[nabs-l] How can NFB better include peoplewithmultipledisabilities mental illness
Sam Nelson
nelsonsam68 at gmail.com
Wed Apr 2 21:24:23 UTC 2014
Hi Ariel,
I agree. I love the hotline idea! It would be true peer support. Which is
such a big thing in mental illness recovery these days.
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 4:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include
peoplewithmultipledisabilities mental illness
I think the hotline idea is a great one. The human services division could
work on that, but it would be great to have a group or division that is led
by blind people with mental illness.
Arielle
On 4/2/14, Sam Nelson <nelsonsam68 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> I'm not very much into the NFB in a lot of ways but one hundred
> percent agree that there needs to be more connection between support/
> services for the blind and for those that have other disabilities along
with blindness.
> Personally I've seen this disconnect with blindness and mental
> illness. I agree with everything Desiree said about therapists and
> them not understanding how blindness impacts mental illnessor how
> mental illness might affect blindness. I've also seen a lot of
> misunderstanding with blindness profesionals not understanding how
> mental illness might interfere with living on one's own getting a
> standard full time job ETC and so their scope of services don't allow
> for anything outside what they perceive to be normal.
> I do want to give a shout out that I run an e-mail list called
> blind-mentalhealth on yahoo. I've been running it since May and it is
> a very close knit community and we all support each other day to day
> with these struggles, providing encouragement and resources if
> possible and most of all just our friendship.
> Lastly I've heard of a center in NY that has the only psychiatric
> clinic and daytreatment program for the blind. Does anyone know
> anthing about this program? I've tried looking online everywhere for a
> contact person as I'd be very curious to know more about the program
> and how they do things.
>
> Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth
> Taurasi
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 11:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include
> peoplewithmultipledisabilities?
>
> Good ranting, Kaiti. As someone who could fall under the thing
> Desiree described, someone whose parents get guardianship because
> they're sighted and "healthy", I had contemplated suicide because of that
guardianship.
> Because of that, my parents tried to take me off MySpace, but they
> will not take me off Facebook. I am currently working to get a case
> against them because the guardianship is way too broad, and it affects
> lots of my man to woman relationships. Currently, my relationship
> with my friend Blake, a guy from Arizona, is rocky, but yet deep down,
> I wish I could swoop Blake up and take him back here to Denver. But
> alas, the guardianship prevents us from marrying. To say that such
> persons are "nonpersons" or in the case of Orwell's 1984 "unpersons"
> is wrong. The way to say it in Newspeak would be complicated, and if
> such a newspeak word was invented, it would sound harsh.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 22:30:32 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include
> peoplewithmultipledisabilities?
>
> Hello all,
>
> In answer to Carly's question about connections between the blind, (we
> may call them "just blind" for the purposes of this conversation), and
> those with blindness and other disabilities, or other disabilities
> without blindness, I think organizational relationships are the
> starting point to working interpersonally. Much like the NFB is a
> huge group of blind people, and is often used as a catalyst for
> working interpersonally to accomplish tasks, other groups are the
> same. If we want to work interpersonally with the deaf, persay, then
> we need to go where the deaf are and start forming relationships with
> that group. Once repore is established, people from the various
> organizations can work interpersonally. Darian might have phrased it
> better than I did, but it's the same sort of view.
>
> I was admittedly not around for that episode that Desiree described,
> but I'm really sad to hear that it happened. Especially since, as
> Arielle pointed out, there are some pretty out there groups like the
> car one. I mean, it's okay for people to get together and discuss
> cars that we can't even drive (yet at least), so their discussion is
> purely based on mechanical and aesthetic knowledge of the cars rather
> than a personal user experience, but a support group for blind people
> who are seen as a minority for another reason is not okay? To me,
> that just doesn't make sense.
>
> I'm not particularly religious, and probably would label myself as
> unitarian even though I was raised catholic if I had to label myself
> at all, so I realize my personal views on things of that nature are
> more liberal than the views of others. However, conservatives aren't
> always going to be happy, just as liberals aren't, and it is important
> that we compromise. I was not under the impression that the NFB had
> any religious affiliation, and even remember asking someone what
> Invocation was, because I really didn't know the term. Even in this
> light, why is Christianity made such a prevalent part of convention?
