[nabs-l] How can NFB better include peoplewithmultipledisabilities mental illness
Arielle Silverman
arielle71 at gmail.com
Wed Apr 2 21:06:52 UTC 2014
I think the hotline idea is a great one. The human services division
could work on that, but it would be great to have a group or division
that is led by blind people with mental illness.
Arielle
On 4/2/14, Sam Nelson <nelsonsam68 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> I'm not very much into the NFB in a lot of ways but one hundred percent
> agree that there needs to be more connection between support/ services for
> the blind and for those that have other disabilities along with blindness.
> Personally I've seen this disconnect with blindness and mental illness. I
> agree with everything Desiree said about therapists and them not
> understanding how blindness impacts mental illnessor how mental illness
> might affect blindness. I've also seen a lot of misunderstanding with
> blindness profesionals not understanding how mental illness might interfere
> with living on one's own getting a standard full time job ETC and so their
> scope of services don't allow for anything outside what they perceive to be
> normal.
> I do want to give a shout out that I run an e-mail list called
> blind-mentalhealth on yahoo. I've been running it since May and it is a
> very
> close knit community and we all support each other day to day with these
> struggles, providing encouragement and resources if possible and most of
> all
> just our friendship.
> Lastly I've heard of a center in NY that has the only psychiatric clinic
> and daytreatment program for the blind. Does anyone know anthing about
> this program? I've tried looking online everywhere for a contact person as
> I'd be very curious to know more about the program and how they do
> things.
>
> Sam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 11:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include
> peoplewithmultipledisabilities?
>
> Good ranting, Kaiti. As someone who could fall under the thing Desiree
> described, someone whose parents get guardianship because they're sighted
> and "healthy", I had contemplated suicide because of that guardianship.
> Because of that, my parents tried to take me off MySpace, but they will not
> take me off Facebook. I am currently working to get a case against them
> because the guardianship is way too broad, and it affects lots of my man to
> woman relationships. Currently, my relationship with my friend Blake, a
> guy
> from Arizona, is rocky, but yet deep down, I wish I could swoop Blake up
> and
> take him back here to Denver. But alas, the guardianship prevents us from
> marrying. To say that such persons are "nonpersons" or in the case of
> Orwell's 1984 "unpersons" is wrong. The way to say it in Newspeak would be
> complicated, and if such a newspeak word was invented, it would sound
> harsh.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 22:30:32 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include
> peoplewithmultipledisabilities?
>
> Hello all,
>
> In answer to Carly's question about connections between the blind, (we may
> call them "just blind" for the purposes of this conversation), and those
> with blindness and other disabilities, or other disabilities without
> blindness, I think organizational relationships are the starting point to
> working interpersonally. Much like the NFB is a huge group of blind
> people,
> and is often used as a catalyst for working interpersonally to accomplish
> tasks, other groups are the same. If we want to work interpersonally with
> the deaf, persay, then we need to go where the deaf are and start forming
> relationships with that group. Once repore is established, people from the
> various organizations can work interpersonally. Darian might have phrased
> it better than I did, but it's the same sort of view.
>
> I was admittedly not around for that episode that Desiree described, but
> I'm
> really sad to hear that it happened. Especially since, as Arielle pointed
> out, there are some pretty out there groups like the car one. I mean, it's
> okay for people to get together and discuss cars that we can't even drive
> (yet at least), so their discussion is purely based on mechanical and
> aesthetic knowledge of the cars rather than a personal user experience, but
> a support group for blind people who are seen as a minority for another
> reason is not okay? To me, that just doesn't make sense.
>
> I'm not particularly religious, and probably would label myself as
> unitarian
> even though I was raised catholic if I had to label myself at all, so I
> realize my personal views on things of that nature are more liberal than
> the
> views of others. However, conservatives aren't always going to be happy,
> just as liberals aren't, and it is important that we compromise. I was not
> under the impression that the NFB had any religious affiliation, and even
> remember asking someone what Invocation was, because I really didn't know
> the term. Even in this light, why is Christianity made such a prevalent
> part of convention?
> What about those who practice Islam, Judism, or anything else? I would
> hate
> for a majority faction within the NFB to shun double minority members,
> because after all, we're all minorities in the greater world, so to pretend
> that those who are different from us are less valuable or don't deserve the
> right to organize a group to suit their unique set of needs or
> circumstances
> doesn't seem right.
