[nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

justin williams justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Mon Jan 27 04:47:33 UTC 2014


I like your attitude Julie.  My responses vary from white lies, to blaten
lies to truth.  I like to mess with people; mostly just because. I figure
that if you ask me a question when you have no right, then you get whatever
answer I give you. 
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

Hi Elizabeth,

Very good discussion!

I have encountered this before, and I usually come back with a quip like "I
can see just enough to get me in trouble."  Or "I can't see anything too
small or too far away."

Both of these things are true, but they are also kind of general.
Sometimes they make people ask more questions, but most of the time, the
sighted person is confused and lets me go.

I, like Arielle, don't usually mind sharing stuff about my life, my
blindness, my dog(usually the topic under discussion), but I won't always
share.  I am often late for class, and no one is going to stop me when I'm
running late.  :)

When I have a more extensive conversation with a classmate or a teacher, I
like to make them think.  One of my favorite things to tell them is that one
of my best friends is blind and is a visual learner.
They are often amazed that a blind person can be a visual learner.  It helps
them to understand the importance of Braille, since they usually believe
that we have a perfect auditory memory or something.  When I was working my
dog, I used to always explain to them that the dog does not take care of me,
tell me when to cross the street, or find my campus from all the way across
the city.  When I am with one of my blind friends, she and I like to tease
each other about being blind.
This seriously offends some sighted people...  But once they get over it,
maybe they recognize that we are comfortable with ourselves and our
blindness.

I'm not gonna lie; sometimes it's fun to mess with sighted people and
educate them.  Maybe it's the student in me, but I love to make people
think.