> What about those who practice Islam, Judism, or anything else? I
> would hate for a majority faction within the NFB to shun double
> minority members, because after all, we're all minorities in the
> greater world, so to pretend that those who are different from us are
> less valuable or don't deserve the right to organize a group to suit
> their unique set of needs or circumstances doesn't seem right.
> Sorry for the rant.
>
> On 4/1/14, melissa R Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Arielle once again. You are so right! I also hope that will never
> happen again.
> Another way to look at this is, many devisions get started and then
> they just fall by the waist side. Noone will keep it going. IMO the
> devisions are started by people that have to be in the spotlight and
> be the darling of
>
> the Federation and the devision suffers. The same happens with
> chapters and
>
> state devisions. Then everyone is shaking their head and wondering
> what happened and why this person didn't work out. I could give
> examples of backing the wrong person.
> Finally, I always felt badly for those children who were born and
> grew up in
>
> the federation. They have a lot of pressure on them to be the
> darling of the federation. Have a blessed day.
> Best Wishes
> Melissa R. Green and Pj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 5:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include people
> withmultipledisabilities?
>
>
> I too was at the NFB convention when the LGBT group wasn't able to
> announce its meetings. I'm disappointed this happened, especially the
> symbolic exclusion it represented, and hope never to see something
> like that again as long as I am part of the Federation. I completely
> understand the leadership's desire not to have a division for every
special interest.
> However, we need clearer and more evenhanded criteria about what
> should constitute a division. It doesn't make sense to allow a
> division for car enthusiasts with its own annual activities and then
> not even allow an LGBT group to advertise informal meet-ups. We can't
> try to say we don't want LGBT because it's too politically
> controversial and then have religious invocations at all the general
> sessions. Has the general membership ever even been polled about whether
to keep having these religious invocations?
> In other words, unless we want to be in an organization that reflects
> the president's or the board's interests and political views alone, we
> really need to have some transparency about how divisions are formed
> and what kinds of characteristics are meaningful enough to justify
> forming a division. Furthermore, as Darian pointed out, a well-run
> group can probably be just as effective without a lot of the hassle
> associated with keeping up a division. I know at least some of the
> folks in the LGBT group would have been totally happy with just a
> group, not a full division, but even that wasn't supported.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 4/1/14, melissa R Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
> what a good topic. I know that there is a blind rollers list.
> But the
> devision never came into being. I think that the committee of the
> under served is supposed to address these issues. However this is not
> occurring.
>
> I agree that nfb has a primary focus of blindness. Yet, we are a
> diverse population. So I believe that the nfb needs to become more
> diverse. I also
>
> believe that the leadership are going by their assumptions that if
> they have
>
> a devision dedicated to a certain grou that it will not do anything
> to assist blind people. For example, years ago, a group came together
> and wanted to form a devision for blind gay bisexual and transgendered
people.
> I was at the convention when doctor Maurer was reading the
> announcement and
>
> then he ripped it up in the middle of reading it. Many people left
> the federation because they felt that they were not wanted and that
> the leadership assumed that it would be a devision strictly for social
> purposes.
>
> Many people are hopeful that the new president will bring many more
> changes
>
> and lots of diversity to the federation. I am going to wait and see
> what happens.
> Have a blessed day.
> Best Wishes
> Melissa R. Green and Pj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 3:53 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include people with
> multipledisabilities?
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to start a separate thread to address an important issue
> that's come up recently. It's clear that more and more blind folks
> today also have other disabilities. For several reasons, the number of
> blind people with additional disabilities is likely to increase, and
> more than that, the number of blind people with additional
> disabilities who are getting educated and involved in advocacy is
> likely to increase. I do think that, for the most part, the NFB
> centers do a good job of tailoring training to the needs that people
> with other disabilities may have, but I also think that we as an
> organization have far to go in order to truly appreciate the
> contributions of all blind people. I think it's particularly true when
> we think about including people with intellectual disabilities and
> mental illnesses. These kinds of conditions are stigmatized in
> general, but especially since our leadership has tended to be highly
> educated and to stress academic excellence and consistent effort from
> the leadership, I can see how folks who have intellectual
> disabilities, mental illnesses or chronic health conditions can feel
> left out. I've known some blind folks who had trouble holding down
> leadership positions in the NFB due to the ups and downs of mental
> illnesses, for example, but who are still incredibly creative and
> passionate people with a lot of good ideas that are getting lost.
> Further, as several folks have pointed out, people with multiple
> disabilities can experience difficulties related to getting
> employment, education, etc. that the NFB hasn't really been able to help
them with.