> Sorry for the rant.
>
> On 4/1/14, melissa R Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Arielle once again. You are so right! I also hope that will never happen
> again.
> Another way to look at this is, many devisions get started and then they
> just fall by the waist side. Noone will keep it going. IMO the devisions
> are started by people that have to be in the spotlight and be the darling
> of
>
> the Federation and the devision suffers. The same happens with chapters
> and
>
> state devisions. Then everyone is shaking their head and wondering what
> happened and why this person didn't work out. I could give examples of
> backing the wrong person.
> Finally, I always felt badly for those children who were born and grew up
> in
>
> the federation. They have a lot of pressure on them to be the darling of
> the federation. Have a blessed day.
> Best Wishes
> Melissa R. Green and Pj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 5:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include people
> withmultipledisabilities?
>
>
> I too was at the NFB convention when the LGBT group wasn't able to
> announce its meetings. I'm disappointed this happened, especially the
> symbolic exclusion it represented, and hope never to see something like
> that again as long as I am part of the Federation. I completely understand
> the leadership's desire not to have a division for every special interest.
> However, we need clearer and more evenhanded criteria about what should
> constitute a division. It doesn't make sense to allow a division for car
> enthusiasts with its own annual activities and then not even allow an LGBT
> group to advertise informal meet-ups. We can't try to say we don't want
> LGBT because it's too politically controversial and then have religious
> invocations at all the general sessions. Has the general membership ever
> even been polled about whether to keep having these religious invocations?
> In other words, unless we want to be in an organization that reflects the
> president's or the board's interests and political views alone, we really
> need to have some transparency about how divisions are formed and what
> kinds of characteristics are meaningful enough to justify forming a
> division. Furthermore, as Darian pointed out, a well-run group can
> probably
> be just as effective without a lot of the hassle associated with keeping
> up
> a division. I know at least some of the folks in the LGBT group would have
> been totally happy with just a group, not a full division, but even that
> wasn't supported.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 4/1/14, melissa R Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
> what a good topic. I know that there is a blind rollers list.
> But the
> devision never came into being. I think that the committee of the under
> served is supposed to address these issues. However this is not
> occurring.
>
> I agree that nfb has a primary focus of blindness. Yet, we are a diverse
> population. So I believe that the nfb needs to become more diverse. I
> also
>
> believe that the leadership are going by their assumptions that if they
> have
>
> a devision dedicated to a certain grou that it will not do anything to
> assist blind people. For example, years ago, a group came together and
> wanted to form a devision for blind gay bisexual and transgendered people.
> I was at the convention when doctor Maurer was reading the announcement
> and
>
> then he ripped it up in the middle of reading it. Many people left the
> federation because they felt that they were not wanted and that the
> leadership assumed that it would be a devision strictly for social
> purposes.
>
> Many people are hopeful that the new president will bring many more
> changes
>
> and lots of diversity to the federation. I am going to wait and see what
> happens.
> Have a blessed day.
> Best Wishes
> Melissa R. Green and Pj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 3:53 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] How can NFB better include people with
> multipledisabilities?
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to start a separate thread to address an important issue that's
> come up recently. It's clear that more and more blind folks today also
> have
> other disabilities. For several reasons, the number of blind people with
> additional disabilities is likely to increase, and more than that, the
> number of blind people with additional disabilities who are getting
> educated and involved in advocacy is likely to increase. I do think that,
> for the most part, the NFB centers do a good job of tailoring training to
> the needs that people with other disabilities may have, but I also think
> that we as an organization have far to go in order to truly appreciate the
> contributions of all blind people. I think it's particularly true when we
> think about including people with intellectual disabilities and mental
> illnesses. These kinds of conditions are stigmatized in general, but
> especially since our leadership has tended to be highly educated and to
> stress academic excellence and consistent effort from the leadership, I
> can
> see how folks who have intellectual disabilities, mental illnesses or
> chronic health conditions can feel left out. I've known some blind folks
> who had trouble holding down leadership positions in the NFB due to the
> ups
> and downs of mental illnesses, for example, but who are still incredibly
> creative and passionate people with a lot of good ideas that are getting
> lost.
> Further, as several folks have pointed out, people with multiple
> disabilities can experience difficulties related to getting employment,
> education, etc. that the NFB hasn't really been able to help them with.