On 1/26/14, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi, Arielle,
>
>          You could look at whether you need take people's questions 
> too personally for, it is posssible  that, a best way to break apart 
> the isolation in which most of us are languishing is by exposure, 
> exposure, exposure and. a fair amount of laughter. Not enough of us 
> share laughter with people, showing that we can and do often laugh at 
> ourselves. People, we have seen over and over again, are gonna fear 
> what they don't know, what they can't relate too. Yet, if you commiit 
> to show all, talk about all, through our actions that we are like 
> sighted people, observers might be more inclined to accept us, or, at 
> least treat us like normal eating, shitting, sometimes wanting people.
> for today, Car
> 408-209-3239
>
> approach. It is correct that
>>people will often judge all blind people based  on their encounter 
>>with one of us. However, worrying too much about the example you are 
>>setting for all blind people can be unhealthy and counter-productive.
>>While I try to set a good example whenever I can, I also recognize 
>>that I can't always control the example I am setting nor can I control 
>>how others interpret it or what conclusions they draw from my 
>>behavior. For example, I might insist on walking around the airport 
>>independently, and some people may interpret that positively whereas 
>>others may think I am trying too hard to prove my independence. As 
>>human beings we often find ourselves with limited patience and 
>>tolerance to respond to every question or comment that is thrown at 
>>us. I try to set the best example possible while also trying not to 
>>worry too much about how I am acting.
>>
>>Arielle
>>
>>On 12/8/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Wow I am totally blind, and have therefore never had to deal with 
>> > this particular situation, I feel very similarly conflicted about 
>> > my obligation to educate the public. On the one hand, as Katie 
>> > said, it just comes with the territory of being blind/legally 
>> > blind/whatever. I recognize that, no matter what, I am an 
>> > ambassador for the whole blind community and someways because, As 
>> > ridiculous as this is, many people will base their entire 
>> > conception of blind people in general around me because I am the 
>> > only blind person they have ever met, and of course this will 
>> > completely shake the way these people treat other blind people in 
>> > the future. Also, again going back to Katie, A lot of people just 
>> > don't know any better at first but, given patients and a little bit 
>> > of time, they start to understand that blindness isn't really even 
>> > close to the life - defining disaster they originally assumed it 
>> > was. However, I also have the right to live my life as I damn well 
>> > see fit, and that means I don't always have the time or energy or 
>> > desire to answer the same questions over and over again at nausium 
>> > for people who will probably never get over there preconceived 
>> > notions of my inferiority anyhow. There comes a point where you 
>> > just want to live your life without being constantly interrupted 
>> > and
>> distracted from doing what you
>> > are trying to do. and of course The point at which this happens 
>> > it's up to each individual person. It seems to be a very
>> fine balancing act and I'll be
>> > totally honest and say I haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Kaiti Shelton 
>> >> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> Another thing I thought of when I read Suzanne's last response... 
>> >> I mentioned this in my first email, but I think it deserves a 
>> >> little more emphasis.
>> >>
>> >> The bottom line is that as blind people we are a minority.  I 
>> >> think sometimes, especially if you're a person who hangs around 
>> >> with other blind people and/or people who know you or another 
>> >> blind person a lot then we forget how clueless others can be.  My 
>> >> roommates wouldn't think of asking another blind person how they 
>> >> cook, clean, use a cane, or read braille because they see me do it 
>> >> on a daily basis.  Our parents and friends would most likely not 
>> >> either.  But for those who do not know a single person who is 
>> >> blind they just don't know, and sometimes in order to let them know we
have to educate a little bit.
>> >>
>> >> Example: One of my roommates and I met because we took an intro to 
>> >> philosophy class in our first semester.  Our professor was a total 
>> >> jerk, and liked to say rude things about people in the class... 
>> >> the Chinese students, a Muslum student, a random girl who didn't 
>> >> appear to have a minority issue for him to pick on at all, and me.  
>> >> What he liked to do, it seemed, was ask questions to students and 
>> >> belittle them, like asking the Islamic student if he had a similar 
>> >> concept of God to Christians.  When the student said his religion 
>> >> was really parallel to Christianity, and that his book was a lot 
>> >> like the bible with some extra material and different phrasing, 
>> >> the professor laughed in his face.  He asked me a stupid question 
>> >> about a mirror and did the same kind of thing one day, and my then 
>> >> roommate stopped me after class to tell me I should report the 
>> >> professor, since he was being totally out of line.  We then went 
>> >> on to study together, and found we had some other classes together 
>> >> and lived on the same floor of our dorm.  Early on she did ask 
>> >> some questions about things like JAWS, braille, etc, and had I not 
>> >> been willing to answer her questions and educate her a little, I 
>> >> would have most likely pushed her away and not gained one of my 
>> >> closest friends.  She was still a stranger to me in the beginning, 
>> >> but sometimes you have to be open to answering questions.
>> >>
>> >> My roommates have both asked questions, and both have come to the 
>> >> understanding that I am just as capable in school and in life as 
>> >> they are.  The only real difference is I do some things 
>> >> differently, and now that they understand that it is no big deal.  
>> >> Other minority groups have the same issue; deaf people educate 
>> >> about sign language and deaf culture, wheelchair users have to go 
>> >> to bat for ramps and elivators to make buildings accessible, etc.  
>> >> It's just part of the territory, but things are a lot harder if we 
>> >> don't educate a little---harder than they really need to be.  If 
>> >> someone is a creep or is too abrasive then the choice to educate 
>> >> is up to you, but when the question is harmless and the person is 
>> >> just curious a little explanation isn't that hard to give.
>> >>
>> >>> On 12/8/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> >>> Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just 
>> >>> because of our answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so 
>> >>> obviously I get these questions. My experience has been far worse 
>> >>> then questions. I spent my entire childhood being teased or rude 
>> >>> comments about my vision so frankly I would rather have someone 
>> >>> ask me a question then have a bus driver kick me off the bus 
>> >>> because he did not believe I was blind and thought my guide dog 
>> >>> was fake because I help by hand up to my face to see my coins 
>> >>> before I paid. Or all the shit I heard when I used a cane "You're 
>> >>> not blind"
>> >>>
>> >>> No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.
>> >>>
>> >>> You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they 