> I agree that NFB can't be expert about all disabilities, just
> blindness, but I think there is a definite place for more divisions
> and groups within the NFB that focus on other conditions. There is a
> deaf-blind division, but I have not heard many great things about its
> effectiveness. I have heard about efforts to possibly start a
> blind-rollers division, and it makes sense to me that blind wheelchair
> users might have unique concerns they'd want to discuss with each
> other. But to my knowledge such a division has not been formed.
> I
> would love to see a division for blind people with mental health
> conditions. This is a huge segment of our population, and there are
> probably unique concerns there. I am not sure if such divisions don't
> exist because the national leadership opposes them or if there just
> hasn't been enough interest or momentum to get them going. But I think
> having such divisions could help folks who have additional
> disabilities obtain leadership positions within the organization, and
> also to provide a vehicle for collective action and education about
> issues affecting these groups specifically, even if the NFB as a whole
> should just focus on blindness. I hope that makes sense. I would be
> interested in other suggestions from you about how members with
> multiple disabilities can feel more valued. While there is something
> to be said for going ahead and running for leadership positions in
> order to change things, change also needs to come from the
> organization as a whole if folks with multiple disabilities are going
> to be elected and welcomed in these positions.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 3/31/14, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
> Joe and others,
>
> It is not my position that anything said about the NFB that is
> negative is wrong. Organizations are made up of human beings and we
> are not perfect so our creations are not likely going
>
> to
> be perfect. Still, some of what one
> person may seem as wrong isn't so much a matter of right or wrong as
> perspective and opinion. We embarked a good while back now on an
> expansion that has resulted in the need to raise more funds than we
> used to have to raise. I do not think I am alone among NFB
> supporters in recognizing that this is a risk. When you look at our
> budget and that of the ACB and then compare legislative successes as
> you did, Joe, it is certainly clear that legislative successes are
> not proportional to one's budget. Whether I completely agree with
> legislation ACB passes or not, I recognize that the ACB has made
> contributions. However, I have felt for some time and I feel
> particularly more so now that our problems can't be solved by
> legislation alone. Let's take accessibility, for example. There is
> a lot of emphasis on getting more legislation passed that will force
> software to be accessible, for example. I happen to believe this is
> necessary, but it isn't going to make everything better for us,
> particularly on the job, all by itself.
> If we are going to make any serious gains, we need to understand the
> limits of current technology and explore ways of getting information
> that is new. I am not one who got all excited about being able to
> drive a car, although I certainly hope that blind people can do that
> at some point.
> However, I
> got
> very excited about the fact that as a result of looking at the
> problem, we experimented with a number of ways of getting information
> that had not been explored before. A significant portion of our
> budget went into the KNFB reader. At the time, it was something
> nobody was doing, and it was a moving experience when I held up a KNFB
> reader to the lists of registered people at a national convention
> that were just hanging from a crossbar and have it start to read the
> content. There have probably been over a thousand kids who have
> attended science camps of one kind or another through our efforts.
> We have been able to sponsor other gatherings as well for blind
> lawyers, teachers, and major players in the technology field. We
> couldn't have done any of this in the 80's or 90's, and much of this
> would not have been done even now if we hadn't tried it.
>
> So what's my point, I'm not saying anything new, you know all this.
> My point is that a lot of this is about risks and perspectives. We
> won't know for a long time if some of these efforts will make a
> difference.
> Frankly,
> I am a believer that one learns almost as much from what doesn't work
> as one learns from what does, because if you make a mistake you can
> eliminate or refine that approach. Will some of those thousand kids
> get into math or science because of what we did? Is the OCR in the
> new HIMS product a little better because of what we did with the KNFB
reader?
> Will we see a really good reader on the iPhone? Might we ever see a
> reader that could use artificial intelligence to interpret software
> on a computer screen instead of having
>
> to
> educate every person who writes
> software? Will some of our efforts mean that there might be a way
> for us
>
> to
> control the Google self-driving cars
> because of some of the work we did on our own car? I hope that at
> least some of the answers are yes, but at this point I can't really
> say. What I do know is that the smaller dynamic grass roots
> organization that we were in the 80's couldn't have had any affect on
> some of what I've listed above, nor was it the right time for that.
> But it also means that we change.
> Not only do we change, but we make mistakes as we adjust to change.