> I agree that NFB can't be expert about all disabilities, just blindness,
> but I think there is a definite place for more divisions and groups within
> the NFB that focus on other conditions. There is a deaf-blind division,
> but
> I have not heard many great things about its effectiveness. I have heard
> about efforts to possibly start a blind-rollers division, and it makes
> sense to me that blind wheelchair users might have unique concerns they'd
> want to discuss with each other. But to my knowledge such a division has
> not been formed.
> I
> would love to see a division for blind people with mental health
> conditions. This is a huge segment of our population, and there are
> probably unique concerns there. I am not sure if such divisions don't
> exist
> because the national leadership opposes them or if there just hasn't been
> enough interest or momentum to get them going. But I think having such
> divisions could help folks who have additional disabilities obtain
> leadership positions within the organization, and also to provide a
> vehicle
> for collective action and education about issues affecting these groups
> specifically, even if the NFB as a whole should just focus on blindness. I
> hope that makes sense. I would be interested in other suggestions from you
> about how members with multiple disabilities can feel more valued. While
> there is something to be said for going ahead and running for leadership
> positions in order to change things, change also needs to come from the
> organization as a whole if folks with multiple disabilities are going to
> be
> elected and welcomed in these positions.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 3/31/14, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
> Joe and others,
>
> It is not my position that anything said about the NFB that is negative
> is
> wrong. Organizations are made up of human beings and we are not perfect
> so
> our creations are not likely going
>
> to
> be perfect. Still, some of what one
> person may seem as wrong isn't so much a matter of right or wrong as
> perspective and opinion. We embarked a good while back now on an
> expansion
> that has resulted in the need to raise more funds than we used to have to
> raise. I do not think I am alone among NFB supporters in recognizing that
> this is a risk. When you look at our budget and that of the ACB and
> then
> compare legislative successes as you did, Joe, it is certainly clear that
> legislative successes are not proportional to one's budget. Whether I
> completely agree with legislation ACB passes or not, I recognize that the
> ACB has made contributions. However, I have felt for some time and I feel
> particularly more so now that our problems can't be solved by legislation
> alone. Let's take accessibility, for example. There is a lot of
> emphasis
> on getting more legislation passed that will force software to be
> accessible, for example. I happen to believe this is necessary, but it
> isn't going to make everything better for us, particularly on the job, all
> by itself.
> If we are going to make any serious gains, we need to understand the
> limits of current technology and explore ways of getting information that
> is new. I am not one who got all excited about being able to drive a
> car,
> although I certainly hope that blind people can do that at some point.
> However, I
> got
> very excited about the fact that as a
> result of looking at the problem, we experimented with a number of ways
> of
> getting information that had not been explored before. A significant
> portion of our budget went into the KNFB reader. At the time, it was
> something nobody was doing, and it was a moving experience when I held up
> a
> KNFB reader to the lists of registered people at a national convention
> that were just hanging from a crossbar and have it start to read the
> content. There have probably been over a thousand kids who have attended
> science camps of one kind or another through our efforts. We have been
> able to sponsor other gatherings as well for blind lawyers, teachers, and
> major players in the technology field. We couldn't have done any of this
> in the 80's or 90's, and much of this would not have been done even now
> if we hadn't tried it.
>
> So what's my point, I'm not saying anything new, you know all this. My
> point is that a lot of this is about risks and perspectives. We won't
> know
> for a long time if some of these efforts will make a difference.
> Frankly,
> I am a believer that one learns almost as much from what doesn't work as
> one learns from what does, because if you make a mistake you can
> eliminate or refine that approach. Will some of those thousand kids get
> into math or science because of what we did? Is the OCR in the new HIMS
> product a little better because of what we did with the KNFB reader?
> Will we see a really good reader on the iPhone? Might we ever see a
> reader that could use artificial intelligence to interpret software on a
> computer screen instead of having
>
> to
> educate every person who writes
> software? Will some of our efforts mean that there might be a way for us
>
> to
> control the Google self-driving cars
> because of some of the work we did on our own car? I hope that at least
> some of the answers are yes, but at this point I can't really say. What I
> do know is that the smaller dynamic grass roots organization that we were
> in the 80's couldn't have had any affect on some of what I've listed
> above,
> nor was it the right time for that. But it also means that we change.
> Not only do we change, but we make mistakes as we adjust to change. Joe,
> what you see as a downward spiral, I see as the challenges of change. I'm
> not satisfied to say that it has to be that way, though. We can and
> must
> learn how to do better, as individuals and as an organization.
