dogs and canes when and how they want.  Yes,
>>>> dog users still have to use canes some of the time.
>>>>
>>>> My last point I would like to make is that it is within the law for
>>>> the owner of an establishment to refuse access to a dog who is dirty
>>>> or otherwise disruptive to business. This is what a lot of people tend
>>>> to forgot about the ADA.  So if a dog is not groomed and is not clean,
>>>> the handeler will have other problems besides bothering people with
>>>> allergies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/1/13, Robin <robin-melvin at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I presume it is a health question because as I
>>>>> recall the initial EMAIL post to this list was
>>>>> wondering whether or not it is permissible under
>>>>> the ADA guidelines for a college or university to
>>>>> request  vaccination records of a service/guide dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> I presume it is NOT an ADA guideline issue. I
>>>>> don't SEE the difference between requesting a
>>>>> service/guide dog's vaccination records or a
>>>>> students immunization records  especially with
>>>>> all of the concern of contageous diseases  such
>>>>> as the flu. They are, in my humble opinion, just
>>>>> trying to be proactive to protect the
>>>>> staff/student population, who regularly
>>>>> attend/visit their campus of learning, and that
>>>>> is what, in my EYES makes it a health concern/issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent From Robin M.
>>>>>
>>>>> At 12:46 PM 8/31/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BS"D I only want to point out some things. It is
>>>>>> not the dog's coat which gives the allergic
>>>>>> reaction, it is the dog's saliva. The saliva
>>>>>> consists of allergen which make some people
>>>>>> sick. Actually, every dog owner carry allergen
>>>>>> and therefore the dog is not the only problem
>>>>>> for people with dog allergies. A dog who is well
>>>>>> cared of, bathed and gromed do not cause more
>>>>>> problems for a person with dog allergies then a
>>>>>> dog owner in general does. Many persons with dog
>>>>>> allergies can take medecins but for few people
>>>>>> this do not work, for them it would be a problem
>>>>>> to only meet a dog owner. I do not hope none
>>>>>> take this personally but I only want to clear up
>>>>>> things. I live in a country where the Allergic
>>>>>> lobby has a very strong voice which makes it
>>>>>> hard to live with a guide dog here. We get
>>>>>> refused to enter shops, restaurants and
>>>>>> universities because 'a person can get an
>>>>>> allergic attack'. Okay, therefore this subject
>>>>>> is close to my heart. I understand that it can
>>>>>> be a problem for people with allergies but it is
>>>>>> not my problem, my dog is well taken care of and
>>>>>> she will not be upin  people faces. I really
>>>>>> feel for Joshua and others, it must be difficult
>>>>>> but I wish it would be more respectful
>>>>>> especially in my own country where it sounds
>>>>>> lile my dog would kill people with dog allergies
>>>>>> which is not true. Kind regards, Mlle.
>>>>>> Leye-Shprintse íberg Courriel :
>>>>>> leyeshprintse at ymail.com Journal :
>>>>>> http://leyeshprintse.blogspot.**com<http://leyeshprintse.blogspot.com>Envoyé 
>>>>>> de mon
>>>>>> iPad Mini
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Take care,
>> Ty
>> http://tds-solutions.net
>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>> that dares not reason is a slave.
>>
>>
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that 
dares not reason is a slave.


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