> Joe, what you see as a downward spiral, I see as the challenges of
> change. I'm not satisfied to say that it has to be that way,
> though. We can and must learn how to do better, as individuals and as
> an organization.
>
> Joe, I think you are right that getting training at one of our
> centers won't miraculously make life better, and the marketing does
> sometimes imply that. However, you are wrong to draw conclusions
> about such training based upon the marketing. Discussing and
> exploring the uncertainties and challenges of seeking employment as a
> blind person is a big part of what is addressed at BLIND Incorporated
> here in Minnesota and I assume by our other centers. Some of the
> point of such training is to encourage the idea that you have to have
> a set of tools to approach a given situation and not just one tool.
> Still, we have to do more than run people through training.
> This is true of any single aspectof our challenges, though.
> Legislating
> that software must be accessible and that one cannot discriminate
> based upon a disability was and is still needed, but it won't matter
> much if we don't have training. Legislation and even training won't
> matter all that much if we don't get a good basic education.
> Requiring that school districts teach braille won't fix that problem
> if there are no braille instructors in a given area. You can't pick
> any one thing out and say that it can lead to success by itself, and
> you can't see any given issue as completely standing on its own.
>
> I feel that we are in a better position as an organization to impact
> the complex challenges we face with a larger budget than we were.
> However, it is more important than ever that we understand where we
> are going and how our philosophy fits in. The question of what can
> we change to address the challenges of the world and what do we need
> the world to change is more important than ever, and I don't see
> anyone asking questions like that outside of this organization.
> With our strengths and our failings, I think our understanding of
> asking for help and looking for our own solutions is what has set us
> apart in my mind, and while it is risky, I think that branching out
> is a risk worth taking to try to have a wider impact. We need the
> help of all members, though, to handle change.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
>
>
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:57:22 -0600, Jamie Principato wrote:
>
> Arielle,
> That was a very thoughtful and politically sensitive response.
>
> Joe,
> I am pleased to see I am not alone in making these observations
> furring my own relationship with the NFB. while I deeply respect the
> organization's history and truly appreciate the raw potential the
> organization has moving forward, the passion I joined with back in
> high school has turned to cautious cynicism. I don't think this
> perspective is bad, though. I think the NFB desperately needs members
> who can see past the smoke and mirrors of PR, and who are willing to
> discuss issues of blindness and politics in a no-nonsense way that
> isn't always easy to hear. It is a shame though when those of us less
> willing to toe the line and pander to those with political power
> are treated with hostility by some at the national level, and more
> still within our local chapters.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 30, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have not been following the
> Braille Monitor that closely but I can understand what you are saying
> about the increased emphasis on fund-raising. I have also felt like
> the national convention is turning into more of a carnival with all
> the exhibitors and prizes being given away, and much of banquet that
> used to focus on philosophy and NFB spirit is now taken up with prize
> drawings and the like.
> To be fair, NFB was stronger financially when we joined than it is
> now, and I understand that some national programs have been cut due to
> a decrease in revenue from what used to be steady reliable income
sources.
> So
> NFB may be pushing fund-raising more, but the alternative could be a
> loss of programs and resources.
> I have not heard of anyone being blatantly turned away or refused
> membership in an NFB chapter. If that ever happens it is truly
> shameful. I do think that sometimes prospective members choose not to
> join because they perceive hostility from the organization or judgment
> of their lifestyle choices. I think part of that is perception only,
> and part of it is reality. The NFB is stereotyped as a radical
> one-size-fits-all organization, and new members expecting to find that
> could be especially sensitive to cues of hostility. However, there
> probably is some real lack of acceptance among certain segments of the
> organization, which, again, is unfortunate. I will say that I am not
> the most graceful blind person and was relatively unskilled when I
> first joined, and I still felt completely accepted. But I know not all
> of us are so lucky. I would encourage prospective members who have a
> negative experience to try again in a different chapter or division
> and perhaps they will find acceptance there.
> But at the same time, this is something we need to be sensitive to in
> the organization.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 3/30/14, Michael Capelle <michael.capelle at frontier.com>
> wrote:
> Hello all.
> This is why I am not apart of any "blind movement." I live my own
> life, live my own philosophy, ETC. I do not believe in a one size
> fits all mentality, which is unfurtunately what the NFB does.
> Thanks.
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:51 AM
> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Success and Why I Left the NFB
>
> Joe, I agree with you. I had to attend both college, and Seminary
> without the NFB's help, although it would have been nice to have a
mentoor.
> RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:25 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Success and Why I Left the NFB
>
>
> 2006 was the last year I attended a national convention. While there
> I was caught up in the ra ra of the movement and felt glad to be in
> the company
>
> of
> so many people who could relate to the challenges that awaited me as
> a recent college graduate. I left convention, finished up my summer as
> a counselor in Iowa, and set off for DC to begin my business with the
> real world. I would never take away someone's enthusiasm from
> attending a national convention or Washington Seminar or one of the
> weekend leadership seminars in Baltimore. They are very well-suited
> to boost a person's spirit, but I believe too many people fall
> through the cracks when faced with reality outside of those infrequent
gatherings.
>
> To be fair, the organization is no different from any other
> nonprofit business. It needs money to sustain itself, and in turn it
> needs more members to help raise the money. Still, I found it rather
> disappointing that so much of the board meeting I tuned into listen
> to last summer was dominated by calls to raise money for this fund or that
effort.
> I
> found
> it
> even sadder that a recent issue of the Braille Monitor, our monthly
> dose of inspiration, featured several articles just to the focus of
> generating more ways to drum up more financial support, but perhaps
> the most frustrating byproduct of this new NFB are the e-mails from
> so-called friends from whom
>
> I
> have not heard in years but boldly ask me to contribute to their NFB
> fundraising campaigns.
>
> In short, at some point the NFB embraced enterprise and forgot about
> the movement. Between 2006 and 2012 I went on to help lead development
> efforts for other nonprofits outside of the blindness field, also
> national in scope.
> They too made fundraising a priority, but it never felt like the
> top, or the only, priority. It gets tiresome when we focus on
> recruiting new blood and raising new money and forget about
> strengthening the members and resources we've already had.
>
> Nowadays I have the privilege of knowing some excellent blind
> professionals.
> I think they would do well in the NFB. They are smarter than I ever
> will be and have accomplished more than I may ever achieve, but they
> shun the organization because they were turned away or because they
> were never welcomed in the first place. It's something I should have
> kept in mind when I had my brief taste of leadership in the
> organization. I had too much of
>
> a
> mouth on me to ever be anyone's golden child, but I was reliable
> enough to get the job done. But, getting the job done should have
> really meant attracting and pulling in these men and women who could
> have made the NFB lots better, listening to new ideas, and most
> important, remaining true to the cause and not some
> multi-million-dollar institute we find ourselves incapable of
> sustaining.
>
> So, what does any of this have to do with the original post? I don't
> want
>
> it
> to ever be said I was a hypocrite. The leadership may as well know
> what I think of them, but more importantly, to the college kids on the
> verge of spreading their own wings, I want you to know the NFB banner
> will only guide your way so far. Take what's great about the
> organization and leave the political drama and marketing ploys
> behind. In the end it will be your own wits and talents that will
> earn your pay check. The NFB will never give you anything new. The
> philosophy merely helps you uncover what you always had
>
> to
> be successful. Anything could happen with the new NFB president, and
> I will be the first to retract my words if he is brave enough to
> reverse this downward spiral. You see, we no longer live in a world
> where the NFB is necessary for collective momentum. Technology has seen
to that.
> Whether
> or
> not the movement sticks around largely depends on how badly we want
> it to exist.
>
> Is the ACB doing it any better? That's debatable, but you know what
> I've found from the people I've met on that side of the house? They
> seem happier, and that's something we can't seem to figure out in our
camp.
> The
> few
> victories they celebrate they do with even less money. Let that be a
> lesson in financial management to you.
>
> I don't know what the hell I'm doing back here. I told myself I
> would never become one of those bitter former NFB members. My only
> goal was to provide different perspectives to the new generation of
> leaders coming up through the ranks. After all, if you never taste
> the real world, you have no business leading. That's like the teacher
> who teaches because they couldn't cut it, and believe it or not, I
> want to see more and more of you excel at whatever it is you want to
> do. The more of you there are, the greater our strength.
>
> Moving forward I reckon I'll keep my opinions to myself here lest I
> be the rotten apple that spoils the bunch, but in some lame attempt
> to answer the original question, my answer would be this:
>
> The characteristics of a successful blind person are humility to
> consume what they need to be successful, fortitude to turn away what
> will not, and wisdom to recognize the difference.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>
> Visit my blog:
> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>
>
>
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