>> >>> were educated by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.
>> >>>
>> >>> When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or 
>> >>> "Can/t you afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no 
>> >>> problem saying I am legally blind and it cannot be corrected with 
>> >>> glasses and maybe they won't be such an ass to the next person 
>> >>> they see with a book right up against their face.
>> >>> I get the drug one because I squint.
>> >>>
>> >>> The more that people understand about the different levels of 
>> >>> blindness and how we can all do things with our accommodations, 
>> >>> the more likely they will be to hire us when we apply for jobs. 
>> >>> So yes, unfortunately it falls upon us to educate people.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>> >>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hello Steve and all,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my 
>> >>>> questions more to this email list.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great 
>> >>>> educator of the blind when this is not a role I wish to take on 
>> >>>> in my life. I would rather be able to go about living my life 
>> >>>> without the constant interruptions and interference by sighted 
>> >>>> people. I do not want to have to explain to some stranger 
>> >>>> standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the 
>> >>>> street how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the 
>> >>>> street as a blind person. I do not want to have to explain to 
>> >>>> someone whether or not I am blind or legally blind when they 
>> >>>> believe one must have some sort of eyesight to perform some sort 
>> >>>> of task, and the more eyesight one has, the more likely a person 
>> >>>> is able to perform the task. And I know this one was not 
>> >>>> mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers 
>> >>>> grabbing my arm thinking I am in need of assistance when I am 
>> >>>> just going about the normal business of my life. I just never 
>> >>>> really know what to say to these people in some two second 
>> >>>> interaction with them to be able to fully answer their 
>> >>>> curiosity, or to get them to leave me alone.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these 
>> >>>> kinds of questions from strangers, and could provide some 
>> >>>> suggestions as to how I could go about dealing with these kinds 
>> >>>> of people in my life.
>> >>>> However,
>> >>>> based on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem 
>> >>>> as though most people on this list have not encountered these 
>> >>>> kinds of questions in their lives, or believe there is some big 
>> >>>> distinction between being legally blind and blind. All I was 
>> >>>> looking for were some suggestions as to how I could go about 
>> >>>> dealing with this situation better so I do not look like some 
>> >>>> stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do 
>> >>>> not know what to say. I am sorry if this email list was the 
>> >>>> wrong place for me to pose my question.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Elizabeth
>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < 
>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Elizabeth,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a 
>> >>>>> philosophy in the NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even 
>> >>>>> aware of it.  It is completely normal for members of the public 
>> >>>>> to not understand what we believe or even know about it.  Also, 
>> >>>>> the public, in my experience, has more trouble understanding 
>> >>>>> blind people with some vision than those of us who are totally 
>> >>>>> blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better 
>> >>>>> off one is.  What I have seen is that sometimes it is harder 
>> >>>>> for people with low vision than it is for me because they are 
>> >>>>> so often told and almost forced to struggle with the little 
>> >>>>> vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other 
>> >>>>> ways.
>> >>>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision 
>> >>>>> so when they meet someone who can obviously see a little, they 
>> >>>>> are sometimes even a little suspicious.  All of this is pretty 
>> >>>>> normal.  Our philosophy is something we try to teach people, it 
>> >>>>> is not something everyone knows already.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can 
>> >>>>> determine.
>> >>>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all 
>> >>>>> of us to some degree.  Just because someone decides they are 
>> >>>>> not going to represent the blind doesn't stop them from doing 
>> >>>>> just that because the public determines how they get their 
>> >>>>> information not each of us.  We all need to keep working to 
>> >>>>> change this, but it is what it is.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best regards,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Steve Jacobson\
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke 
>> >>>>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hello All,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I even 
>> >>>>>>> answer a question that I really do not know how to answer 
>> >>>>>>> myself?
>> >>>>>>> Why
>> >>>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some 
>> >>>>>>> sort of answer with a stranger I am most likely never going 
>> >>>>>>> to see again? I do not know why strangers are asking me if I 
>> >>>>>>> am blind or legally blind except to figure out how much I can 
>> >>>>>>> see or not see.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes 
>> >>>>>>> when the NFB teaches that blind people are really no 
>> >>>>>>> different than sighted people, and with the right tools and 
>> >>>>>>> attitudes, we can do pretty much anything that a sighted 
>> >>>>>>> person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what 
>> >>>>>>> difference does it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions 
>> >>>>>>> they are trying to imply that I must have some sight because 
>> >>>>>>> how could a person be able to function without any sight. It 
>> >>>>>>> is almost like people are trying to tell me that the more 
>> >>>>>>> eyesight a person has the better off they are in life. How 
>> >>>>>>> exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions 
>> >>>>>>> when my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I 
>> >>>>>>> would rather not deal with what seems to me like some form of 
>> >>>>>>> idiotic line of thinking?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying 
>> >>>>>>> is the wrong thing, and I really do not know how to briefly 
>> >>>>>>> describe what I can and cannot see, or even wish to describe 
>> >>>>>>> it in the first place? I would give a specific example of how 
>> >>>>>>> I encountered this situation from the other day, but I am 
>> >>>>>>> afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the 
>> >>>>>>> real heart of the issue.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.
>> >>>>>>> So
>> >>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds 
>> >>>>>>> of questions from other people in their lives.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Elizabeth
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Kaiti
>> >>
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--
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National Federation
of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of
Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For
God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who
believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
John 3:16

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