>
> Joe, I think you are right that getting training at one of our centers
> won't miraculously make life better, and the marketing does sometimes
> imply that. However, you are wrong to draw conclusions about such
> training
> based upon the marketing. Discussing and exploring the uncertainties and
> challenges of seeking employment as a blind person is a big part of what
> is
> addressed at BLIND Incorporated here in Minnesota and I assume by our
> other
> centers. Some of the point of such training is to encourage the idea that
> you have to have a set of tools to approach a given situation and not just
> one tool. Still, we have to do more than run people through training.
> This is true of any single aspectof our challenges, though.
> Legislating
> that software must be accessible and that one cannot discriminate based
> upon a disability was and is still needed, but it won't matter much if we
> don't have training. Legislation and even training won't matter all that
> much if we don't get a good basic education.
> Requiring that school districts teach braille won't fix that problem if
> there are no braille instructors in a given area. You can't pick any one
> thing out and say that it can lead to success by itself, and you can't
> see
> any given issue as completely standing on its own.
>
> I feel that we are in a better position as an organization to impact the
> complex challenges we face with a larger budget than we were. However, it
> is more important than ever that we understand where we are going and how
> our philosophy fits in. The question of what can we change to address the
> challenges of the world and what do we need the world to change is more
> important than ever, and I don't see anyone asking questions like that
> outside of this organization. With our strengths and our failings, I
> think
> our understanding of asking for help and looking for our own solutions is
> what has set us apart in my mind, and while it is risky, I think that
> branching out is a risk worth taking to try to have a wider impact. We
> need the help of all members, though, to handle change.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
>
>
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 12:57:22 -0600, Jamie Principato wrote:
>
> Arielle,
> That was a very thoughtful and politically sensitive response.
>
> Joe,
> I am pleased to see I am not alone in making these observations furring my
> own relationship with the NFB. while I deeply respect the organization's
> history and truly appreciate the raw potential the organization has moving
> forward, the passion I joined with back in high school has turned to
> cautious cynicism. I don't think this perspective is bad, though. I think
> the NFB desperately needs members who can see past the smoke and mirrors
> of PR, and who are willing to discuss issues of blindness and politics in
> a
> no-nonsense way that isn't always easy to hear. It is a shame though when
> those of us less willing to toe the line and pander to those with
> political power are treated with hostility by some at the national level,
> and more still within our local chapters.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 30, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have not been following the
> Braille
> Monitor that closely but I can understand what you are saying about the
> increased emphasis on fund-raising. I have also felt like the national
> convention is turning into more of a carnival with all the exhibitors and
> prizes being given away, and much of banquet that used to focus on
> philosophy and NFB spirit is now taken up with prize drawings and the
> like.
> To be fair, NFB was stronger financially when we joined than it is now,
> and I understand that some national programs have been cut due to a
> decrease in revenue from what used to be steady reliable income sources.
> So
> NFB may be pushing fund-raising more, but the alternative could be a loss
> of programs and resources.
> I have not heard of anyone being blatantly turned away or refused
> membership in an NFB chapter. If that ever happens it is truly shameful. I
> do think that sometimes prospective members choose not to join because
> they
> perceive hostility from the organization or judgment of their lifestyle
> choices. I think part of that is perception only, and part of it is
> reality. The NFB is stereotyped as a radical one-size-fits-all
> organization, and new members expecting to find that could be especially
> sensitive to cues of hostility. However, there probably is some real lack
> of acceptance among certain segments of the organization, which, again, is
> unfortunate. I will say that I am not the most graceful blind person and
> was relatively unskilled when I first joined, and I still felt completely
> accepted. But I know not all of us are so lucky. I would encourage
> prospective members who have a negative experience to try again in a
> different chapter or division and perhaps they will find acceptance there.
> But at the same time, this is something we need to be sensitive to in the
> organization.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 3/30/14, Michael Capelle <michael.capelle at frontier.com>
> wrote:
> Hello all.
> This is why I am not apart of any "blind movement." I live my own life,
> live my own philosophy, ETC. I do not believe in a one size fits all
> mentality, which is unfurtunately what the NFB does.
> Thanks.
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:51 AM
> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Success and Why I Left the NFB
>
> Joe, I agree with you. I had to attend both college, and Seminary without
> the NFB's help, although it would have been nice to have a mentoor.
> RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe" <jsoro620 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:25 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Success and Why I Left the NFB
>
>
> 2006 was the last year I attended a national convention. While there I
> was caught up in the ra ra of the movement and felt glad to be in the
> company
>
> of
> so many people who could relate to the challenges that awaited me as a
> recent college graduate. I left convention, finished up my summer as a
> counselor in Iowa, and set off for DC to begin my business with the real
> world. I would never take away someone's enthusiasm from attending a
> national convention or Washington Seminar or one of the weekend leadership
> seminars in Baltimore. They are very well-suited to boost a person's
> spirit, but I believe too many people fall through the cracks when faced
> with reality outside of those infrequent gatherings.
>
> To be fair, the organization is no different from any other nonprofit
> business. It needs money to sustain itself, and in turn it needs more
> members to help raise the money. Still, I found it rather disappointing
> that so much of the board meeting I tuned into listen to last summer was
> dominated by calls to raise money for this fund or that effort.
> I
> found
> it
> even sadder that a recent issue of the Braille Monitor, our monthly dose
> of inspiration, featured several articles just to the focus of generating
> more ways to drum up more financial support, but perhaps the most
> frustrating byproduct of this new NFB are the e-mails from so-called
> friends from whom
>
> I
> have not heard in years but boldly ask me to contribute to their NFB
> fundraising campaigns.
>
> In short, at some point the NFB embraced enterprise and forgot about the
> movement. Between 2006 and 2012 I went on to help lead development efforts
> for other nonprofits outside of the blindness field, also national in
> scope.
> They too made fundraising a priority, but it never felt like the top, or
> the only, priority. It gets tiresome when we focus on recruiting new
> blood
> and raising new money and forget about strengthening the members and
> resources we've already had.
>
> Nowadays I have the privilege of knowing some excellent blind
> professionals.
> I think they would do well in the NFB. They are smarter than I ever will
> be and have accomplished more than I may ever achieve, but they shun the
> organization because they were turned away or because they were never
> welcomed in the first place. It's something I should have kept in mind
> when I had my brief taste of leadership in the organization. I had too
> much of
>
> a
> mouth on me to ever be anyone's golden child, but I was reliable enough
> to get the job done. But, getting the job done should have really meant
> attracting and pulling in these men and women who could have made the NFB
> lots better, listening to new ideas, and most important, remaining true
> to
> the cause and not some multi-million-dollar institute we find ourselves
> incapable of sustaining.
>
> So, what does any of this have to do with the original post? I don't want
>
> it
> to ever be said I was a hypocrite. The leadership may as well know what
> I
> think of them, but more importantly, to the college kids on the verge of
> spreading their own wings, I want you to know the NFB banner will only
> guide your way so far. Take what's great about the organization and leave
> the political drama and marketing ploys behind. In the end it will be
> your
> own wits and talents that will earn your pay check. The NFB will never
> give you anything new. The philosophy merely helps you uncover what you
> always had
>
> to
> be successful. Anything could happen with the new NFB president, and I
> will be the first to retract my words if he is brave enough to reverse
> this downward spiral. You see, we no longer live in a world where the NFB
> is necessary for collective momentum. Technology has seen to that.
> Whether
> or
> not the movement sticks around largely depends on how badly we want it
> to
> exist.
>
> Is the ACB doing it any better? That's debatable, but you know what I've
> found from the people I've met on that side of the house? They seem
> happier, and that's something we can't seem to figure out in our camp.
> The
> few
> victories they celebrate they do with even less money. Let that be a
> lesson in financial management to you.
>
> I don't know what the hell I'm doing back here. I told myself I would
> never become one of those bitter former NFB members. My only goal was to
> provide different perspectives to the new generation of leaders coming up
> through the ranks. After all, if you never taste the real world, you have
> no business leading. That's like the teacher who teaches because they
> couldn't cut it, and believe it or not, I want to see more and more of you
> excel at whatever it is you want to do. The more of you there are, the
> greater our strength.
>
> Moving forward I reckon I'll keep my opinions to myself here lest I be
> the rotten apple that spoils the bunch, but in some lame attempt to
> answer
> the original question, my answer would be this:
>
> The characteristics of a successful blind person are humility to consume
> what they need to be successful, fortitude to turn away what will not,
> and
> wisdom to recognize the difference.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>
> Visit my blog:
> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>
>
>
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