[nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

Mon Jan 27 04:29:37 UTC 2014

Hi Elizabeth,

Very good discussion!

I have encountered this before, and I usually come back with a quip
like "I can see just enough to get me in trouble."  Or "I can't see
anything too small or too far away."

Both of these things are true, but they are also kind of general.
Sometimes they make people ask more questions, but most of the time,
the sighted person is confused and lets me go.

I, like Arielle, don't usually mind sharing stuff about my life, my
blindness, my dog(usually the topic under discussion), but I won't
always share.  I am often late for class, and no one is going to stop
me when I'm running late.  :)

When I have a more extensive conversation with a classmate or a
teacher, I like to make them think.  One of my favorite things to tell
them is that one of my best friends is blind and is a visual learner.
They are often amazed that a blind person can be a visual learner.  It
helps them to understand the importance of Braille, since they usually
believe that we have a perfect auditory memory or something.  When I
was working my dog, I used to always explain to them that the dog does
not take care of me, tell me when to cross the street, or find my
campus from all the way across the city.  When I am with one of my
blind friends, she and I like to tease each other about being blind.
This seriously offends some sighted people...  But once they get over
it, maybe they recognize that we are comfortable with ourselves and
our blindness.

I'm not gonna lie; sometimes it's fun to mess with sighted people and
educate them.  Maybe it's the student in me, but I love to make people
think.

