[nabs-l] question about independence

Mon Mar 3 21:12:25 UTC 2014

RJ,
I beg to differ. While they m may not care which center you obtained your 
training, a sighted person close to you will care about your well being and 
independence. Doing things for someone day in and day out gets tiring.
With training someone can do it themselves. Many sighted people will be glad 
you can do it yourself, and not inconvenience them. Sometimes the help the 
person offers us is inconveneint to them, yet they do it because they do not 
feel we can do for ourselves. but with more training we show we can.

So they will care then. it transforms our image the more we can do on our 
own.

-----Original Message----- 
From: RJ Sandefur
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 3:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about independence

Sighted people do not care wheather or not you've been to CCB, LCB, or blind
inc. They want action and not just talk. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about independence

> Ol' sighty cares how we do things when considering us for employment, or 
> entering into a contract with us, or deciding whether their kids can sleep 
> over with our kids under our supervision, etc, etc, etc. I had a would-be 
> landlord deny me housing once because he didn't understand how I would 
> climb the stairs into the house, or write a check for the rent, or keep 
> the place clean unassisted by a caregiver. I think if help isn't needed, 
> it's valid to say so and then demonstrate so in hopes of creating one less 
> ignorant person to make life harder for the rest of us. Accept help if you 
> need or want it, but don't do it simply because you don't think it leaves 
> an impression on sighted folks. That seems irresponsible. .
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 3, 2014, at 11:45 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Good morning, Antonio,
>>
>>        I'm glad you shed that chip from your shoulder, too! In my 
>> experience, sighted people are most impressed by what they see and  not 
>> so much by what someone is lecturing them about regarding their 
>> particular special interest. So, I tend toward yes, accepting more help 
>> from sighted people than probably do you and your Federationist peers.
>> Also, Antonio, in the end, someone's actual means of achieving don't 
>> matter to l' Sighty. I feel the Federation loses sight of this, as well. 
>> Ol' Sighty cares not how we do something. All that tends to matter to 
>> them is that we do it. If you have a sighted person help you, then so be 
>> it It doesn't matter, in the end.
>>   It's okay for me, though. I am a people person, finding it much more 
>> fulfilling to interact with people than try proving some usually abstract 
>> point about what blind people are able or unable to do. In this way, 
>> blind person can just recruit a shoulder (I walk sighted guide simply by 
>> grabbing a shoulder. This way, you glide seamlessly over that awkward 
>> moment in which ol' Sighty and you try to figure out who is supposed to 
>> grab who's arm.) I appreciate how you said people need to travel in 
>> whichever way works best for them. It is not only about blinks. There are 
>> others inhabiting this earth, with their own special interests and 
>> philosophies. I feel like those wrapped up in Federationism lose sight of 
>> this reality.
>> loving, for today, Car08:58 AM 3/3/2014, you wrote:
>>> Our opinion matters a great deal, since we are a Community that talks 
>>> about independence as a core of our philosophy.
>>>
>>> What I think about another's approach to independence, and how they deal 
>>> with the public will very likely determine how we interact, how close 
>>> friends we are, and how highly we might regard that person in our social 
>>> groups.
>>> This is an interesting question that bears no right answer. We may 
>>> choose to refuse help in such a way that puts people off. That is okay 
>>> at times if that is how we feel at the time, as Arielle said. If I feel 
>>> like taking someone's arm to deal with navigating through tight 
>>> quarters, that is my own call to me. Instead, if I feel like dealing 
>>> with the same environment on my own, independently if you will, someone 
>>> will have a perception of that.
>>>
>>> As a matter of fact, someone will have a perception of everyone know 
>>> matter what they do. If one day I want to deal with airports on my own, 
>>> and another day I choose to accept more assistance, there is nothing 
>>> wrong with my approach on either day.
>>>
>>> If sometimes a stranger grabs me by the jacket to guide me down the 
>>> stairs, you bet I will do something about it. I don't want to lose my 
>>> footing, and tumble down because this person is dragging me over. I may 
>>> not want help, need help, and so I will refuse it, turn it down, and 
>>> will do so very firmly.
>>>
>>> If someone offers me to guide me by the cane, yes by the king, pulling 
>>> it I had of me, I may turn this scenario into a great opportunity to 
>>> educate someone about proper techniques of sighted guide.
>>>
>>> Most likely I will ask to follow the person by the elbow not because 
>>> they need to learn something, but because I need to get somewhere, and 
>>> quick.
>>> Most times I will be put off, and endangered by losing control of how I 
>>> interact during travel, and keep myself safe.
>>>
>>> But there have been a handful of times when I was cool with traveling a 
>>> short distance guided by the cane direction.
>>>
>>> If there are no steps to worry about, and I am not worried about safety, 
>>> I will be guided by Cain.
>>>
>>> Mostly when this happened, there work some cultural differences between 
>>> me, and the guy.
>>>
>>> Consider the Muslim woman who could not have contact with males. She 
>>> offered to help me, and explained her situation. She guided me by Cain, 
>>> and I got to where I was just fine. And she wasn't in any spiritual 
>>> trouble from that.
>>>
>>> We are always being observed by the public. How we behave matters. How 
>>> we feel very safe from time to time, they today, situation to situation. 
>>> It changes with time also.
>>>
>>> But even if you have a day when everyone is doing what you think is the 
>>> right way to interact with the blind, you could be annoyed with 
>>> something or another.
>>>
>>> I remember one day traveling in the city, and being asked over, and 
>>> over, and over by different people at different places at different 
>>> times if I needed help getting somewhere. I wasn't sure how to think 
>>> about this after the 20th time. Do I look that lost?
>>>
>>> That day, I had the choice to be stern, say no, and turn away from help, 
>>> or I could smile, say no, and continue on.
>>>
>>> I'm glad I chose to take the chip off my shoulder that day.
>>>
>>> Antonio
>>>
>>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 2:15 PM, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > If you didn't need his help and didn't really want it, then what you 
>>> > did is fine. Why does our opinion matter?
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> >> On Mar 1, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Mohamed <malhajamy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi all, I have a question about independence.  Earlier, someone 
>>> >> brought up the what is independence thread.  That reminds me of 
>>> >> something.  So, this friday, I was in a cab.  I go to school by 
>>> >> taking cabs.  So, this driver in  particular, he wanted to help me 
>>> >> with practically everything.  Putting my stuff in, opening the cab's 
>>> >> door, getting into the school, everything.  This is what I'm 
>>> >> wondering.  When is it best to not accept help, and when should I ask 
>>> >> for help? In this situation, should I have accepted help? Or should I 
>>> >> have done what I did, and politely said no?
>>> >> Thanks.
>>> >>
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