On 1/26/14, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi, Arielle,
>
>          You could look at whether you need take
> people's questions too personally for, it is
> posssible  that, a best way to break apart the
> isolation in which most of us are languishing is
> by exposure, exposure, exposure and. a fair
> amount of laughter. Not enough of us share
> laughter with people, showing that we can and do
> often laugh at ourselves. People, we have seen
> over and over again, are gonna fear what they
> don't know, what they can't relate too. Yet, if
> you commiit to show all, talk about all, through
> our actions that we are like sighted people,
> observers might be more inclined to accept us,
> or, at least treat us like normal eating, shitting, sometimes wanting
> people.
> for today, Car
> 408-209-3239
>
> approach. It is correct that
>>people will often judge all blind people based  on their encounter
>>with one of us. However, worrying too much about the example you are
>>setting for all blind people can be unhealthy and counter-productive.
>>While I try to set a good example whenever I can, I also recognize
>>that I can't always control the example I am setting nor can I control
>>how others interpret it or what conclusions they draw from my
>>behavior. For example, I might insist on walking around the airport
>>independently, and some people may interpret that positively whereas
>>others may think I am trying too hard to prove my independence. As
>>human beings we often find ourselves with limited patience and
>>tolerance to respond to every question or comment that is thrown at
>>us. I try to set the best example possible while also trying not to
>>worry too much about how I am acting.
>>
>>Arielle
>>
>>On 12/8/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Wow I am totally blind, and have therefore never had to deal with this
>> > particular situation, I feel very similarly conflicted about my
>> > obligation
>> > to educate the public. On the one hand, as Katie said, it just comes
>> > with
>> > the territory of being blind/legally blind/whatever. I recognize that,
>> > no
>> > matter what, I am an ambassador for the whole blind community and
>> > someways
>> > because, As ridiculous as this is, many people will base their entire
>> > conception of blind people in general around me because I am the only
>> > blind
>> > person they have ever met, and of course this will completely shake the
>> > way
>> > these people treat other blind people in the future. Also, again going
>> > back
>> > to Katie, A lot of people just don't know any better at first but,
>> > given
>> > patients and a little bit of time, they start to understand that
>> > blindness
>> > isn't really even close to the life  defining disaster they originally
>> > assumed it was. However, I also have the right to live my life as I
>> > damn
>> > well see fit, and that means I don't always have the time or energy or
>> > desire to answer the same questions over and over again at nausium for
>> > people who will probably never get over there preconceived notions of
>> > my
>> > inferiority anyhow. There comes a point where you just want to live
>> > your
>> > life without being constantly interrupted and
>> distracted from doing what you
>> > are trying to do… and of course The point at which this happens it's up
>> > to
>> > each individual person. It seems to be a very
>> fine balancing act and I'll be
>> > totally honest and say I haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>> >> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> Another thing I thought of when I read Suzanne's last response... I
>> >> mentioned this in my first email, but I think it deserves a little
>> >> more emphasis.
>> >>
>> >> The bottom line is that as blind people we are a minority.  I think
>> >> sometimes, especially if you're a person who hangs around with other
>> >> blind people and/or people who know you or another blind person a lot
>> >> then we forget how clueless others can be.  My roommates wouldn't
>> >> think of asking another blind person how they cook, clean, use a cane,
>> >> or read braille because they see me do it on a daily basis.  Our
>> >> parents and friends would most likely not either.  But for those who
>> >> do not know a single person who is blind they just don't know, and
>> >> sometimes in order to let them know we have to educate a little bit.
>> >>
>> >> Example: One of my roommates and I met because we took an intro to
>> >> philosophy class in our first semester.  Our professor was a total
>> >> jerk, and liked to say rude things about people in the class... the
>> >> Chinese students, a Muslum student, a random girl who didn't appear to
>> >> have a minority issue for him to pick on at all, and me.  What he
>> >> liked to do, it seemed, was ask questions to students and belittle
>> >> them, like asking the Islamic student if he had a similar concept of
>> >> God to Christians.  When the student said his religion was really
>> >> parallel to Christianity, and that his book was a lot like the bible
>> >> with some extra material and different phrasing, the professor laughed
>> >> in his face.  He asked me a stupid question about a mirror and did the
>> >> same kind of thing one day, and my then roommate stopped me after
>> >> class to tell me I should report the professor, since he was being
>> >> totally out of line.  We then went on to study together, and found we
>> >> had some other classes together and lived on the same floor of our
>> >> dorm.  Early on she did ask some questions about things like JAWS,
>> >> braille, etc, and had I not been willing to answer her questions and
>> >> educate her a little, I would have most likely pushed her away and not
>> >> gained one of my closest friends.  She was still a stranger to me in
>> >> the beginning, but sometimes you have to be open to answering
>> >> questions.
>> >>
>> >> My roommates have both asked questions, and both have come to the
>> >> understanding that I am just as capable in school and in life as they
>> >> are.  The only real difference is I do some things differently, and
>> >> now that they understand that it is no big deal.  Other minority
>> >> groups have the same issue; deaf people educate about sign language
>> >> and deaf culture, wheelchair users have to go to bat for ramps and
>> >> elivators to make buildings accessible, etc.  It's just part of the
>> >> territory, but things are a lot harder if we don't educate a
>> >> little---harder than they really need to be.  If someone is a creep or
>> >> is too abrasive then the choice to educate is up to you, but when the
>> >> question is harmless and the person is just curious a little
>> >> explanation isn't that hard to give.
>> >>
>> >>> On 12/8/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >>> Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just because of
>> >>> our
>> >>> answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so obviously I get
>> >>> these
>> >>> questions. My experience has been far worse then questions. I spent
>> >>> my
>> >>> entire childhood being teased or rude comments about my vision so
>> >>> frankly
>> >>> I
>> >>> would rather have someone ask me a question then have a bus driver
>> >>> kick
>> >>> me
>> >>> off the bus because he did not believe I was blind and thought my
>> >>> guide
>> >>> dog
>> >>> was fake because I help by hand up to my face to see my coins before
>> >>> I
>> >>> paid. Or all the shit I heard when I used a cane "You're not blind"
>> >>>
>> >>> No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.
>> >>>
>> >>> You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they were
>> >>> educated
>> >>> by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.
>> >>>
>> >>> When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or "Can/t
>> >>> you
>> >>> afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no problem saying I am
>> >>> legally
>> >>> blind and it cannot be corrected with glasses and maybe they won't be
>> >>> such
>> >>> an ass to the next person they see with a book right up against their
>> >>> face.
>> >>> I get the drug one because I squint.
>> >>>
>> >>> The more that people understand about the different levels of
>> >>> blindness
>> >>> and
>> >>> how we can all do things with our accommodations, the more likely
>> >>> they
>> >>> will
>> >>> be to hire us when we apply for jobs. So yes, unfortunately it falls
>> >>> upon
>> >>> us to educate people.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>> >>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hello Steve and all,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my
>> >>>> questions
>> >>>> more to this email list.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would
>> >>>> rather
>> >>>> be able to go about living my life without the constant
>> >>>> interruptions
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to
>> >>>> some
>> >>>> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the
>> >>>> street
>> >>>> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a
>> >>>> blind
>> >>>> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I
>> >>>> am
>> >>>> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of
>> >>>> eyesight to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one
>> >>>> has,
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> more likely a person is able to perform the task. And I know this
>> >>>> one
>> >>>> was
>> >>>> not mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers
>> >>>> grabbing
>> >>>> my
>> >>>> arm thinking I am in need of assistance when I am just going about
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> normal business of my life. I just never really know what to say to
>> >>>> these
>> >>>> people in some two second interaction with them to be able to fully
>> >>>> answer
>> >>>> their curiosity, or to get them to leave me alone.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to
>> >>>> how I
>> >>>> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life.
>> >>>> However,
>> >>>> based on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as
>> >>>> though
>> >>>> most people on this list have not encountered these kinds of
>> >>>> questions
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> their lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being
>> >>>> legally
>> >>>> blind and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to
>> >>>> how I
>> >>>> could go about dealing with this situation better so I do not look
>> >>>> like
>> >>>> some stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> know
>> >>>> what to say. I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> pose my question.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Elizabeth
>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Elizabeth,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy
>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is
>> >>>>> completely
>> >>>>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe
>> >>>>> or
>> >>>>> even know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more
>> >>>>> trouble
>> >>>>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who
>> >>>>> are
>> >>>>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the
>> >>>>> better
>> >>>>> off
>> >>>>> one is.  What
>> >>>>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low
>> >>>>> vision
>> >>>>> than it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> struggle with the
>> >>>>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other
>> >>>>> ways.
>> >>>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so
>> >>>>> when
>> >>>>> they
>> >>>>> meet
>> >>>>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a
>> >>>>> little
>> >>>>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is
>> >>>>> something
>> >>>>> we
>> >>>>> try to
>> >>>>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can
>> >>>>> determine.
>> >>>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> some
>> >>>>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to
>> >>>>> represent
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public
>> >>>>> determines
>> >>>>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>> >>>>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best regards,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Steve Jacobson\
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>> >>>>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hello All,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>> >>>>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer
>> >>>>>>> myself?
>> >>>>>>> Why
>> >>>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort
>> >>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>> answer
>> >>>>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do
>> >>>>>>> not
>> >>>>>>> know
>> >>>>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>> figure
>> >>>>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> NFB
>> >>>>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted
>> >>>>>>> people,
>> >>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much
>> >>>>>>> anything
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what
>> >>>>>>> difference
>> >>>>>>> does
>> >>>>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they
>> >>>>>>> are
>> >>>>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a
>> >>>>>>> person
>> >>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are
>> >>>>>>> trying
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they
>> >>>>>>> are
>> >>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of
>> >>>>>>> questions
>> >>>>>>> when
>> >>>>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would
>> >>>>>>> rather
>> >>>>>>> not
>> >>>>>>> deal
>> >>>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> wrong
>> >>>>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I
>> >>>>>>> can
>> >>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I
>> >>>>>>> would
>> >>>>>>> give a
>> >>>>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the
>> >>>>>>> other
>> >>>>>>> day,
>> >>>>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> real
>> >>>>>>> heart of the issue.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.
>> >>>>>>> So
>> >>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>> >>>>>>> questions
>> >>>>>>> from other people in their lives.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Elizabeth
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
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>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Kaiti
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16